Examining Fritz's Notes Again

[Jon G. Tidd]

Tommy,

If I had to guess, I'd say the name was Lee Harvey Oswald.

That's a guess.

No matter, there may have been two Lee Harvey Oswalds.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Oh please, please, please do not let this thread degenerate into a Harvey and Lee feud.

[Robert Prudhomme]

here's what i think:

Claims 2nd floor coke when

Off came in

To 1st floor had lunch

Out with Bill Shelley in front

the salient part of fritz's notes mean: Oswald claims he had lunch on the first floor and then was out in front of the TSBD with Bill Shelley (on the steps) . The important part (based on what you'll see next) is the last line.

then add this to it:

Mr. BALL - Who was with you?

Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me...

Mr. BALL - What was that last name?

Mr. LOVELADY - Stanton.

Mr. BALL - What is the first name?

Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley.

Mr. BALL - And Stanton's first name?

Mr. LOVELADY - Miss Sarah Stanton.

Mr. BALL - Did you stay on the steps

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Were you there when the President's motorcade went by

Mr. LOVELADY – Right.

​I believe that Lovelady is cut off before he can say the words "Lee Oswald"

​this not only accounts for some of the alterations made to the Altgens photo, it also means that police evidence proves that both Lee Harvey Oswald and Bill Lovelady were at the doorway at the same time when Kennedy was shot, because they both identified Bill Shelley, who was standing in the doorway with them.

at least that's the way i see it. its' also interesting to see how punning on the words first name and last name could cause some confusion

Hi Martin

This is the most literal translation of Fritz's cryptic notes, makes just as much if not more sense than the other interpretations, and does not require shifting of any words from the original four lines. If only Fritz had used the odd punctuation mark, like a comma or semi-colon.

I, too, have looked at Lovelady's testimony, and wondered what he might have said if Ball had not cut him off so quickly. In truth, Frazier was actually directly behind Lovelady. However, Lovelady might easily have said, "Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me was Wesley Frazier, and to his right was Oswald. Oh sh*t! Did I say Oswald?"

*Hearing goes off the record as WC lawyers pummel Billy Lovelady*

Edited September 11, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[James DiEugenio]

Bob:

What about what Jeff Morley tried to do with PM!

I am glad you called him on that one.

Soemtimes, between Jean Davison and Bob Clarke etc, I really wonder about that site.

[Greg Parker]

Bob:

What about what Jeff Morley tried to do with PM!

I am glad you called him on that one.

Soemtimes, between Jean Davison and Bob Clarke etc, I really wonder about that site.

Hold that thought.

[Martin Blank]

Tommy,

If I had to guess, I'd say the name was Lee Harvey Oswald.

That's a guess.

No matter, there may have been two Lee Harvey Oswalds.

and all you have to do is follow the different colored shirts

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy,

If I had to guess, I'd say the name was Lee Harvey Oswald.

That's a guess.

No matter, there may have been two Lee Harvey Oswalds.

Jon,

Are you saying there may have been two boys who looked kinda alike and were about the same age and that they both had the legal name "Lee Harvey Oswald"? And that one of these boys was eventually murdered by Jack Ruby on 11/24/63, and the other one was his chosen doppelganger for ten or so years?

--Tommy

Edited September 11, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

Tommy,

If I had to guess, I'd say the name was Lee Harvey Oswald.

That's a guess.

No matter, there may have been two Lee Harvey Oswalds.

Jon,

Are you saying there may have been two boys who looked kinda alike and were about the same age and that they both had the legal name "Lee Harvey Oswald"? And that one of these boys was eventually murdered by Jack Ruby on 11/24/63, and the other one was his chosen doppelganger for ten or so years?

--Tommy

PLEASE.

Let's not go there.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Tommy,

If I had to guess, I'd say the name was Lee Harvey Oswald.

That's a guess.

No matter, there may have been two Lee Harvey Oswalds.

Jon,

Are you saying there may have been two boys who looked kinda alike and were about the same age and that they both had the legal name "Lee Harvey Oswald"? And that one of these boys was eventually murdered by Jack Ruby on 11/24/63, and the other one was his chosen doppelganger for ten or so years?

--Tommy

PLEASE.

Let's not go there.

My sentiments precisely, Mark.

[Steven Gaal]

Tommy,

If I had to guess, I'd say the name was Lee Harvey Oswald.

That's a guess.

No matter, there may have been two Lee Harvey Oswalds.

Jon,

Are you saying there may have been two boys who looked kinda alike and were about the same age and that they both had the legal name "Lee Harvey Oswald"? And that one of these boys was eventually murdered by Jack Ruby on 11/24/63, and the other one was his chosen doppelganger for ten or so years?

--Tommy

LETS NOT GO THERE. ,gaal

###############################

9/11: The Frame Up

Of Abdulaziz Alomari

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/9-11_alomari.html

============================

SUMMARY:

Mohamed Atta is certainly the alleged hijacker can be best proven that he had a double.

http://911review.org/JohnDoe2/Atta.html

===================================

The Atta Mystery

Double agent or multiple Attas?

http://aldeilis.net/english/the-atta-mystery-double-agent-or-multiple-attas/

#####################################

100% official proof: Doubles on 911 at work

9/11 Blogger | August 18 2006

=

People might recall that the presence of Atta and Al Shehhi in Shuckums (Hollywood, FL) on September 7, 2001 posed a big challenges to the official story. Their heavy drinking in this bar has been witnessed by many and widely reported in the media. Yet the Commission Report states that Atta travelled to Baltimore the very same day.

The last flight from Fort Lauderdale (closest airport to Hollywood) to Baltimore took off at 7.30 p.m. If one assumes that all the reportings that have him drinking longer than 7 p.m. are wrong, that he managed 12 miles to the airport in a quarter of an hour and if he was still allowed to check in at 7.15 p.m. and that the reportings of Atta and Al Shehhi in Sarasota the same evening are wrong, too, than the drinking in Shuckums so far was no definite proof that Atta had a double.

This changed now with the publication of the evidences presented in the Moussaoui trial.

http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution.html

Open the one on Atta (OG00020.02 at the bottom of the page)

Here you find now:

On Sep 7 a wire transfer from Al Shehhi's and Atta's account happened on Sep 7 at 15:58.

This pushes the beginning of the drinking to later than 4 p.m. or somehow the alleged hijackers interrupted their session which has not been reported. It gets worse.

Now open the file on Al Shhehi (open OG00020.01 at the bottom of the list). Here you find:

Al Shehhi made on Sep 7 at 16:56 in Deerfield Beach an ATM withdrawal fom Saeed Al Ghamdi's account and was taken on video.

Now, how is this possible. At the very same time he’s supposed to drink in Hollywood which is 20-25 miles away. All reports talk of Atta and Al Shehhi drinking there. If Al Shehhi arrived just after 4 p.m. in Hollywood then he would have had to leave the bar right away in order to drive back to Deerfield Beach (where by the way he was coming from) and could only have returned back to Shuckums around 5.45 p.m. having left Atta alone for 1 ½ hours. All this is in inexplainable contrast to the Atta and Al Shehhi drinking in Shuckums. And I would very much like to see the video footage of Al Shehhi!

It gets even worse.

As officially stated in the already mentioned chronology on Atta he did take Flight 2719 from Fort Lauderdale to Baltimore on September 7, 2001. According to the BTS the plane was scheduled for 3:15 p.m. Therefore Atta is on a flight to Baltimore while he is still witnessed drinking at Shuckums for hours....!

Therefore we can conclude that Atta and most likely Al Shehhi had doubles.

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

For further information on the alleged hijackers see “Tracking the alleged hijackers and their doubles”. http://www.webcrawler.com/info.wbcrwl.301.13/search/web?fcoid=417&fcop=topnav&fpid=2&cid=315714904&ad.segment=info.wbcrwl.301.13&ad.device=c&aid=d82fa957-8a33-4601-a31c-043554d2049f&ridx=1&q=september+911+%E2%80%9CTracking+the+alleged+hijackers+and+their+doubles%E2%80%9D.&ql=&ss=t

Edited September 12, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Robert Prudhomme]

God, this forum has gone down hill in the last year.

[Greg Parker]

God, this forum has gone down hill in the last year.

You know what the answer is, but the people running this show don't agree.

[Martin Blank]

one must go whither the different colored shirts and the facts lead

[Vanessa Loney]

I'm trying to figure out how an "investigation" would change Baker's personal testimony. If Baker could not even be relied on to state where he encountered Oswald what does that say for the rest of Baker's statement? Sort of makes you wonder how many other witnesses observations had to be straightened out by the "investigation". It reminds me of at least one shooting witnesses who stated that he had heard five or six shots and was told that simply could not be true since there were only three.

I'm astonished that Fritz has made this statement to the WC without apparently realising what it means. It means that either:

1. Baker is lying; or

2. Baker couldn't tell the difference between meeting a man on the front steps of TSBD and meeting a man in the second floor lunch room; or

3. The DPD massaged Baker's statements so that they turned from an encounter on the TSBD steps into an encounter in the second floor lunch room.

All of these three possibilities are disastrous testimony for the DPD and their case against Oswald. But Fritz seems to be confirming at least one of them.

[Larry Hancock]

Thanks for carrying on with that Vanessa, regardless of the alternative it seems to be a pretty stunning indictment of the only DPD officer to actually encounter Oswald at the scene. If the investigation does

not support Baker then you have to wonder about using him as a source at all...or equally, about the investigation itself. And of course nobody on the WC staff pursued that rather obvious point.