Paul Trejo Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Michael Clark said: Paul, what about the prior drama, in the prior sentence: "George kept LHO busy in one room chatting, as Jeanne nervously searched for clues from room to room. When she finally found LHO's rifle, she shouted out -- "He has a rifle!" ---------------------- Marina was showing Jeanne around the house. Jeanne wasn't sneaking around, playing detective while the other three were in the living room. Cheers, Mike Michael, I derive that drama from George DeMohrenschildt's manuscript, I'm a Patsy! I'm a Patsy! (1977) George's drama is also supported by Volkmar Schmidt (who is named in George's manuscript) in a YouTube video for the PBS Frontline special, "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?" Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cLvrkqZxdc This video is nearly 3 hours long, so just skip to minute 55:50 and watch until about 58:10, or for about 2.5 minutes. There you'll see George DM and Volkmar Schmidt in this unfolding drama. In that video, Volkmar Schmidt confesses that he worked overtime at an engineer's party to convince Lee Harvey Oswald that General Walker was "as bad as Hitler." This is also cited in George's manuscript. The drama arises like with a historical context -- the General Walker shooting occurred on 4/10/1963, and it was the buzz of Dallas all week. Then we move to a question -- why did George and Jeanne DM visit the Oswalds after 10 PM on 4/13/1963, bang the door to get them out of bed, so that Jeanne could take a "tour" of their apartment? Instantly after Jeanne "found" the Oswald rifle and shouted it out to George, George DM asked Lee Oswald, "Lee, did you take that potshot at General Walker?" The context is clear to me. It puzzles me why it isn't clear to everybody. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited February 24, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) Paul Trejo wrote: "Instantly after Jeanne "found" the Oswald rifle and shouted it out to George, George DM asked Lee Oswald, "Lee, did you take that potshot at General Walker?" Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, then, what did you do? Go into some other part of the house? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. It wasn't very much. I believe it was only two rooms. And then I returned back, and told George do you know what they have in the closet? I came back to the room, where George and Lee were sitting and talking. I said, do you know what they have in the closet? A rifle. And started to laugh about it. And George, of course, with his sense of humor--Walker was shot at a few days ago, within that time. He said, "Did you take a pot shot at Walker by any chance?" Edited February 24, 2017 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said: Michael, I derive that drama from George DeMohrenschildt's manuscript, I'm a Patsy! I'm a Patsy! (1977) George's drama is also supported by Volkmar Schmidt (who is named in George's manuscript) in a YouTube video for the PBS Frontline special, "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?" In that video, Volkmar Schmidt confesses that he worked overtime at an engineer's party to convince Lee Harvey Oswald that General Walker was "as bad as Hitler." This is also cited in George's manuscript. The drama arises like with a historical context -- the General Walker shooting occurred on 4/10/1963, and it was the buzz of Dallas all week. Then we move to a question -- why did George and Jeanne DM visit the Oswalds after 10 PM on 4/13/1963, bang the door to get them out of bed, so that Jeanne could take a "tour" of their apartment? Instantly after Jeanne "found" the Oswald rifle and shouted it out to George, George DM asked Lee Oswald, "Lee, did you take that potshot at General Walker?" The context is clear to me. It puzzles me why it isn't clear to everybody. Regards, --Paul Trejo The WC testimony is an historical document. It was created to cover the trail of the assassins. George De Mohrenshildts later "Drama" is used to further convict LHO, and cover the trail of the assassins. Using The WC testimony is appropriate, however you want to argue. Using the latter day fiction of George De Mohrenschildt to exonerate him, while convicting Oswald, is dubious. Posing fiction as fact, and purporting to be a researcher is lower than dubious. Cheers, Michael Edited February 24, 2017 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 28 minutes ago, Michael Clark said: Paul Trejo wrote: "Instantly after Jeanne "found" the Oswald rifle and shouted it out to George, George DM asked Lee Oswald, "Lee, did you take that potshot at General Walker?" Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, then, what did you do? Go into some other part of the house? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. It wasn't very much. I believe it was only two rooms. And then I returned back, and told George do you know what they have in the closet? I came back to the room, where George and Lee were sitting and talking. I said, do you know what they have in the closet? A rifle. And started to laugh about it. And George, of course, with his sense of humor--Walker was shot at a few days ago, within that time. He said, "Did you take a pot shot at Walker by any chance?" Michael, You're pointing out that my clause, that Jeanne shouted out from the other room that Oswald had a rifle, does not match the WC testimony of George DM. Perhaps I remembered incorrectly, so I hereby review the WC testimony again. Because there are three different accounts of that same event. George, Jeanne and Marina. And in fact, they all testified TWICE about this incident. Furthermore, Marina and Jeanne spoke Russian natively, so English wasn't their preferred language. Anyway, here's why I remembered that George had SEEN the rifle. Here's what Marina testified: Mr. RANKIN. When the De Mohrenschildts came to the house and you showed them the rifle, did you say anything about it? Mrs. OSWALD. Perhaps I did say something to him, but I don't remember. Mr. RANKIN. Did you say anything like "Look what my crazy one has done? Bought a rifle" or something of that kind? Mrs. OSWALD. This sounds like something I might say. Perhaps I did. Now, somebody reading that might come away thinking that George DM had actually seen the rifle. That's what confused me. Yet those words were not the words of Marina, but the words of Mr. Rankin. Marina Oswald, with her ESL, was responding to when George and Jeanne came to the Oswald house and witnessed Lee's rifle (either by eye or ear). Then, again, we have the WC testimony of Jeanne De Mohrenschildt. Let's look at it here: Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. And I believe from what I remember George sat down on the sofa and started talking to Lee, and Marina was showing me the house that is why I said it looks like it was the first time, because why would she show me the house if I had been there before? Then we went to another room, and she opens the closet, and I see the gun standing there. I said, what is the gun doing over there? Mr. JENNER. You say--- Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. A rifle. Mr. JENNER. A rifle, in the closet? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. In the closet, right in the beginning. It wasn't hidden or anything. Mr. JENNER. Standing up on its butt? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Mr. JENNER. I show you Commission Exhibit 139. Is that the rifle that you saw? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. It looks very much like it... Mr. JENNER. I say your attention was arrested, not only, because when the closet door was opened by Marina you saw the rifle in the closet--you saw a rifle? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Mr. JENNER. That surprised you, first? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Of course... Mr. JENNER. Now, when you saw that, and being surprised, were you concerned about it? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I just asked what on earth is he doing with a rifle? Mr. JENNER. What did she say? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. She said, "Oh, he just loves to shoot." I said, "Where on earth does he shoot? Where can he shoot?" When they lived in a little house. "Oh, he goes in the park and he shoots at leaves and things like that." .... Mr. JENNER. Didn't you think it was strange that a man would be walking around a public park in Dallas with a high-powered rifle like this, shooting leaves? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't know it was a high-powered rifle. I had no idea. I don't even know right now. Is it a high-powered rifle? ... Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, then, what did you do? Go into some other part of the house? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. It wasn't very much. I believe it was only two rooms. And then I returned back, and told George do you know what they have in the closet? I came back to the room, where George and Lee were sitting and talking. I said, do you know what they have in the closet? A rifle. And started to laugh about it. And George, of course, with his sense of humor -- Walker was shot at a few days ago, within that time. He said, "Did you take a pot shot at Walker by any chance?" And we started laughing our heads off, big joke, big George's joke. And later on, according to the newspapers, he admitted that he shot at Walker. Mr. JENNER. Now, when George made that remark in the presence of Lee Oswald, "Did you take a pot shot at Walker?" Did you notice any change---- Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. We were not looking for any. I wish I would know. Mr. JENNER. Please--I want only your reaction. Your husband has told me his. You noticed nothing? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I didn't notice anything. So, reading Jeanne's description here, I agree that her testimony matches George's in its essentials, though it adds lots more detail. HOWEVER, George, Jeanne and Marina were all called back to testify AGAIN about this incident, because of apparent discrepancies in their testimony. I'll cover that in a subsequent post, otherwise this post will get too big. Thanks for pressing for detail, Michael. This is a very poorly perused clue in the General Walker shooting in April 1963. Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Michael Clark said: The WC testimony is an historical document. It was created to cover the trail of the assassins. George De Mohrenshildts later "Drama" is used to further convict LHO, and cover the trail of the assassins. Using The WC testimony is appropriate, however you want to argue. Using the latter day fiction of George De Mohrenschildt to exonerate him, while convicting Oswald, is dubious. Posing fiction as fact, and purporting to be a researcher is lower than dubious. Cheers, Michael Michael, I'm making every effort to be careful about the WC testimony -- but it is so enormous, and there are discrepancies inside it, that sometimes I do make an error now and then. It is also true that I have a specific CT that I am working on -- and I have not yet found a single person on this Forum who agrees with me fully enough to help me with it -- so I need to fight for every inch. That said -- your text above suggests that you have a CT, and that it is very closer to Jim Garrison's. You use his phrase, "On the Trail of the Assassins." In other words, it is probably some variation of a CIA-did-it CT, right? IMHO, the only way that the WC was used to convict LHO was to convict him as a "Lone Shooter." IMHO, LHO was guilty of participation in a plot to kill JFK, even if he was the least informed person in the plot -- the Patsy. The Big Lie of the Warren Commission was in concealing the OTHERS involved, i.e. the conspiracy involved. Who were the Others? Readers still want to know after 50 years whether the Others were on the Left or the Right. That's the key. When the stakes get too high, as they did with Jim Garrison, people jump to the "safe base," and just say the CIA-did-it. The CIA will not respond, will not sue, will not fight back and will not even comment on any CIA-did-it nonsense. George DeMohrenschildt actually called himself LHO's friend. George was convinced -- and said so to the WC -- that LHO was innocent of the JFK assassination. George was convinced that LHO was guilty of the Walker shooting -- but nobody died in that shooting. They are two separate issues entirely. As for George's manuscript, I'm a Patsy! I'm a Patsy! (1977), George did not write that as a fiction, but as a biography. It was written as HISTORY. Again -- I am saying that LHO did not kill JFK and did not even shoot at him. Yet I am also saying that LHO knew who did it. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited February 24, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 51 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said: George heard that Jeanne saw the rifle in the other room, and then he made a joke to Oswald about it. That's in the WC testimony. I'm repeating what's there, since some readers here have evidently not read the WC testimony. Regards, --Paul Trejo Your repeating a latter day Novella. If you were repeating the WC Testimony it would look like this: Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, yes, yes, yes; that is right. How could I have--my recollections are vague, of course, but how could I have said that when I didn't know that he had a gun you see. I was standing there and then Jeanne told us or Marina, you know, the incident just as I have described it, that here is a gun, you see. I remember very distinctly saying, "Did you take the potshot at General Walker?" ------------------- And any contradictions should be noted, and it would look like this: Mrs. OSWALD. By the way, several days after that, the De Mohrenschildts came to us, and as soon as he opened the door he said, "Lee, how is it possible that you missed?" ----------------------- So Paul, This thread is about witnesses to LHO's possession of a rifle. You are presenting fictionalized accounts and partial truths with a non-critical approach. According to testimony, Marina saw the gun. Marina denies that she showed Jeanne the gun, but Jeanne says that Marina did. That's it! One person! One person who was under threat of deportation, had just been given a boat-load of cash, and acquiesced to throwing her dead husband under the bus. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said: Michael, I'm making every effort to be careful about the WC testimony -- ------------------------- Again -- I am saying that LHO did not kill JFK and did not even shoot at him. Yet I am also saying that LHO knew who did it. Regards, --Paul Trejo Paul, you ask a few questions above. I have no problem answering them. However, that is all off topic for this thread. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 On 2/13/2017 at 8:41 PM, Paul Trejo said: For the WC, the only undisputed eye-witnesses were Marina and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt. (George DM heard Jeanne DM exclaim when she saw it, but he was too shocked to walk over to see it -- instead he made a nervous joke to LHO.) After that, we have Ron Lewis in New Orleans during the summer of 1963, as he claims (1993) he saw LHO carrying it one day. Regards, --Paul Trejo Paul, it's clear that you are aware of the facts. In fact, your above post, to some extent, truncated my search. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Was LHO considered a suspect in the Walker shooting long after the fact? or was it at the time of the shooting itself, as it was being investigated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, B. A. Copeland said: Was LHO considered a suspect in the Walker shooting long after the fact? or was it at the time of the shooting itself, as it was being investigated? If you ask me, no. Because LHO didn't own a rifle, and no-one decided that he owned a rifle until after the assassination. If he did have a Hiddell ID card on him when arrested, then the person who gave him that card and the person who forged the money order and received the rifle are the only ones to know that he would, in the future, own an MC rifle. If Walker had any role in that, then Walker "considered" Hiddell a suspect at the time of the shooting. Who that would become was a wild card at hat point. AFAIK there were, officially, no leads on the Walker shooting before the JFKA. That rifle was a wild card for the planners. Frazier could have ended up as the patsy if there was not a more convenient schlep to lay the accusation on. The pristine bullet was also a wild card for the planners. Whoever planted that bullet had a few others in his pocket, depending on how things shook-out. There must have been other guns around the plaza in close proximity to other potential patzies. There was probably a pristine Mauser bullet in that pocket for at least the one Mauser rifle that was accidently found and presented at the TSBD. This raises a good question... When was the walker bullet recovered and entered into the evidence of an investigation? I'll have to dig for that. Cheers, Michael Edited February 24, 2017 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 46 minutes ago, B. A. Copeland said: Was LHO considered a suspect in the Walker shooting long after the fact? or was it at the time of the shooting itself, as it was being investigated? B.A. Copeland, According to General Walker's personal papers, he knew that LHO was his shooter the weekend after the shooting. Walker said that someone in a higher office told him that Oswald was caught and then released before midnight. Walker was convinced that it was LHO. Regards Paul Trejo Edited February 24, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 25, 2017 Author Share Posted February 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said: B.A. Copeland, According to General Walker's personal papers, he knew that LHO was his shooter the weekend after the shooting. Walker said that someone in a higher office told him that Oswald was caught and then released before midnight. Walker was convinced that it was LHO. Regards Paul Trejo Paul, I believe that you have said that you have read Walker's papers. If you have read the papers cited above, can you say whether those papers were generated at the time of the shooting, in the period between the shooting and the JFKA, or afterwards? Cheers, Michael PS. Do any papers indicate knowledge of LHO prior to the Walker shooting? If so, were they generated before or after the JFKA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) On 2/24/2017 at 6:17 PM, Michael Clark said: Paul, I believe that you have said that you have read Walker's papers. If you have read the papers cited above, can you say whether those papers were generated at the time of the shooting, in the period between the shooting and the JFKA, or afterwards? Cheers, Michael PS. Do any papers indicate knowledge of LHO prior to the Walker shooting? If so, were they generated before or after the JFKA? Michael, Walker's papers as collected at the University of Texas at Austin -- 90 boxes worth -- are an under-explored mine. These boxes have still not been cataloged -- after more than a decade of languishing in the warehouse. However, I did go through them for two semesters in an independent study with historian H.W. Brands in 2012 and 2013. I got more than a thousand samples from them, and interested Gary Mack in them, and shared them also with Jeff Caufield, who also shared with me artifacts from General Walker that I had never seen before (since there are multiple caches of Walker archives around the USA, and apparently Jeff has seen them all). I can say that I have not YET found any actual material evidence of Walker's activity of tracking Oswald in 1963 before the JFK assassination. I mean -- I have documents written after the JFK assassination in which Walker claims to be aware of Oswald soon after the Walker shooting. Here's one to Senator Frank Church -- perhaps you haven't seen it yet -- though I've posted it nearly a dozen times on the Forum: http://www.pet880.com/images/19750623_EAW_to_Frank_Church.pdf There is much more than this, I assure you -- but it all appears after the JFK assassination. Yet I am convinced that: (1) the archives of Walker have been scrubbed clean; and (2) when we finally get some real researchers into General Walker, somebody will find the smoking gun. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited February 26, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 7 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Michael, Walker's papers as collected at the University of Texas at Austin -- 90 boxes worth -- are an under-explored mine. These boxes have still not been cataloged -- ....... Here's one to Senator Frank Church -- perhaps you haven't seen it yet -- though I've posted it nearly a dozen times on the Forum: http://www.pet880.com/images/19750623_EAW_to_Frank_Church.pdf There is much more than this, I assure you -- but it all appears after the JFK assassination. Regards, --Paul Trejo Paul, you would think that the WC and police would have not failed to dig this up and put it in front of the commission; not THIS document obviously, but this information. Do you know if this information came up in commission proceedings? Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, Michael Clark said: Paul, you would think that the WC and police would have not failed to dig this up and put it in front of the commission; not THIS document obviously, but this information. Do you know if this information came up in commission proceedings? Cheers, Michael Michael, The closest that the WC came to reporting this sort of information is noting specific newspaper clippings cited, namely: 1. The German newspaper, Deutsche Nationalzeitung, Friday 29 November 1963 issue. This issue said -- days before Marina Oswald said -- that LHO was General Walker's shooter. The article was from an interview of General Walker that occurred about 18 hours after the JFK murder. 2. The Houston Post of Saturday 24 November 1963, which passed on the rumor that LHO could have been the shooter of General Walker, without stating the source of the rumor. 3. The National Enquirer issue of 17 May 1964, which suggested that Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby were the two shooters who tried to assassinate General Walker. Again, the publisher refused to disclose the source of the rumor. IMHO, the source of all three rumors was General Walker himself. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited February 27, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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