A Couple of Real Gems from the "Harvey and Lee" Website

[Michael Clark]

Sandy, I apreciate your tenacity on this subject more than you know. Yet, your energy is spent on a couple of people who feed on and thrive on kinetic, downward negetavistic gravity and, especially in the case of Mark Henceroth, er, I mean Michael Walton , are just bitter about the cost of the book. That bitterness, and hurt, just justifies his not having read the book that he spends soooo much time crying about. Even the free, painless, reading of the WCR is beyond his wherewithal to address on this subject. Lastly, Mark Henceroth, er, I mean, Michael Walton, just has a bone for you.

Sandy, your researching and presentation abilities are of great value to the JFKA research community. You are wasting, IMO, your efforts, debating trolls and committed sysyphian task-drivers.

It is clear that Oswald was doubled and replicated for a task and tasks, including the JFKA. Armstrong covered the full length and breadth of that situation. You don't need to defend every square foot.

Cheers, Sandy, 

Michael

Edited September 27, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Michael,

There were Oswald impersonator(s) after Oswald's return from Russia. This is a widely accepted fact. And so if these impersonator(s) conflict with State Secret, then SS is defective. (I doubt they do conflict.)

Jim Hargrove and John Armstrong believe that these impersonators were LEE. I'm not sure of that myself. But regardless of who the impersonators were, the fact that they existed shows that they didn't conflict with SS.

 

Sandy,

In the summer of 1963, while Lee HARVEY Oswald was in New Orleans getting himself sheep-dipped as a Commie in preparation for his role of patsy in the assassination of JFK, LEE Harvey Oswald was in the Dallas area, driving what sure sounds like Ruth Paine’s car week after week to Cliff Shasteen’s barber shop.

Mr. JENNER. You have a distinct recollection that on occasions when this man came into your shop for a haircut, he drove an automobile up to your shop?

Mr. SHASTEEN. He drove that there 1955, I think it's a 1955, I'm sure it's a 1955 Chevrolet station wagon. It's either blue and white or green and white it's two-toned--I know that. Now, why I say--why I take it for granted that Mrs. Paine was with him when he come to the grocery store--I do remember he wasn't driving when they would come to the grocery store, there would be a lady driving and I'm assuming that that was Mrs. Paine, because like I say, I have been--I have never been close enough to her and knew it, to speak to her, but she trades at the service station where I do and I saw her in there and I never did pay any attention to her and I saw her passing, met her in the road in the car and those things. (WC X, 317)

In July, while Harvey was working at the Reilly Coffee Company in New Orleans, Marshall Hicks, an employee of Western Union, delivered several telegrams to Lee Harvey Oswald at 1501 W. 7th, in Fort Worth.  Dorothy Marcum, who dated Jack Ruby in mid-1963, was sure that Oswald worked for Ruby in June and July of 1963, while Harvey was still in New Orleans.

Harvey Oswald famously possessed a Texas automobile driver learner’s permit, but Lee Oswald appears to have had a valid license, which he needed to drive, for example, to Shasteen’s barber shop and to do errands for Ruby.   When Jack Ruby's Oldsmobile needed work, mechanic Robert Roy said it was Lee Oswald who delivered and picked up the car, not once, but several times.

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Jim Hargrove

[Jim Hargrove]

12 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

....especially in the case of Mark Henceroth, er, I mean Michael Walton...

Michael,

Who is Mark Henceroth?

[Michael Clark]

7 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Michael,

Who is Mark Henceroth?

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=4163.5;wap2

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/profile/6325-mark-henceroth/

perhaps "Michael Walton" knows....

 

..............

from http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/05/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-942.html

 

JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 942)

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

The only thing Martin Hinrichs did is to slide JFK to the right in that photo [below]. That's all. Nothing else. Big deal.


So, what is that supposed to prove? Especially since we all know that JFK was sitting three inches higher than Connally.

Connally is also much more "scrunched up" in that awful jump seat that he had to sit on during the Dallas motorcade, giving the false impression that JBC was smaller than he really was.

Just take a look at this photograph of the SS-100-X limousine and imagine the large frame of John Connally sitting on this jump seat. Heck, he was practically sitting on the car's floorboard:



MARK HENCEROTH SAID:

Yeah, I don't see why we need a 3D animation at all really. This is easy stuff. Apparently no professional 3D expert is willing to take the job on of showing us exactly where that shot came from. Too bad, as I am sure we would all like to know how it ends up.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:.......
 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Sandy Larsen]

11 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

You don't need to defend every square foot.

LOL, of course you are right Michael. I think I just needed someone to grab me by the shoulders and shake me a bit to bring me to my senses. I'll try not to waste any more time on trolls, ignorati, and other lost causes.

Thanks for the kind words, BTW.

[Michael Clark]

2 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

LOL, of course you are right Michael. I think I just needed someone to grab me by the shoulders and shake me a bit to bring me to my senses. I'll try not to waste any more time on trolls, ignorati, and other lost causes.

Thanks for the kind words, BTW.

:Thumbs-up: to you, my friend!

[Sandy Larsen]

37 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

 

 

 

 

 

Jim,

This incident begs the question, why did the Dept. of Public Safety ((DPS) have in their hands a Lee Harvey Oswald drivers license? It seems the answer could be only this: Some authority, for example a police officer, gained possession of the license and turned it over to the DPS so that they could bring up the records of the holder of the license. Though it seems odd to me that the authority would need to turn the card in. Why not just give the license number (rather than the card itself) to the DPS and request info?

Could it be that that LEE was actually arrested coming out the back door of the theater and his drivers license confiscated?

Any thoughts?

 

[Michael Walton]

Bill Simpich and his outstanding State Secret is the only well documented  story about Oswald.

I'm  sorry to say that it completely  blows HL out of  the  water because it shows there is no way to fit its narrative  into any part of SS. 

It further shows that it negates the Hungarian clone part of HL.

The real Michael Walton

Edited September 27, 2017 by Michael Walton

[Jim Hargrove]

7 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Jim,

This incident begs the question, why did the Dept. of Public Safety ((DPS) have in their hands a Lee Harvey Oswald drivers license? It seems the answer could be only this: Some authority, for example a police officer, gained possession of the license and turned it over to the DPS so that they could bring up the records of the holder of the license. Though it seems odd to me that the authority would need to turn the card in. Why not just give the license number (rather than the card itself) to the DPS and request info?

Could it be that that LEE was actually arrested coming out the back door of the theater and his drivers license confiscated?

Any thoughts?

Sandy,

The fact that there were two separate DPD reports indicating “Lee Harvey Oswald” was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theatre is pretty hard to ignore—or explain.  That’s a pretty strange mistake to make.  Butch Burroughs told author James Douglass that he saw two arrests in the theater, including that of an Oswald “lookalike” in the balcony, but we have to ask why on earth would he wait nearly half a century to let us know that significant detail.  Douglass says he asked Burroughs directly if he had seen any other arrests in the theater that day, and Burroughs said he had never been asked that question before.

The fact is, though, that Burroughs told the Warren Commission that he thought Oswald must have immediately gone up to the balcony.  Whatever we conclude about Burroughs’ tardy revelation, it is pretty undeniable that he was there and we weren’t.

Deputy Sheriff Bill Courson was “reasonably satisfied” that he met Lee Harvey Oswald coming down the balcony stairs.  Lt. Cunningham and Detective J.B. Toney began questioning the young man on the staircase.  John wrote that at this point, “an unknown person, who identified himself as the ‘manager on duty,’ said the young man had been in the theater since 12:05 PM. The unidentified ‘manager on duty’ may have been an accomplice who provided [LEE] Oswald with a much needed alibi, as theater manager John Callaghan left the theater before the police arrived (Julia Postal, Butch Burroughs, and the projectionist were the only employees left in the theater). The young man was released. Sgt. Stringer, standing below in the alley, asked Hill if the suspect had been arrested. Hill looked back into the balcony area and said, "No, we haven't got him." 

Bernard Haire then saw the young man being led out the back door of the theater, and he thought for decades he had witnessed the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald. To me, this all suggests that LEE Oswald’s actions were designed to lead police to the Texas Theater, where Harvey was waiting with those half dollar bills to meet a contact that never materialized.  I’m not sure that John is convinced of this.

I can only speculate why a driver’s license for Lee Harvey Oswald was returned to the Texas DPS.  It seems far more interesting to ask why there was one in the first place.

[Michael Walton]

It may be a good idea for HL supporters here to start  looking at how SS really hurts the HL story.

One powerful reason  is if the planners impersonated  LHO and Duran they would have known about the HL clone since it involves secret agent work.

To protect the plan they would have removed  the clone BEFORE 11/22. Because  there's  absolutely  nothing  in  the  record  this proves completely  that  the  HL clone never  existed in  the  first  place.

IMO cased closed  for  HL.

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, Michael Walton said:

It may be a good idea for HL supporters here to start  looking at how SS really hurts the HL story.

One powerful reason  is if the planners impersonated  LHO and Duran they would have known about the HL clone since it involves secret agent work.

To protect the plan they would have removed  the clone BEFORE 11/22. Because  there's  absolutely  nothing  in  the  record  this proves completely  that  the  HL clone never  existed in  the  first  place.

IMO cased closed  for  HL.

You’re kidding, right?  The infamous Ralph Leon Yates hitch-hiking incident involving a second Oswald occurred on November 20, capping off several weeks of a second Oswald involved in setting up the patsy.  John makes an excellent case that Lee Oswald was involved in setting up Harvey on the day of the assassination.

What I’ve read of SS so far seems excellent… beautifully written and researched.  But some of the conclusions mystify me.

First of all, I don’t see an “uncanny” similarity at all between Oswald and Webster.

Second, I don’t think the evidence shows at all that Oswald was just “a spy in his own mind.”  We can discuss that much more if you’d like to.

Third, although SS states that “Oswald’s documented weight for the last seven years of his life varied between 131-140 pounds,” we have to ask why his final USMC paperwork, including a medical report under the heading “MEASUREMENTS AND OTHER FINDINGS” indicates his weight was 150 lbs. and his height was 71” (5’11”).  His discharge paperwork indicates the same thing.

 

 

In fact, if you averaged out the various reports of Oswald’s height, almost always either 5’9” or 5’11” in the last years of his life, you would get 5’10”, the same height as Webster.  And at 150 lbs, Oswald would be only 15 lbs lighter than Webster, hardly a massive difference.  These don’t strike me as very strong markers.

And what about that infamous 10/10/63 CIA memo indicating that Lee Henry Oswald is “FIVE FEET TEN INCHES, ONE HUNDRED SIXTY FIVE POUNDS, LIGHT BROWN WAVY HAIR, BLUE EYES”?  Is this really to make us think of Webster instead of Oswald?  

More important to me in this document is that it gives Lee H. Oswald a clean bill of political health, indicating that Russia had a "maturing effect" on Oswald.  Is it just a coincidence that the FBI cancelled the Wanted Notice on Oswald within hours of the same time as the CIA memo?

 

This is the setup of the designated patsy by American Intel, clearing the way for the Dallas assassination.  I sincerely doubt it was nothing more than a mole hunt.

[Sandy Larsen]

12 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I can only speculate why a driver’s license for Lee Harvey Oswald was returned to the Texas DPS.  It seems far more interesting to ask why there was one in the first place.

I've already accepted that there were two Oswald's, so I'm not surprised that an Oswald drivers license existed. That's the reason I'm more interested in why the license would have been given to the DPS.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

10 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Second, I don’t think the evidence shows at all that Oswald was just “a spy in his own mind.”

Jim,

Does State Secret claim that Oswald was a spy "in his own mind?"

If it does, I probably won't bother reading it. I already disagree with the barium meal hypothesis.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

8 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Jim,

Does State Secret claim that Oswald was a spy "in his own mind?"

If it does, I probably won't bother reading it. I already disagree with the barium meal hypothesis.

 

Yes.  The phrase is used three times in Chapter 1.  The first time it is attributed to Norman Mailer.  The second time it is used in a paragraph suggesting Oswald exaggerated his own height on Marine Corps records and includes this:

It doesn’t prove that Oswald was a government spy. It indicates that Oswald was a spy in his own mind, and would exaggerate his own description. 

The third time is in a footnote that begins,

24 Oswald was a spy in his own mind, and would exaggerate his own description. 

[Karl Hilliard]

You do not fill out your own medical forms [height weight etc] in the military service.