Deposition of Marita Lorenz in Hunt v. Weberman (1978)

[Sandy Larsen]

BTW....

Even if Marita Lorenz's trip-to-Dallas story is true, I certainly wouldn't take that to mean the Sturgis and his associates were in on the JFK assassination plot. I mean, not the one that actually took place. First, because certainly the CIA wouldn't leave the planning to novices like Sturgis and his associates. And second, because the CIA would have used compartmentalization and the need-to-know principal in their plot. Word of the Sturgis plot could too easily have gotten out.

What I think may have happened instead is that the CIA asked certain people -- like Sturgis and Ferry -- to develop a plan to assassinate Kennedy. Unbeknownst to them, the sole purpose for doing so was to create alternate suspects for the FBI to discover and investigate in the event a real investigation were to take place.

 

[Paul Trejo]

19 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

According to the dictionary, an AGENT is a person who acts on behalf of another person or group.

That would make Frank Fiorini/Sturgis an AGENT of the CIA.

Mark,

Only on that technicality.  IMHO, a CIA agent is officially a regular, full-time employee of the CIA.

IMHO, all others are called CIA "assets".

My reasoning is that a "temporary CIA agent" is only expected to obey CIA orders when being paid.  At all other times that person is free to do whatever political shenanigans strikes their fancy.

A full-time employee of the CIA, however, is expected to follow CIA policy all the time.

Gerry Patrick Hemming once described himself and his "Interpen" team on video as mercenaries.  As such, he said he was "regularly" offered money to assassinate JFK.

I have no doubt that Gerry Patrick Hemming and Interpen were paid on a part-time basis by the CIA in order to conduct guerilla raids on Castro's Cuba.  He admitted it, and so did members of Interpen (including Loran Hall). 

But they were also free to pursue other "contracts" with other groups and agencies, precisely because they were mercenaries.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 9, 2017 by Paul Trejo
typos

[Paul Trejo]

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

BTW....

Even if Marita Lorenz's trip-to-Dallas story is true, I certainly wouldn't take that to mean the Sturgis and his associates were in on the JFK assassination plot. I mean, not the one that actually took place. First, because certainly the CIA wouldn't leave the planning to novices like Sturgis and his associates. And second, because the CIA would have used compartmentalization and the need-to-know principal in their plot. Word of the Sturgis plot could too easily have gotten out.

What I think may have happened instead is that the CIA asked certain people -- like Sturgis and Ferry -- to develop a plan to assassinate Kennedy. Unbeknownst to them, the sole purpose for doing so was to create alternate suspects for the FBI to discover and investigate in the event a real investigation were to take place.

Sandy,

My trouble with Marita Lorenz's story is that she doesn't give an exact date for it.   "Sometime after August, 1963" is what I recall.

Now, this includes the post-Mexico-City period of Lee Harvey Oswald (October 2 to October 7, 1963), so it isn't impossible.  The Mexico City Immigration records show Oswald entering and exiting Mexico "as a passenger in an automobile."  

As for the specific JFK plot involved -- and there were many -- it was certainly the plot that included Lee Harvey Oswald.

H.L. Hunt on his deathbed confession to his son, admitted that Frank Sturgis invited him to the plot, just as he admitted he was "only on the sidelines" of that plot.

It was the same plot.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Jim Hargrove]

7 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

My take on Marita Lorenz's testimony:

I just can't see any reason why Lorenz would lie about the things she testified to. Regarding her Oswald stories, I could see her disseminating disinformation on behalf of the CIA, designed to help steer attention away from the CIA as being behind the JFK assassination. But it seems to me that she wasn't doing that at all. Because in one breath she blamed Frank Sturgis for the assassination, and in the next breath she pointed out that Sturgis was CIA. She said precisely what the CIA wouldn't want her to say.

So I tend to believe her testimony.

But what I have trouble with is her identification of Lee Harvey Oswald. She saw Oswald while he was still in Russia. So who she saw must have been a double who looked quite a lot like the real Oswald. Because not only was Lorenz fooled by the guy's looks, but the guy she saw was just as scrawny as the real Oswald. (In her deposition, she said Oswald looked malnourished, so much so that she thought he couldn't even hold a rifle.)

Jim H., what is your Harvey & Lee take on Lorenz's identification of Oswald? I know that you believe her early visits with him -- when HARVEY was in Russia -- had to have been with LEE. But what about the 1963 trip to Dallas? Would that have been HARVEY, given that she said he look malnourished?

 

It’s fascinating!  I’ve been thinking about this for a couple of days.  Marita said the trip happened "a week or so" before the assassination, so....

By a week or so before the assassination, the set-up of the scrawny, Russian-speaking Oswald had been in full swing for weeks.  The FBI cancelled the wanted notice on him back on Oct 9, smoothing the way for the four or five different Sports Drome Rifle Range impersonations and all the other parts of the set-up.

The TSBD records, if memory serves,  indicate that Harvey worked there every day the M-F week of Nov. 11-15.  And the WC made it OVERWHELMINGLY, ABUNDANTLY clear that he spent the weekend of Nov. 16-17 at 1026 N. Beckley.

When Commission attorney Joseph Ball asked Mrs. Roberts if Oswald went
anywhere that weekend she said, "He didn't go nowhere." Ball replied, "He stayed in
all weekend, is that right?" Mrs. Roberts answered, "Yes, sir."119

Mrs. Johnson, the owner of the rooming house, was looking forward to her
grandchildren visiting her over the weekend and was planning on letting them sleep in
Oswald's room. About 6:3 0pm she entered the room and, when she saw Oswald said,
"Oh! You're not going to Irving this weekend?" Oswald said nothing and Mrs. Johnson
quickly left and closed the door to his room. The only time she saw Oswald during that
weekend was when he left his room and walked to the washateria and to the Quick
Service Grocery. 120  [H&L, p. 770]

During this same time frame (roughly 11/10/63 to 11/17/63) an Oswald is making multiple appearances at the Sport Drome Rifle Range and applying on the 15th for a job at the Southland Hotel parking garage and asking oh-so-subtly if the roof had a good view of downtown Dallas. 

The late Jack White believed that not even two Oswalds could explain the multiple, credible encounters dating back at least to Alice, Texas, and I don’t think JA would necessarily disagree.  It was a complex setup.  I can’t recall John saying anything about this, but the amount of evidence placing Harvey at 1026 Beckley the weekend before the assassination might seem a bit like overkill.  

[Michael Clark]

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

Sandy,

................

H.L. Hunt (sic) on his deathbed confession to his son, admitted that Frank Sturgis invited him to the plot, just as he admitted he was "only on the sidelines" of that plot.

It was the same plot.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

I found a citation for Paul's claim..

 

From the Rolling Stone article: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/the-last-confession-of-e-howard-hunt-20070405

"In the next few paragraphs, E. Howard goes on to describe the extent of his own involvement. It revolves around a meeting he claims he attended, in 1963, with Morales and Sturgis. It takes place in a Miami hotel room. Here's what happens:

Morales leaves the room, at which point Sturgis makes reference to a "Big Event" and asks E. Howard, "Are you with us?"

E. Howard asks Sturgis what he's talking about. Sturgis says, "Killing JFK." E. Howard, "incredulous," says to Sturgis, "You seem to have everything you need. Why do you need me?" In the handwritten narrative, Sturgis' response is unclear, though what E. Howard says to Sturgis next isn't: He says he won't "get involved in anything involving 

Bill Harvey, who is an alcoholic psycho."

After that, the meeting ends. E. Howard goes back to his "normal" life and "like the rest of the country... is stunned by JFK's death and realizes how lucky he is not to have had a direct role." 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Michael Clark]

3 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

 

I found a citation for Paul's claim..

 

From the Rolling Stone article: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/the-last-confession-of-e-howard-hunt-20070405

"In the next few paragraphs, E. Howard goes on to describe the extent of his own involvement. It revolves around a meeting he claims he attended, in 1963, with Morales and Sturgis. It takes place in a Miami hotel room. Here's what happens:

Morales leaves the room, at which point Sturgis makes reference to a "Big Event" and asks E. Howard, "Are you with us?"

E. Howard asks Sturgis what he's talking about. Sturgis says, "Killing JFK." E. Howard, "incredulous," says to Sturgis, "You seem to have everything you need. Why do you need me?" In the handwritten narrative, Sturgis' response is unclear, though what E. Howard says to Sturgis next isn't: He says he won't "get involved in anything involving 

Bill Harvey, who is an alcoholic psycho."

After that, the meeting ends. E. Howard goes back to his "normal" life and "like the rest of the country... is stunned by JFK's death and realizes how lucky he is not to have had a direct role." 

If one accepts this story, and I assume Trejo does accept it,( or perhaps he is just accepting the "Sturgis invitation" nugget) we have a CIA didit plot, including Sturgis, Maorales, Harvey, with Hunt on the sidelines. Since I don't believe the LBJ didit angle, I have to speculate where this story goes awry, and why.

If one sees it as a limited hangout (I am cherry picking) where does the story begin to mislead the reader, and why. The "why" would be to protect the living and to protect Hunt's compatriots. So who was living at the time of the confession, and who were the compatriots? 

I am seeing the diversion to Cord Meyer and LBJ as a means of leading away from (today and at the time of confession) living compatriots, Liddy and McCord. (Cord Meyer died in 2001).

All CIA: Hunt, Sturgis, McCord, Morales, Harvey. Liddy was FBI, and I have a hard time seeing him not being CIA as well; in later years he appears as a well-fledged Mockingbird on Fox News.

Walker is no-where in sight, and Trejo leads us straight into a CIA didit plot.

 

*** Cord Meyer death date edited-in

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Michael Clark

[David Andrews]

42 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

 

I found a citation for Paul's claim..

 

From the Rolling Stone article: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/the-last-confession-of-e-howard-hunt-20070405

"In the next few paragraphs, E. Howard goes on to describe the extent of his own involvement. It revolves around a meeting he claims he attended, in 1963, with Morales and Sturgis. It takes place in a Miami hotel room. Here's what happens:

Morales leaves the room, at which point Sturgis makes reference to a "Big Event" and asks E. Howard, "Are you with us?"

E. Howard asks Sturgis what he's talking about. Sturgis says, "Killing JFK." E. Howard, "incredulous," says to Sturgis, "You seem to have everything you need. Why do you need me?" In the handwritten narrative, Sturgis' response is unclear, though what E. Howard says to Sturgis next isn't: He says he won't "get involved in anything involving 

Bill Harvey, who is an alcoholic psycho."

After that, the meeting ends. E. Howard goes back to his "normal" life and "like the rest of the country... is stunned by JFK's death and realizes how lucky he is not to have had a direct role." 

One would think that Sturgis would be subordinate to Hunt, as in the past, and not empowered to offer deals to a CIA officer.  An explanation is that Sturgis is now Morales's operative, and Morales left the room so that Sturgis could communicate the offer, giving Morales deniability.  Apparently alliances with Sturgis would have been fluid, and Sturgis would again be Hunt's soldier in the Watergate break-in period.

A more plausible explanation would be that this incident did not occur, or did not happen as reported, and that Hunt went to work on the Dallas 1963 project under Dick Helms' authority.

Edited August 9, 2017 by David Andrews

[Michael Clark]

1 minute ago, David Andrews said:

One would think that Sturgis would be subordinate to Hunt, as in the past, and not empowered to make deals with a CIA officer.  An explanation is that Sturgis is now Morales's operative, and Morales left the room so that Sturgis could communicate the offer, giving Morales deniability.  Apparently alliances with Sturgis would have been fluid, and Sturgis would again be Hunt's soldier in the Watergate break-in period.

A more plausible explanation would be that this incident did not happen, or did not happen a s reported, and that Hunt went to work on the Dallas 1963 project under Dick Helms' authority.

Thanks David, I am not committed. I was just following Trejo's "Hunt is a flunkie" and the Sturgis invite angle. My working pet CT been assuming that the CIA, as an agency, didn't do it. Yet, Trejo, like he often does, steers the reader directly in the direction that he claims is incorrect (i.e. The CIA didit and the Saint-Ruthie ain't no saint)

On the other hand, my recent warming-up to the Watergate-Dallas identical DNA angle really warms up if one acepts Hunts Confession, deletes his innocence claim, and recognizes the Cord Meyer-LBJ angle as a hangout. Sorry for repeating myself, I am just developing, and clarifying this for myself.

[Douglas Caddy]

 

[David Andrews]

1 hour ago, Michael Clark said:

Thanks David, I am not committed. I was just following Trejo's "Hunt is a flunkie" and the Sturgis invite angle. My working pet CT been assuming that the CIA, as an agency, didn't do it. Yet, Trejo, like he often does, steers the reader directly in the direction that he claims is incorrect (i.e. The CIA didit and the Saint-Ruthie ain't no saint)

On the other hand, my recent warming-up to the Watergate-Dallas identical DNA angle really warms up if one acepts Hunts Confession, deletes his innocence claim, and recognizes the Cord Meyer-LBJ angle as a hangout. Sorry for repeating myself, I am just developing, and clarifying this for myself.

I believe that Hunt's confession admits that he was involved in Dallas, but totally denies the actual circumstances and drags in a combination of plausible villains, some of whom were involved in ways misrepresented by Hunt.  I think the line of descent here is: Dulles - Helms/Harvey - Hunt/Morales.

Edited August 9, 2017 by David Andrews

[Douglas Caddy]

Here is retired NYPD Detective James Rothstein's account of his contact with Frank Sturgis over the years. His account covers matters in addition to Sturgis and Marita:

 

 

FRANK STURGIS

In early March of 1961, the Essex was at its homeport in Quonset, Rhode Island, when strange things started happening. Sailors were dispatched for rifle squad practice with a Marine leading the team. Old timers (salts) stated that this had not happened since WWII; something was up. The Essex sailed to the Norfolk Virginia Navy Shipyards. On Sunday morning, all liberty and leaves were cancelled. Train cars loaded with supplies pulled up next to the ship and the supplies were loaded onto the Essex. The word was, we were sailing to Nova Scotia for special operations.

On Monday morning, as the Essex sets sail, Rothstein is ordered to Winch #2 to prepare to take on cargo. Rothstein was the winch operator with his assistant, J.C. Adams. Armed marines and sailors were posted everywhere; only authorized personnel were allowed on deck. The Essex pulls alongside a heavily guarded barge with two long cylinders on the deck. Rothstein loaded both cylinders on board and watched as they are sent below deck in the bomb elevator. The Essex then headed for the open sea in due haste. When the Essex reached the Atlantic Ocean, it made a sharp turn to starboard (right). We were going south. If the Essex was going to Nova Scotia, it would have made a turn to port (left). Something big was up.

As the Essex began to near the coast of Florida, a squadron of US Navy jets was seen approaching the Essex; they did a fly-by and prepared to land. The Essex was not designed for jets; now it had been modified to have jets land and take-off. Now we knew for sure something was going on. When it got dark, the Captain of the Essex, Captain Searcy, advised the crew that they were on a special mission. The Capt. ordered “Darken Ship and No Communication” was in effect until further notice. We were advised we were going to Cuba. General Quarters was sounded. We were going to war.

Every day after that, till three days before the Bay of Pigs invasion, we practiced for the invasion. The jets were painted white; the only markings were numbers on the planes. The numbers on the ships were painted over. The flags were taken down. When refueling and replenishing occurred, the flags would be raised as the ships started their approach and lowered again immediately.

Three days before the invasion of the Bay of Pigs, the bombing, to soften up the beach at the Bay of Pigs, started. At night we headed to the beach. The Destroyers would go closer and bombard the beach. During the day, we would be out to sea and re-supply. On the day of the invasion, at approximately 0315 hours, Rothstein was manning the helm of the Essex when Capt. Searcy came out of his quarters. Capt. Searcy informed the crew on the Quarter Deck that the President of the United States, John Kennedy, had just ordered him to stop the bombing. Capt. Searcy knew that the revolutionaries would be killed. Orders were Orders.

The next three days were spent bringing survivors and bodies on board. Rothstein again manned Winch #2 and the bodies were brought aboard in cargo nets and put in boxes and then taken to reefers. There were many cargo nets of bodies. The Bay of Pigs was lost and it would seal the fate of John Kennedy.

 One of the leaders of the revolution was CIA Operative Frank Sturgis of OP40. He was one of the operatives left behind in Cuba and was imprisoned. Sturgis and Rothstein would meet again years later. Detective Rothstein, of the New York City Police Department, would arrest Frank Sturgis when he came to New York to kill Marita Lorenz.

In the morning of October 31, 1977, Halloween day, Det. Rothstein received a call from Paul Meskil, a reporter for the New York Daily News. Meskil was beside himself. Monica Lorenz, the daughter of Marita Lorenz, had just been arrested in front of her apartment on York Avenue in possession of a loaded gun. She was to be the last line of defense for Marita. Monica was hiding in the bushes in front of the apartment building on Eighty Eighth Street and York Avenue; she was going to ambush Sturgis when he showed up to kill Marita. Meskil knows that the only two Detectives he can trust are Rosenthal and Rothstein; he knows they will not back down or be stopped. The Detectives notified members of the New York State Select Committee, their present assignment, of the call. They jump into action. They first call the arresting officer of Monica and verify that the arrest had been made for possession of a gun. They then set up a meeting with Marita Lorenz and Paul Meskil at a small restaurant on the East Side.

They all meet at the restaurant at approximately 1100 am. Marita verifies what Meskil had told the Detectives. She was very up-set, anxious, and scared. She feared for her and her children’s lives. Marita tells the Detectives that she is scheduled to testify at the House Assassination Hearings in Washington, DC, concerning the assassination of John F Kennedy.  Meskil tells the Detectives that he is in possession of a tape recording made of a conversation between Marita Lorenz and Frank Sturgis; the tape is hidden at his residence in Nassau County, New York. In the tape Sturgis tells Marita, “You know what the rules are and what happens if you talk.”  Meskil tells the Detectives to pick up the tape at his house and that his son would give the Detectives the tapes. Meskil tells the Detectives that he will be leaving for the Far East as soon as our meeting is over. At approximately 100 pm, the Detectives leave the restaurant with Marita and go to her apartment on Eighty Eighth Street and York Avenue.

When Detectives Rosenthal, Rothstein, and Marita enter the apartment, the detectives do a quick canvass of the apartment. They see 10 to 15 boxes sitting against the wall in the dining room. The rest of the day and early evening were spent interviewing Marita in preparation for the arrival of Sturgis. Marita tells the detectives that the boxes contain documentation concerning OP40, the Cuban invasion, Castro, planning for the Kennedy assassination, and other covert operations that she had knowledge of. These documents were going to be delivered to the House Assassination Hearings. The Detectives believe they have more than sufficient evidence to arrest Sturgis.

On October 31, 1977, at approximately 2130 hours Det. Mathew Rosenthal and Det. Jim Rothstein arrested Frank Sturgis when he came to assassinate Marita Lorenz, a witness to the planning of the Kennedy assassination. When Sturgis rang Marita to gain entry to the building, Rosenthal and Rothstein assumed their position. They crouched low next to the door with their guns drawn and their shields pinned to their suit jackets. When Sturgis entered the premises, Rothstein placed his gun in Sturgis’ mouth and shouted, “Police! You’re under arrest mother xxxxer; don’t move.” Sturgis mumbles, “I hope you’re Detectives.” Rosenthal had his gun put to Sturgis’ chest and identified himself as a Police Officer. The Detectives searched Sturgis. Once the Detectives knew that the scene was under control, Rothstein congratulates Sturgis for assassinating John F Kennedy. Rothstein tells Sturgis that he was present when Kennedy ordered the bombing and support to stop, just as the invasion of the Bay of Pigs began. Sturgis says, “The only way you can know that is if you were on the Essex.” Rothstein replies, “Yes, I was.” Rothstein and Sturgis shook hands; they were both professionals and were doing their job.

 Detectives Rothstein and Rosenthal questioned Sturgis for approximately two hours at Marita’s apartment before taking him for booking at the local precinct. During this time, Sturgis was very frank with the Detectives. He admitted that he was on the Grassy Knoll at Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas, when Kennedy was assassinated and that he was one of the shooters from the Grassy Knoll. The Detectives received valuable information from Sturgis. Sturgis tells the Detectives that OP40’s mandate was “to protect our country at all costs.” When Sturgis was asked why Kennedy was assassinated, he told the Detectives that there were three reasons. Number one was that Kennedy had double-crossed OP40 in the Bay of Pigs Invasion by pulling back the support. Number two was that he (Kennedy) had been told to stay away from the women, especially the Russian woman, Ellen Rometsch, because he would be compromised and jeopardize national security. Number three was that Kennedy was destroying the black community through his liberal social programs.

The second part of the questioning was about his involvement in the Watergate Break-in that occurred on June 17, 1972. Sturgis was one of the five burglars arrested by Sgt. Paul Leeper, Det. Carl Shoffler, and Det. John Barrett, of the Washington D.C. Police Department. Sturgis said it was a set-up from the start, there had to have been a rat on the inside who sold them out. Sturgis said the break-in was to get the “book” that had the names of clients who used the prostitution and pedophile ring operating out of the Democratic National Headquarters. This information was to be used to compromise both Republican and Democratic clients who used the ring. The break-in led to the fall of President Richard Nixon on August 8, 1974. President Nixon had nothing to do with the planning of the break-in. In fact he had no prior knowledge that the break-in was going to occur.

Later Shoffler would tell Rothstein that he had somebody on the inside and had received information that the break-in was going to happen. Shoffler’s tour had ended one and a half hours before he made the arrest. In 2012, Robert Merritt called retired Det. Rothstein and stated that he was Shoffler’s informant. In a book written by Robert Merritt, Watergate Exposed, he tells the tale of the break-in.

When Sturgis was taken to the local precinct the Detectives identified themselves and told the desk lieutenant that they were booking Frank Forini (Sturgis’ real name). They took Sturgis to the Detectives room and began processing the arrest. That’s when things got strange. Rosenthal advises Sturgis of his rights. Sturgis asks to make a call, which Rothstein does. He tells Rothstein to call Gaeton Fonzi, the investigator in the House Assassination Hearings. Rothstein is surprised, that a suspect would call the investigator and he is the suspect. When Fonzi answers the phone, Rothstein identifies himself and tells Fonzi that Sturgis is under arrest and wants to talk to him. Fonzi was dumbfounded. (See The Last Investigation, by Gaeton Fonzi, page 103). Shortly after the call was made the desk officer calls the Detectives to inform them that a Frank Nelson (CIA and Organized Crime in Cuba) was at the desk and was looking for Frank Sturgis, and, if in, fact Forini was Sturgis. The answer was yes. Within minutes all hell broke loose. Every big boss in the Police Department was calling to find out what happened. The Detectives finished booking Sturgis and were requested to report to the offices of John Guido and Harold Hess, two of the top bosses involved in this type of case. When the Detectives arrive at Guido and Hess’s office they are asked if they had anything eat. The Detectives said no. Hess sends out one of his staff to get a six pack of beer and sandwiches. He asks the Detectives, “Is it good and clean arrest?” The Detectives say, “Yes, it is and it is solid.” Hess replies, “Good that is all I want to know.” The Detectives advise Guido and Hess of what happened. Rosenthal and Rothstein are asked to arraign Sturgis and go home and get some rest.

At the arraignment of Frank Sturgis in Manhattan Criminal ADA Broomer is assigned to the case. The Detectives inform Broomer of the tape corroborating the allegations made by Marita and Meskil. Broomer asks the Detectives where the tape is. They inform Broomer that they will pick up the tape at Meskils residence in Nassau County on their way back to the city from their residences. Early the next morning all hell breaks loose again. Unknown members of the New York City Police Department went to Meskil’s residence to get the tapes. When Meskil’s son answers the door, he sees that it is not Detectives Rosenthal and Rothstein. The son calls the Nassau County Police Department and tells them that somebody was at his door trying to take evidence of the Kennedy assassination. Nassau County Police responded in full force. The New York City Cops were sent packing.

Detectives Rosenthal and Rothstein are notified by Guido and Hess of what happened; somebody had sand-bagged them and they should immediately proceed to the Meskil residence and retrieve the tapes. Rosenthal and Rothstein meet with the son at Meskil’s residence and the son was so proud that he had protected the tapes for Rosenthal and Rothstein, as his father had told him to do. The son gives the tapes to the Detectives. The detectives knew what was coming; the cover-up was started.

Detectives Rosenthal and Rothstein take the tape to ADA Broomer’s office and the tape is played. Marita and Meskil were right. Sturgis is heard telling Marita, “You know what the rules are and what happens if you talk.”  Broomer and the powers to-be decide that is not a threat. The Detectives argue vehemently that it is clearly a threat and you have to be totally stupid if you don’t understand that. The Detectives know the fix was in. The charges against Sturgis were dropped.

The boxes of files in Marita’s apartment were hand delivered to the House Assassination Hearings in Washington DC by Marita Lorenz and retired Det. Bobby Polachek, who had been a partner of Det. Rothstein at the 26 Precinct.

 Subsequently, Rosenthal, Rothstein, and the City of New York were sued by Sturgis for $16 million for making a false arrest. The case was tried by Judge Leonard Sand in the Federal Court in the Southern District of New York. Sturgis was represented by Henry Rothblatt. Rothstein was called as the last witness late in the day. He was sworn in by the judge and the case was adjourned till the next day. As Det. Rothstein was getting ready to leave the court house, he was warned by unnamed sources that his life was in danger and that he should not go home. Det. Rothstein called one of his informants, who lived in the neighborhood near the court house, and asked her for assistance. She was connected to organized crime figures in the same area. Det. Rothstein left through the back door and was safely taken to an apartment by his informant and her friends.

The next morning, Det. Rothstein took the stand to testify. Before anything was said, Judge Sand was summoned to his chambers. After an hour or so, Det. Rothstein was called to the Judge’s Chambers. Det. Rothstein was asked what it would take for him not to testify. Everybody in the courtroom, especially the media, knew Det. Rothstein was going to let it all hang out. An agreement was reached that the City Of New York was going to pay $2,500.00 to Sturgis and Det. Rosenthal and Det. Rothstein were to be commended for acting above and beyond the call of duty. Judge Sand advised Det. Rothstein that he would be called in front of the bench and, if Det. Rothstein wanted to make a statement, he could say anything he wanted to say. Det. Rothstein realized it was in his best interest to keep his big mouth shut.  As Rothstein turns to leave the courtroom, Sturgis and Rothblatt shake Rothstein’s hand and asked if he would be part of their organization. Rothstein replies, “It is an honor for you to ask, but I cannot do that.” He left the courthouse.

THE AFTERMATH:

Sometime during the summer of 1983, Retired Detective Rothstein was sitting at the bar in Georgia’s Bar and Restaurant at 722 South Wellwood Avenue, Lindenhurst, New York talking to customers. A well-dressed man, wearing typical “spook” attire, came in and sat next to Rothstein. He introduced himself as a former New York City, police officer who had moved to Florida. During an hour conversation he told Rothstein that when Detectives Rosenthal and Rothstein arrested Frank Sturgis he was sent with a “bag of money” from Florida to get Sturgis out of jail. He did not say where the money came from. He knew all the facts about Sturgis. Rothstein has never seen or heard from him again and never knew why he came in the first place.

In the early nineties, Rothstein received a call from Arthur Nazeth, a reliable source in the underground of organized crime, inquiring about Frank Sturgis. Nazeth was in possession of an envelope with Frank Sturgis’ name on it and the seal of Cardinal Cooke from New York. Nazeth had received the envelope when a relative of his died, who had been a professor at one of the major colleges in New York. Nazeth asked what to do, and Rothstein told him to open it up and find out what it was. When the envelope was opened, it was the 22 page written confession of Frank Sturgis to Cardinal Cooke made in 1972. Nazeth read the 22 page confession to Rothstein over the phone. In the confession, Sturgis admits to the assassination of John F Kennedy in Dallas, Texas, giving a full description of what happened that day in Dallas. He also stated in that confession that the police officer, Tippet, had been killed by G. Gordon Liddy. Nazeth asks Rothstein to come to New York and pick up the confession. Rothstein was living in Maine at the time.

 Arrangements were made that Rothstein would meet Nazeth at the Saston Lumber Yard on Sunrise Highway in Lindenhurst, New York. When Nazeth nears the lumber yard to make the drop, he is intercepted by authorities. Authorities did not find the confession; Nazeth was not new to this kind of game. A second meeting is scheduled at the Lindenhurst Diner on Sunrise Highway in Lindenhurst the next night. On what was supposed to be a quiet night, it was standing room only with feds when Rothstein got there. When Nazeth saw the crowded diner, he aborted the drop. Rothstein returned to Maine waiting for another day when the heat was off. Rothstein would not hear from Nazeth again till about 2007.  Nazeth called Rothstein on another matter and told him that the confession was safe and by the water, and someday they would meet to finish the drop. Rothstein is still waiting. The confession verifies the information Rothstein received from Marita Lorenz and what Sturgis told Rothstein when he was arrested by Rothstein at Marita’s apartment.

In the mid to late nineties Rothstein was at a meeting with John Tunheim, who reviewed the files of the House Assassination to determine what information could be released to the public.  He relates what he saw during his time assignment. Rothstein asks Tunheim if he saw Marita’s boxes of files that had been delivered to the hearings and the files of Frank Sturgis. Tunheim responds that Marita was such a beautiful, sweet grandma but there were no files from Marita or Sturgis. He says it was not the files that were missing but the blocks of files that they could not find that surprised him. Rothstein tells Tunheim about his dealings with Marita and who she really was. Yes, she was a beautiful, sweet grandma but she was also a stone killer and assassin. She was known as, “My Little Assassin” in various writings.

In 2008, Don Roberts of Noblesville, Indiana, tells the local newspaper reporter, William Fouts, that he was an aircraft maintenance technician aboard the Essex in 1961. On April 2, 1961, the Essex sets sail from Norfolk Virginia. He recalls that in the pre-dawn hours of April 15, jets began launching from the Essex deck. “By sunrise, bodies were spotted in the water. Smoke could be seen rising over the horizon from Cuba. Over the next several days, the crew listened as CIA operatives stationed on the Isle of Pines pleaded for more air support. .” He stated, “He watched in horror as dead and wounded U.S. and Cuban personnel were brought aboard ship. He listened on the radio as CIA operatives pleaded for help, and like the rest of his shipmates, he felt anguish as the Essex headed for home leaving the invasion forces to their fate on the beaches.” But, President Kennedy had suspended air operations in support of the invasion. Even as more dead and wounded men, including Marines, arrived aboard the Essex, the crew heard U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Adlai Stevenson, as well as the Navy’s Chief of Operations deny news reports that U.S. ships were off the Cuban coast.

On April 22, 2011, the Bangor Daily News wrote a story about Torrey Sylvester of Houlton, Maine. Torrey had served on board the USS Conway 507 and was part of the invasion group with the Essex. Rothstein had met Torrey when he lived in Maine and had many conversations about the Bay of Pigs Invasion. Fifteen years earlier, Torrey had written a story about the Bay of Pigs Invasion and had sent it to the Naval Institute Proceedings for publishing. They wouldn’t print it because it was too sensitive.

In May of 2011, Rothstein went to the local American Legion Club in Paynesville, Minnesota. As he entered, his old classmate from Paynesville High School, Billy Quarfot, greeted Rothstein saying, “Hey, after fifty years, you are not a xxxx anymore. Look at the story in the VFW magazine of April, 2011. It verifies that the Essex was involved in the Bay of Pigs Invasion.” The story was written by Tim Dyhouse and gave a brief description of the ships and personnel involved in the attack. Rothstein smiled; he had known the truth for fifty years.

 

 

 

 

[David Andrews]

Detectives Rothstein and Rosenthal appear quite frequently in the past threads on Sturgis on this Forum.

[Michael Clark]

2 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

Detectives Rothstein and Rosenthal appear quite frequently in the past threads on Sturgis on this Forum.

Yes, post number 7, by Doug Caddy on this thread has a link to a good thread. Len Colby got deeply involved in debunking; that always raises red flags for me.

[Douglas Caddy]

Detective Rothstein, who has been in recent communication with Marita, tells me that after Castro died she decided that it was time to bring down the curtain on the past. She moved to Costa Rica with her daughter and terminated her film contract because she claimed the proposed script did not conform to what really happened.

 

[Paul Trejo]

3 hours ago, David Andrews said:

One would think that Sturgis would be subordinate to Hunt, as in the past, and not empowered to offer deals to a CIA officer.  An explanation is that Sturgis is now Morales's operative, and Morales left the room so that Sturgis could communicate the offer, giving Morales deniability.  Apparently alliances with Sturgis would have been fluid, and Sturgis would again be Hunt's soldier in the Watergate break-in period.

A more plausible explanation would be that this incident did not occur, or did not happen as reported, and that Hunt went to work on the Dallas 1963 project under Dick Helms' authority.

David,

I don't read that article as saying that Frank Sturgis outranked Howard Hunt inside the CIA, but rather, that Frank Sturgis outranked Howard Hunt inside a CIVILIAN plot.

 Regards,
--Paul Trejo