Paul Brancato Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 22 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: That is a really interesting report Mike. Man does it make Dulles look bad. Bob: The thing is Streicher says he is working for CIA. But yet he is working with the Belgians. Kennedy's whole policy was to keep the country independent of Belgium after Lumumba's death. I can use this when idiots like Max Holland says the CIA always obeys the president. Interesting comments he makes on the JFK murder. BTW, from documents Lesar saw, the CIA even hired Skorzeny to work the Congo. Hey, you can never have too many Nazis can you? What documents are you referring to? Not public ones I assume. Skorzeny, if the new book The Skorzeny Papers is accurate, did a lot more CIA dirty work before and after the Congo. I never could make sense out of Reagan’s visit to Bitburg cemetery. Now I get it. SS leaders were recruited by us, and they in turn brought their favorites on board. Skorzeny was the cream of the crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted June 29, 2018 Author Share Posted June 29, 2018 JIm Lesar told me after I did a speech about JFK and the Congo that he found CIA documents which said that they had secretly hired Skorzeny to work with the Katanga leadership. These were Top Secret, the CIA did not want anyone to know about it. What Dulles and McCloy started with getting guys like Gehlen and Barbie out of Germany was sickening. And the results were simply awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I haven't read far enough to have any comments about Skorzeney in the Congo but the mercenary who certainly did have a huge impact on the military situation there by 63/64 and whose forces largely retook territories for the central government was a South African named Mike Hoare. I write about his operations in the Congo fairly extensively in Shadow Warfare and compare them to the activities of Robertson's Cuban exiles and the Cuban Air Group. The Cuban exile air group made a big difference in the fighting but it was Hoare's mercenaries who operated extensively on the ground - and against the Cuban forces that were infiltrated in the East (led by Che Guevara) along with a CIA presence in the lake region. A bit on Hoare at the link below: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/people_hoare.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said: I haven't read far enough to have any comments about Skorzeney in the Congo but the mercenary who certainly did have a huge impact on the military situation there by 63/64 and whose forces largely retook territories for the central government was a South African named Mike Hoare. I write about his operations in the Congo fairly extensively in Shadow Warfare and compare them to the activities of Robertson's Cuban exiles and the Cuban Air Group. The Cuban exile air group made a big difference in the fighting but it was Hoare's mercenaries who operated extensively on the ground - and against the Cuban forces that were infiltrated in the East (led by Che Guevara) along with a CIA presence in the lake region. A bit on Hoare at the link below: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/people_hoare.html Larry, I was watching YouTube last night, and one of the segments I caught was about a handwritten letter from a Mike Hoare to Allen Dulles offering his (Hoare's) services to the Commission in any way that Dulles could use him. In his letter, Hoare talked about the many years he spent in the military and CIA. The letter was apparently part of the more recent NARA document releases. The kicker of the letter was that it was dated November 5, 1963. The author of the YouTube piece was not sure if the letter was mistakenly dated, or if there was something more sinister going on. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Very interesting Steve, my guess is that the date is right.....these types of individuals whether they be military like Hoare, Skorzeny, or for that matter people like Werbell were constantly approaching anyone they could think of that would give them connections to the CIA or the services or even the State Department. Not unlike today/s infamous private military contractors both large and small. Its all about networking, who knows you, who remembers you when a job or bid is on the table (open or non contractual). They always have to be marketing their services and selling their expertise...or offering it for free as an opening. Offering information, offering contacts, just staying on the radar...sort of like the music and entertainment industries in NYC and LA and London....same necessity, just lots more weapons and ultimately bloodshed (literally rather than figuratively). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 To Whom It May Concern, The Le Crapouillot magazine ran an article in their January-February, 1994 issue on mercenaries. An expose on the mercenaries in the Congo begins on page 11. The article is decidedly from the mercenaries point of view, and include interviews with Bob Denard, Colonel Schramme, Rolf Steiner and more. There are a lot of interesting photos in the article. You can find this issue of the magazine here: http://www.pdfarchive.info/pdf/L/Le/Le_Crapouillot_-_Nouvelle_serie_-_117.pdf http://www.pdfarchive.info/index.php?pages/Le This will be in a zip file, which you have to download, and then extract into a pdf. On page 37 there is this entry: Chez les mercenaires, on compte les morts et les blessés. Mais sans inquiétude excessive. On sait que, quelques jours plus tôt, Denard a rassemblé, en Angola, 110 mercenaires et 300 gendarmes katangais. Son but ? Remonter le Katanga par le sud et prendre l'ANC à revers. Aux côtés de Denard, l'ex -capitaine Jean-René Souêtre, ancien officier des commandos de l'air, et un Belge, le capitaine d'Hulster. Le 1er novembre,(1967) les trois pelotons de mercenaires s'enfoncent en territoire congolais, chacun avec un objectif précis : Dilolo, Kasagi, Kolwezi. Le 1er peloton, tombé dans une embuscade, n'échappe que de peu à l'anéantissement. Le 2e peloton occupe Kasagi sans problèmes. Le 3e peloton, en route vers Kolwezi, stoppé par des tirs de mortier, est obligé de se replier sur Kasagi. http://www.pdfarchive.info/pdf/L/Le/Le_Crapouillot_-_Nouvelle_serie_-_117.pdf Le 30 juin 1967, Tschombé qui se trouve à Madrid et dont le chef d'état-major est le capitaine Souêtre (nom de code : major Constant), est contacté par un soi-disant homme d'affaires, en réalité un truand nommé Bodenan, qui lui propose de venir à Palma de Majorque, pour lui racheter les terrains. C'est un piège : Tschombé va être enlevé par Bodenan et livré par lui à l'Algérie. Roughly translated (according to Google *smile*), this reads: Mercenaries include the dead and wounded. But without excessive worry. We know that a few days earlier, Denard has gathered in Angola, 110 mercenaries and 300 Katangan gendarmes. Its goal ? Go up Katanga from the south and take the ANC on the back. Alongside Denard, ex-Captain Jean-René Souêtre, former officer of the air commandos, and a Belgian, the captain of Hulster. On November 1, (1967) the three platoons of mercenaries sank in Congolese territory, each with a specific objective: Dilolo, Kasagi, Kolwezi. The 1st platoon, fallen into an ambush, escapes only a little to the annihilation. The 2nd peloton occupies Kasagi without problems. The 3rd peloton, en route to Kolwezi, stopped by mortar fire, is obliged to fall back on Kasagi. http://www.pdfarchive.info/pdf/L/Le/Le_Crapouillot_-_Nouvelle_serie_-_117.pdf On June 30, 1967, Tschombe who is in Madrid and whose chief of staff is Captain Soutre (code name: Major Constant), is contacted by a so-called businessman, in fact a gangster named Bodenan, who offers him to come to Palma de Mallorca, to buy the land. It is a trap: Tschombe will be removed by Bodenan and delivered by him to Algeria. On page 40, there is this picture: I sort of question that. In 1967, Souetre would have been 37 years old. To me, that's an awfully old looking 37 year old person. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) Souetre, Congo, Madrid, Skorzeny. Souetre and Skorzeny no doubt connected. Souetre, by whatever alias, in Dallas on Nov. 22 according to French Intelligence. The crude outline which the Skorzeny Papers suggest we consider is that Skorzeny was QJWIN, and that his business connections in Dallas, including Jack Crichton, supported the assassination, whose hit team was organized by Souetre. Edited June 29, 2018 by Paul Brancato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Nov release doc on Mike Hoare and Alastair Wicks. http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov-2017/104-10182-10073.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: JIm Lesar told me after I did a speech about JFK and the Congo that he found CIA documents which said that they had secretly hired Skorzeny to work with the Katanga leadership. These were Top Secret, the CIA did not want anyone to know about it. What Dulles and McCloy started with getting guys like Gehlen and Barbie out of Germany was sickening. And the results were simply awful. Of course. Just follow the Uranium. Like Ron stated Katanga was the home of the largest and highest grade Uranium deposit on Earth and if I were in intelligence then, that fact would be of primary concern to me. Tshombe controlled Katanga and I would imagine the CIA would have backed whoever had control of those deposits regardless of their politics or affiliations... The Nazi's allegiance was unquestioned when it came to the Russians and so "the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc.." If you add it all up the CIA had all the hallmark ingredients of a sales pitch to just about any right leaning decision maker like Eisenhower that would dovetail nicely with other self-serving interests that Dulles likely had in mind. Commies, nukes, regional stability and those sorts of bullet points were an easy sale then and still are (maybe switch out Commies for Terrorists). I'm sure Kennedy and Hammarskjokd had a liberal sensibility toward elevating the situation and Congolese independence out of the nineteenth century. That could of have been successful as far as the Commies, nukes and stability goes but would produce major forehead slaps regarding everything else. They had to take him out before it was too late. I suppose I'm stating the obvious but to sum up I really think the Uranium is the key... Edited June 29, 2018 by Bob Ness Correction on who controlled Katanga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 On 6/28/2018 at 9:02 AM, Larry Hancock said: Since this is about the Congo it might be worthwhile pointing out that within 3 months of the JFK assassination Rip Robertson had shipped out to the Congo, early 1964. He assisted with recruiting a joint ground and air group of Cuban exiles and personally led the ground unit on operations in the Congo. Although totally anecdotal, multiple sources reported his - and the exiles - openly talking about the JFK assassination with Robertson himself taking bows. Strictly talk but what is absolutely certain is that he moved out of Cuban operations and off to the Congo almost immediately after the assassination and was out of the country pretty much from that point on. Larry, here are 4 of the Cubans that were in the Congo. Notice Ricardo Morales. It's from him that Otero learned about some of the participants and told Fonzi. Otero and Morales were later members of Coru along with Tony Izquierdo whom some believe was the spotter in the DalTex building. After Artime's group was dissolved in '65 Izquierdo and Slivano Poso were sent to Panama by Carl Jenkins. Poso was later shot and killed in Panama by a "jealous husband." ! http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/docid-32307661.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 3 hours ago, Bob Ness said: I suppose I'm stating the obvious but to sum up I really think the Uranium is the key... Bob, I agree with you 100%. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 14 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: Bob, I agree with you 100%. Steve Thomas There can’t be much doubt about it. And the value of that commodity appreciates significantly when you add the value of denial to the Block to the value of exploitation by the West. And, I’ll repost this in context of resource exploitation and markets... “Refinery Problem in The Congo" https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/docid-32626330.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/docid-32626331.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 45 minutes ago, Michael Clark said: There can’t be much doubt about it. And the value of that commodity appreciates significantly when you add the value of denial to the Block to the value of exploitation by the West. Agreed. Astronomical multiplier and I don't think that overstates it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bob Ness said: Agreed. Astronomical multiplier and I don't think that overstates it. Thanks. I didn’t want to overstate it. And I don’t think that you did either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 "Larry, here are 4 of the Cubans that were in the Congo. Notice Ricardo Morales. It's from him that Otero learned about some of the participants and told Fonzi. Otero and Morales were later members of Coru along with Tony Izquierdo whom some believe was the spotter in the DalTex building. After Artime's group was dissolved in '65 Izquierdo and Slivano Poso were sent to Panama by Carl Jenkins. Poso was later shot and killed in Panama by a "jealous husband." !" http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/docid-32307661.pdf Excellent work David, that could be a real game changer!! That could literally be the link we have needed for so long, which pulls it virtually all together. First its an an awesome catch and second - how in the world did you find something that could actually drag me back into all this again...I thought I was safe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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