Michael Clark Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: And let us not forget that as Rob alludes to above, the Secret Service destroyed important records after THEY KNEW THE ARRB WANTED THEM! Horne wrote that the ARRB was very angry about this defiance of their authority. And they actually thought about going public and making a big deal about it. But he implies that Marwell eventually decided not to. But they did engage in a series of rather tense letters over the incineration of boxes of records they wanted to see. " As the HSCA attorney in charge of the motorcade route inquiry wrote, "Any map of Dallas in 1963 shows that it was easy to reach the Trade Mart on streets that join Main on the West side of the overpass." Again, there was no excuse for that route. None. "Sorrels explained that the size and cumbersomeness of the motorcade, along with the presence of a raised divider separating the Main Street lanofromtheElm Streetlaneatthefootoftherampuptotheexpress- way, deterred hiin from trying to route the motorcade under and through the overpass on Main Street. Such a route would have as- signed the drivers in the motorcade the almost impossible task of mak- ing a reverse S-turn in order to cross over the raised divider to get from the Main Street lane into the Elm Street lane. (190) However, this question-and-answer process failed to make clear that the Trade Mart was accessible from beyond the triple overpass in such a way that it was not necessary to enter the Elm Street ramp to the expressway. The motorcade could have progressed westward through Dealey Plaza on Main Street, passed under the overpass, and then proceeded on Industrial Boulevard to the Trade Mart .(191) " http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol11/pdf/HSCA_Vol11_Motorcade.pdf Edited May 27, 2018 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Sure as heck sounds to me like CYA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph McBride Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) The Industrial Boulevard route supposedly was considered too grungy for a presidential motorcade, but they would have seen more voters than by whizzing along the freeway to the Trade Mart. Still, by the time they reached Dealey Plaza, they had been seen by many thousands of people downtown and on the way from the airport. There was also a time consideration. As it was, the motorcade was running five minutes late as it entered Dealey Plaza. But the excuses don't explain the decision to violate Secret Service protocol, which required the limousine to not to go below 25mph. It was going about 11mph after the dogleg turn onto Elm Street.. Edited May 27, 2018 by Joseph McBride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: The logical answer is that they were getting different signals from different sources. You synthesized exactly what I think about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Michael Clark said: "Sorrels explained that the size and cumbersomeness of the motorcade, along with the presence of a raised divider separating the Main Street lane from the Elm Street lane at the foot of the ramp up to the express- way, deterred hiin from trying to route the motorcade under and through the overpass on Main Street. Such a route would have as- signed the drivers in the motorcade the almost impossible task of making a reverse S-turn in order to cross over the raised divider to get from the Main Street lane into the Elm Street lane. (190) However, this question-and-answer process failed to make clear that the Trade Mart was accessible from beyond the triple overpass in such a way that it was not necessary to enter the Elm Street ramp to the expressway. The motorcade could have progressed westward through Dealey Plaza on Main Street, passed under the overpass, and then proceeded on Industrial Boulevard to the Trade Mart .(191) " http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol11/pdf/HSCA_Vol11_Motorcade.pdf Thanks again, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 24 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said: But the excuses don't explain the decision to violate Secret Service protocol, which required the limousine to not to go below 25mph Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: And when Paz said "totally agree" she said that in response to my statement that the route Kennedy rode on could have been devised by a sniper running the ambush. And I completely stand by that statement. Thank you, Jim. That's a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: I won't go into the whole Roberts/Rybka call off, That's yet another myth that won't die the death it deserves. It wasn't Rybka who was "called off". .... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Lawton-And-Rybka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorial-cartoons/jack-ohman/article2582975.html Jim, thank you very much for this. It confirms something we are working about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph McBride Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) That''s a really ignorant and foolish article by Jack Ohman. But now I understand this oft-reported trope about people thinking when they visit Dealey Plaza that it is smaller than it seems in photos and films. That (willed?) misperception makes it easier to rationalize the bizarre Oswald-did-it theory that a mediocre marksman who didn't own the rifle entered into evidence that was misaligned and often jammed was able to shoot the president through trees and from behind and in front at the same time in less time than it would take to shoot and aim properly, and somehow hit the governor and James Tague too, even though no one saw him do it since he was in the second-floor lunchroom at the time. Edited May 27, 2018 by Joseph McBride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Couteau Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 15 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: The motorcycle escort As a follow-up to what Jim said above (this is also from Devil's Chessboard): "Soon after the assassination, Dillon and others began circulating the false story that Kennedy preferred his Secret Service guards to ride behind him in motorcades, instead of on the side rails of his limousine, and that Kennedy had also requested the Dallas police motorcycle squadron to hang back - so the crowds in Dallas could enjoy an unobstructed view of the glamorous first couple. This clever piece of disinformation had the insidious effect of absolving the Secret Service and indicting Kennedy, implying that his vanity was his downfall. And with Dulles's help, Dillon was able to slip this spurious story into the commission record." (Page 584.) Insidious is the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, David Von Pein said: That's yet another myth that won't die the death it deserves. It wasn't Rybka who was "called off". .... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Lawton-And-Rybka Excuse me, the whole Roberts/Lawton call off. Check this out and you will see why the 'myth" is still suspicious Edited May 27, 2018 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Jeffries Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I was the first researcher to contact Henry Rybka's family. During the course of writing Hidden History, I spoke to Rybka's granddaughter, and my friend William Law spoke to Rybka's son on my behalf. The details of those conversations are in the book, but suffice to say I was not persuaded by the revisionist argument that the agent being waved off was actually Donald Lawton, and not Rybka. The conversations we had with Rybka's family certainly didn't persuade me. I have the greatest respect for Vince Palamara's work, but I think he was too quick to accept the revised narrative that the agent in question was actually Lawton. We don't really know what Rybka looked like, nor do we know much about him in general. He died way too early, like so many others connected to this case. That little film clip at Love Field certainly looks conspiratorial to the unbiased observer. Whoever the agent was, he appears not to have been in the loop. The motorcade route doesn't get as much scrutiny as it should. Neocons in our community have attempted to diminish the significance of the change, and of the actual route eventually taken. Thanks to Jim D. and Joseph McBride and everyone else here who has contributed to a great discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Thanks for that Don. I always appreciate people who get out of their computer chairs and pick up the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Don Jeffries said: Neocons in our community have attempted to diminish the significance of the change, and of the actual route eventually taken Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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