Gifts from uncle Malcolm.

[Guest]

Drain to Sorrels. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

[John Butler]

Bart,

This list of photographers that is now missing is suspicious.  It wasn't released until 1995.  What was so secret about this list that it could not be released and had to go missing?

This is a good match for one of my pet biases.  This is that not all of the photographers were allowed to show their work or keep their visual material.  If you look at the photos along the assassination route, Main and Houston Intersection, Houston Street, and on Elm Street you will see unknowns with cameras.  When I did a count of those there were 30+ photographers and 16 who could possibly have a camera.  This last group the imaging was to vague to be sure.

On Elm Street and the areas mentioned above we have only Zapruder and Skaggs that shows the passenger side of the limousine.  Highly suspicious.  What is being covered up here?  

[B. A. Copeland]

5 hours ago, John Butler said:

Bart,

This list of photographers that is now missing is suspicious.  It wasn't released until 1995.  What was so secret about this list that it could not be released and had to go missing?

This is a good match for one of my pet biases.  This is that not all of the photographers were allowed to show their work or keep their visual material.  If you look at the photos along the assassination route, Main and Houston Intersection, Houston Street, and on Elm Street you will see unknowns with cameras.  When I did a count of those there were 30+ photographers and 16 who could possibly have a camera.  This last group the imaging was to vague to be sure.

On Elm Street and the areas mentioned above we have only Zapruder and Skaggs that shows the passenger side of the limousine.  Highly suspicious.  What is being covered up here?  

Interestingly enough John, and certainly related to your own thinking here, was that someone or somewhere I read recently, asked a rhetorical question concerning such a huge event in Dallas, Texas that day, namely, wouldn't one expect far more photographers and even cameramen operating that day as part of the local and national media? I believe the speaker was surprised at how relatively little there seems to have been officially or how little we have as far as videos and photographs even compared to what one might naturally assume give how important and unique such a visit would have been.

 

As I read or listened) to that I couldn't help but to wonder how much media was possibly confiscated and/or destroyed, be it films or photos...its annoying and frustrating.

[John Butler]

B. A. Copeland,

This has been a pet project of mine for some time.  If you are interested there is more work on this I have posted on my website.  I have a 2-part article there.  The second part is the most interesting as far as identifying unknown photographers.  Best read quickly because the website ends on August 19.

https://jfkrunningthegauntlet.com/2018/08/05/films-and-photos-taken-that-afternoon-in-dealey-plaza-part-ii/

[David Josephs]

Post deleted

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by David Josephs

[John Butler]

B. A. Copland,

We don't know how many photographers had their work and cameras seized after the assassination.  The idea of a list is very intriguing.  It can't see the light of day because that would expose what was done during the coverup.

David Josephs does exceptional work.  He has hit on an important idea with his imagery.  This clearly shows only one person filming the assassination during the assassination from the passenger side of the limo perspective.  That is Abe Zapruder.  And, no one else.  This is clearly arranged afterwards.  And, maybe before hand.

I added an extra detail that shows that some of the work of the photographers on the map maybe problematic.  I hope he is not too offended by that.  There was a line of people crossing the Main and Houston intersection.  These maps show these photographers as perhaps in the wrong place.  They couldn't film what they did unless they too were in that line of people.

I believe these are not Josephs' maps.  They were done much earlier.  Mistakes were made in placing people where there film showed them to be.  I think whoever did the map worked backwards from the scene to find the location of the photographer.  It is a sensible thing to do.  However, people like Nix could not have taken shots of Houston Street because of that line of people and the people standing on the NE corner of Main and Houston.

and Bronson frames showing this line of  people:

As you can see if you were not in this line of people it would have been difficult to film anything on Houston.  People like Robert Croft, Ike Altgens, Dick Bothun, Robert Hughes, Jack Weaver, and others must have been in this line otherwise their film was taken by others.

There is some evidence that military photographers were in Dealey Plaza that day.  There were at least 30+ unknowns and 16 possible photographers filming that day.  Who knows what film went into making the film we call Orville Nix today.

Edited August 14, 2018 by John Butler

[Robin Unger]

Post removed

Edited August 15, 2018 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Post removed

Edited August 15, 2018 by Robin Unger

[John Butler]

Robin,

I agree.  Bronson's perspective is elevated.  I always wondered by how much.  The article says 55 to 60 inches.  That makes sense. 

Let me run this idea by you and see what you think.

On the maps the positions of the known photographers is off.  This can be partly explained by putting them on the map based on where they were after the presidential party moved through the Main / Houston intersection.  As an example, Hughes is in that "Bronson line" when he filmed the presidential party in the intersection then moved down to the spot where he is located on the maps on the SW corner of Main and Houston.

There needs to be two maps.  One showing the location of the photographers when the president came through the Main and Houston intersection.  A second map would show where they moved to afterwards.  As an example, Phil Willis is by the light pole on the NE corner of Main and Houston and then he moves down to the SW corner of Houston and Elm.  The second map would show him on the SW corner of Houston and Elm.

[Paul Brancato]

An aside - forgive me - how about the complete lack of Photos in the RFK shooting?

[Robin Unger]

Post removed.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Robin Unger

[Guest]

Do me a favour and create your own thread.

Thank you.

[John Butler]

Bart,

Sorry, many apologies.  I just got carried away with the notion that there was a secret list of photographers kept secret for decades and then goes missing.  That kind of thing confirms what research I am doing and is at the heart of the unknown photographer problem in Dealey Plaza.

Once again sorry.

[David Josephs]

Not hijacking the thread...  just clarifying

Wanted to say that yes, my map had BRONSON in the wrong place...

While there are no photos of him, it is obvious he was standing on a concrete column on the south side of Main.

I fixed my map, thanks Robin...

[B. A. Copeland]

On 8/14/2018 at 3:10 PM, John Butler said:

B. A. Copland,

We don't know how many photographers had their work and cameras seized after the assassination.  The idea of a list is very intriguing.  It can't see the light of day because that would expose what was done during the coverup.

David Josephs does exceptional work.  He has hit on an important idea with his imagery.  This clearly shows only one person filming the assassination during the assassination from the passenger side of the limo perspective.  That is Abe Zapruder.  And, no one else.  This is clearly arranged afterwards.  And, maybe before hand.

I added an extra detail that shows that some of the work of the photographers on the map maybe problematic.  I hope he is not too offended by that.  There was a line of people crossing the Main and Houston intersection.  These maps show these photographers as perhaps in the wrong place.  They couldn't film what they did unless they too were in that line of people.

I believe these are not Josephs' maps.  They were done much earlier.  Mistakes were made in placing people where there film showed them to be.  I think whoever did the map worked backwards from the scene to find the location of the photographer.  It is a sensible thing to do.  However, people like Nix could not have taken shots of Houston Street because of that line of people and the people standing on the NE corner of Main and Houston.

and Bronson frames showing this line of  people:

As you can see if you were not in this line of people it would have been difficult to film anything on Houston.  People like Robert Croft, Ike Altgens, Dick Bothun, Robert Hughes, Jack Weaver, and others must have been in this line otherwise their film was taken by others.

There is some evidence that military photographers were in Dealey Plaza that day.  There were at least 30+ unknowns and 16 possible photographers filming that day.  Who knows what film went into making the film we call Orville Nix today.

Thanks a ton john (and David + whoever created said diagram). That is an amazing diagram and I will definitely check the site out. John if the site ends, what of your work?? Why does it "end"?

Edited August 16, 2018 by B. A. Copeland