Cliff Varnell Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 36 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said: Dr. Perry also wrote down on 11/22 that the throat wound was a "fragment wound". Citation please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Mileto Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Citation please. Ce 392 McClelland not Perry. PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said: Ce 392 McClelland not Perry. PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone. McClelland didn't see the wound. Carrico and Jones in their contemporaneous notes described the wound as an entrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Heinricks Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 McClelland also writes "from a gunshot wound of the left temple." in that statement.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 43 minutes ago, Geoff Heinricks said: McClelland also writes "from a gunshot wound of the left temple." in that statement.... Besides, "fragment wound" refers to the size of the wound, not the direction of the projectile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: 5 hours ago, Micah Mileto said: Ce 392 PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone. McClelland didn't see the wound. McClelland said that he saw the throat wound "clearly": Though he called it an ENTRANCE wound. (Not an exit of a fragment.) BTW, the way he describes the throat wound and the back wound, it appears to me that he was thinking that a shot to the throat exited the back. I have started a new thread for discussion of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: McClelland didn't see the wound. I stand corrected. Edited August 12, 2018 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Geoff Heinricks said: McClelland also writes "from a gunshot wound of the left temple." in that statement.... True. But he didn't actually see the wound. Dr. Jenkins initially thought there was a wound on the left temple and that is what he told McClelland. (Source) McClelland's drawing indicates that he didn't see the wound in the left temple, which is consistent with what Dr. Jenkins said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: True. But he didn't actually see the wound. Dr. Jenkins initially thought there was a wound on the left temple and that is what he told McClelland. (Source) McClelland's drawing indicates that he didn't see the wound in the left temple, which is consistent with what Dr. Jenkins said. So McClelland clearly saw the throat entrance wound as long as that conforms to one of your pet theories, but when it contradicts one of your other pet theories you go with McClelland got that bit wrong maybe. You've got Magic Fragments from an EOP strike causing all the damage in the neck without showing up on x-ray. The wheels of the JFKA Parlor Game go 'round and 'round... Edited August 13, 2018 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Mileto Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said: So McClelland clearly saw the throat entrance wound as long as that conforms to one of your pet theories, but when it contradicts one of your other pet theories you go with McClelland got that bit wrong maybe. You've got Magic Fragments from an EOP strike causing all the damage in the neck without showing up on x-ray. The wheels of the JFKA Parlor Game go 'round and 'round... Cyril Wecht also said there may be a fragment in the middle-neck area on the x-rays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyvan Shahrdar Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said: So McClelland clearly saw the throat entrance wound as long as that conforms to one of your pet theories, but when it contradicts one of your other pet theories you go with McClelland got that bit wrong maybe. You've got Magic Fragments from an EOP strike causing all the damage in the neck without showing up on x-ray. The wheels of the JFKA Parlor Game go 'round and 'round... OMG ... There is a serious disconnect here. There is NO hole in the back of JFK's head in the Zapruder film or in the Mary Moreman photo. There is a big hole on the top of his head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) The argument hasn't changed much in almost 55 years. It's still Parkland vs. Autopsy. Who do you believe? Does anyone have information on President Kennedy's clothes concerning the trail of custody for those clothes. In particular, information on who took custody of his coat, shirt, tie, trousers, and back brace. Was that material just bagged up and given to the FBI or Secret Service? The reason for this question is that there is quite a bit of argument on the back wound hole in the shirt fitting the hole in the President's back exactly. There was that odd discussion about creepy (crepey) skin. Or, otherwise there were arguments of jackets riding up or shirts riding up because things didn't quite work for the backwound unless special pleading was done. Edited August 13, 2018 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 6 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: On 8/12/2018 at 1:13 PM, Sandy Larsen said: True. But he didn't actually see the wound. Dr. Jenkins initially thought there was a wound on the left temple and that is what he told McClelland. (Source) McClelland's drawing indicates that he didn't see the wound in the left temple, which is consistent with what Dr. Jenkins said. So McClelland clearly saw the throat entrance wound as long as that conforms to one of your pet theories, but when it contradicts one of your other pet theories you go with McClelland got that bit wrong maybe. You've got Magic Fragments from an EOP strike causing all the damage in the neck without showing up on x-ray. The wheels of the JFKA Parlor Game go 'round and 'round... All I did was report some facts, Cliff. I didn't take any position at all in my post. And I said nothing about the theories I believe may be correct. So I don't know why you're complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 36 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: All I did was report some facts, Cliff. I didn't take any position at all in my post. And I said nothing about the theories I believe may be correct. So I don't know why you're complaining. Sandy, you've taken you positions on other posts. Your theories require many incorrect witnesses and impossible behavior of skull/bullet fragments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: 3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: All I did was report some facts, Cliff. I didn't take any position at all in my post. And I said nothing about the theories I believe may be correct. So I don't know why you're complaining. Sandy, you've taken you positions on other posts. If so, kindly reply to the other posts. Quote Your theories require many incorrect witnesses.... Only in the one case, where the doctors might have been mistaken. (BTW, at least one of the doctors at Parkland said that he or they weren't sure it was an entrance wound. I'll post his statement if you want.) Quote ....and impossible behavior of skull/bullet fragments. Not so. Edited August 14, 2018 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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