The Motorcade Puzzle

[John Butler]

On 8/13/2021 at 4:18 PM, John Butler said:

The absence of the railroad workers on the overpass above Elm Street.  We've all seen the famous, I say infamous, Altgens 7 photo showing these fellows.  But, at the same time they are missing from this Weigman frame.

Mark failed to mention this.  It is in my opinion the most interesting thing about the Weigman frame.  It is one of the many touch points that tells one there is two versions of reality in Dealey Plaza when the assassination occurred.

I don't know where I got this idea.  I had thought that Mark mentioned the car down by the overpass as being the SS agents vehicle.  I can't find that so I guess he didn't say anything about it.  But, I prepared this comparison.  And, I might as well post it.  This shows that the vehicle down by the overpass is the p. limo and not the SS agents vehicle.  There are no agents on running boards with this vehicle.

20 hours ago, Mark Tyler said:

The Mayor's car didn't stop for more than a few seconds, but the longer delay came thanks to the camera cars which were very sluggish to get away as several cameramen got out of the cars and took films and photos before returning to their cars.

What is a few seconds?  Mark's animation is based on detailed accuracy.  So, that few seconds should be important and necessary to understand the motorcades movement through Dealey Plaza.  Dearie Cabell said:

Congressman Roberts was sitting just as this lady is now, and turned the

same way. I was turned facing him. We were looking directly at each other,

The position of our car was such that when that first shot rang out, my position

was such that I did not have to turn to look at the building. I was directly

facing it.

 

Mr. Hubert. In other words, your car was still really on Houston?

 

Mrs. Cabell. No ; we were making the turn.

 

Mr. Hubert. Just on the turn?

 

Mrs. Cabell. Just on the turn, which put us at the top of the hill, you see.

 

This is an earlier representation picked up from the internet and from whom is a guess.  But, it confirms Dearie's testimony on where her vehicle was and stopped.  This puts the first shot in front of the TSBD.  If Zapruder is invoked it is more than likely at Z 157-160.  This fits with what many witnesses who were in the TSBD said.  They heard shots when the p. limo was under the trees in front of the TSBD.  400+ witnesses are a lot of testimony to read.  However there are about 110 or more witnesses that say the shooting of the president happened in a different manner than the official story.  That is enough witnesses to take what they said seriously.

Using this location, Z 157, from the map above Zapruder filmed an extra 329 frames.  At 18.3 frames per second we have 17.9 or 18 seconds to leave Dealey Plaza from where the p. limo was at at Z 157.  So, the Weigman frame shows the p. limo leaving by just about going under the overpass.  It should help with figuring out how long the Mayor's Car was held up at the intersection.  Mark in the animation has the Mayor's Car not stopping at all.  If so, that throws his whole sequence off.  I'll rewatch his July 17, 2021 version to see if I am remembering correctly. 

The animation shows the Mayor's Car not stopping in the intersection, but it does stop further down in front of the TSBD in a position that directly contradicts what Dearie Cabell said.

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by John Butler

[Chris Davidson]

On 8/15/2021 at 6:54 AM, John Butler said:

This is an earlier representation picked up from the internet and from whom is a guess.  But, it confirms Dearie's testimony on where her vehicle was and stopped.  This puts the first shot in front of the TSBD.  If Zapruder is invoked it is more than likely at Z 157-160.  This fits with what many witnesses who were in the TSBD said.  They heard shots when the p. limo was under the trees in front of the TSBD.  400+ witnesses are a lot of testimony to read.  However there are about 110 or more witnesses that say the shooting of the president happened in a different manner than the official story.  That is enough witnesses to take what they said seriously.

The animation shows the Mayor's Car not stopping in the intersection, but it does stop further down in front of the TSBD in a position that directly contradicts what Dearie Cabell said.

 

 

 

 

John,

I believe the mayors car stops (slows to a stop?) after the extant z218 shot(probably between extant z224-z257), when put in the context of Wiegman decides to start filming as the motorcade starts moving again.

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

[John Butler]

5 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Thanks Chris,

I have Todd Vaughan's motorcade info.  It is invaluable for determining whose who in the motorcade.  The photos above are great.  The man with the stetson must be T. Wright, TDPS, the driver.  The bottom film is what film?  I recognize it, but don't recall the name.

I differ on shot placement due to witness testimony.  These witnesses were in the TSBD on the 3rd and 4th floors.  

Witness Statements:

1.     Harold Norman- 11-26-63 FBI statement Norman said he heard a shot as the vehicle turned onto Elm St.

2.     Bonnie Ray Williams- Sheriff’s Office on 11-22-63- first said he heard shot when the presidential limo turned onto Houston.  Later, he changed that to a turn onto Elm St. and then later changed that.

 

3.     James “Junior” Jarman- Warren Hearing on March 24, 1964- At first, Jarman said much the same as Williams and Norman.  He later changed his testimony at the WC to hearing shots from low and to the left.  That is shooting from Houston Street.  This could be from the Dal-Tex.

 

4.     Mary Hollies- 2-18-64 statement to Detective Potts said she heard 3 shots as the motorcade turned into the intersection.  She noticed smoke on a little hill over to the west.  Mary Hollies and Alice Foster are placed with 5^th floor witnesses due to Mary’s 6^th Floor Museum interview in January, 2011.  This contradicts her earlier statements.

 

5.     Betty Alice Foster-3-19-64 FBI statement- She heard something like fireworks after the President’s car turned down Elm St.

 

6.      Elsie Dorman- 11-23-63 FBI report, 3-20-64 FBI report.  She thought shots came from the Court Records Building on Houston St.  She became excited and quit filming at the time the President was on Houston Street at the Court Records Building.

 

7.     Sandra Styles- In a statement made to the FBI on 3-19-64 she said she heard shots but, did not know where they came from and offered no other relevant information.  However, in a video published in October, 2017 she said as the presidential vehicle turned into the intersection she heard 3 shots.   Reference:  Jobert Jefford Paulson video, Oct. 17, 2017- The Case of the Lady Who Did Not See the Assassin.

 

8.     Vickie Adams- FBI report- 11-24-63- She said when the president’s vehicle entered the intersection of Elm and Houston she heard 3 shots.  She could not see the shooting since it happened while the presidential limousine was under trees.  And, that would be in front of the TSBD.

 

9.     Dorothy Garner- 3-20-64 FBI report- When the shots occurred the presidential vehicle was out of sight, obscured by trees.  This would be in front of the TSBD.

 

10. Yola Hopson- 12-1-63- FBI report- She heard two or more sounds / firecrackers when the presidential limousine was obscured by trees.  This would be in front of the TSBD.

 

11. Steven Wilson- 3-25-64- FBI statement- He said he heard 3 shots while the president was obscured by trees.  This would be in front of the TSBD.

 

There are more.  You can see that there were other witnesses who saw or heard something different.  The current number is 110+.  From these witnesses there are statements about where the p. limo was when they heard shots that begin on Main Street, continue on Houston Street, in the intersection of Houston and Elm, and in front of the TSBD.  Very few of these witnesses agree with the official story.  

Mark in his motorcade animation skips these witnesses.

Edited August 16, 2021 by John Butler

[Chris Davidson]

On 8/15/2021 at 6:54 AM, John Butler said:

This is an earlier representation picked up from the internet and from whom is a guess.  But, it confirms Dearie's testimony on where her vehicle was and stopped.  This puts the first shot in front of the TSBD.  If Zapruder is invoked it is more than likely at Z 157-160.  This fits with what many witnesses who were in the TSBD said.  They heard shots when the p. limo was under the trees in front of the TSBD.  400+ witnesses are a lot of testimony to read.  However there are about 110 or more witnesses that say the shooting of the president happened in a different manner than the official story.  That is enough witnesses to take what they said seriously.
 

 

 

 

 

Don't have a problem with earlier shots. Possibly near the film splices at extant z157/207 as the limo slows (same driver reaction) in each instance. Nor at the extant z133 and Towner splice.

But, as I specified previously by showing the plotting differences between Mark and me in relationship to the mayors car radius and converting that into distance and frames via the speeds provided, the limo is slowly retarding to its correct position while syncing up the Wiegman start along the way. imo

I think we agree there is a gap, not necessarily the size/s or location/s of it. 

 

 

 

[Eddy Bainbridge]

15 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Don't have a problem with earlier shots. Possibly near the film splices at extant z157/207 as the limo slows (same driver reaction) in each instance. Nor at the extant z133 and Towner splice.

But, as I specified previously by showing the plotting differences between Mark and me in relationship to the mayors car radius and converting that into distance and frames via the speeds provided, the limo is slowly retarding to its correct position while syncing up the Wiegman start along the way. imo

I think we agree there is a gap, not necessarily the size/s or location/s of it. 

 

 

 

Hi Chris, would you be willing to estimate the range of gap size that is currently up for debate? 

[Mark Tyler]

On 8/15/2021 at 2:54 PM, John Butler said:

Mark failed to mention this.  It is in my opinion the most interesting thing about the Weigman frame.  It is one of the many touch points that tells one there is two versions of reality in Dealey Plaza when the assassination occurred.

I don't know where I got this idea.  I had thought that Mark mentioned the car down by the overpass as being the SS agents vehicle.  I can't find that so I guess he didn't say anything about it.  But, I prepared this comparison.  And, I might as well post it.  This shows that the vehicle down by the overpass is the p. limo and not the SS agents vehicle.  There are no agents on running boards with this vehicle.

That is indeed the Presidential limo in the Wiegman frame and is used to triangulate and connect that Wiegman frame to Z447 in the Zapruder film.

On 8/15/2021 at 2:54 PM, John Butler said:

What is a few seconds?  Mark's animation is based on detailed accuracy.  So, that few seconds should be important and necessary to understand the motorcades movement through Dealey Plaza.  Dearie Cabell said:

Sadly there was no film of the Mayor's car stop but we know it happened near Z447 as we see the national press pool car behind it with it's brake lights on indicating that the Mayor's car had stopped or was stopping.  We next see the national press pool car in the Bell film (the top image here has it's distinctive rear end on the left hand edge between the sprocket holes):

Then the Bell film pans to see Charles Hester duck into the pergola shelter which matches the end of the Wiegman film segment (26 seconds in total, or 15 seconds after Z447, if Wiegman was recording at 24 FPS, or a second or two less if it was 29 FPS).  We can deduce therefore than the cars stopped very briefly for a few seconds, and no more, as the cars had both passed the grassy knoll steps well before the Wiegman film ended.

On 8/15/2021 at 2:54 PM, John Butler said:

The animation shows the Mayor's Car not stopping in the intersection, but it does stop further down in front of the TSBD in a position that directly contradicts what Dearie Cabell said.

The Mayor's car stops for about 4 seconds in the animation, which dovetails perfectly with all of the other action recorded by the films at the time, and even some things that weren't recorded such as Hargis running across the road towards the lamppost.  As far as I know there are no loose ends in the animation, and the film evidence matches perfectly with the larger body of witness evidence.  Yes, there are the occasional disagreements between witnesses, but overall the continuity of events can be worked out with no sinister loose ends remaining.

Dearie Cabell said she was passing the TSBD when the first shot was fired, which fits the animation perfectly if the first shot was fired Z180-Z220.  The Zapruder film shows the Mayor's car behind the spectators behind the reflecting pool at exactly Z180 so this part of the sequence is very accurately known.  The Wiegman film and the Dorman film prove that the Mayors car didn't stop until it was well down Elm Street and well past the traffic lights as shown in the Z447 Wiegman frame earlier in this thread.  The films match each other, and they match Dearie Cabell's testimony.  Many parts of this case are unclear or untrustworthy, but this part of the Dealey Plaza sequence is crystal clear and highly reliable thanks to the films and the witnesses.

[John Butler]

31 minutes ago, Mark Tyler said:

The Mayor's car stops for about 4 seconds in the animation, which dovetails perfectly with all of the other action recorded by the films at the time,

I didn't see that when I viewed and reviewed the motorcade animation.  I didn't see a stop in the intersection of four seconds or any other in the intersection.  Here is what Dearie said:

Mr. Hubert. And it was about that time that you observed the odor?

 

Mrs. Cabell. Of gunpowder.

 

Mr. Hubert. That was when your car at least had come to a standstill?

 

Mrs. Cabell. Every car in the motorcade had come to a standstill.

 

Mr. Hubert. Therefore, of course, it was before you followed on to the

hospital?

Mrs. Cabell. Yes.

 

Mr. Hubert. Did you make the observation to anyone at that time that you

had smelled gunpowder?

 

Mrs. Cabell. No; because there was too much confusion. But I mentioned

it to Congressman Roberts when we were in Washington a couple of weeks ago.

 

Mr. Hubert. Did he say that he had observed it?

 

Mrs. Cabell. As well as I remember, he said “Yes.” We were in a group,

a large group, and there was much conversation.

 

Mr. Hubert. Did you hear any other spontaneous remarks by anyone else?

By spontaneous remarks, I mean remarks made then, not later.

 

Mrs. Cabell. Congressman Roberts — and I believe this was after the third

shot, because we were dead still for a matter of some seconds — then when the

motorcade started up, Congressman Roberts said — these might not be his exact

words, but this is what he meant: “If all is well ahead, we are headed for

Love Field. We are getting out.”

 

Mr. Hubert. His previous remark about the caliber of the rifle, which you did

not at that time understand, was made after the third shot was fired and before

you began to move?

 

Mrs. Cabell. Yes.

---------------

Three shots were fired before the motorcade began to move.  This would be something like 11 seconds according to various folks.  And, there would be additional time for the motorcade to start up.  But, the real denominator of time would be when Welcome Barrett/and or J. M Smith released the motorcade that it had stopped.

[Mark Tyler]

21 minutes ago, John Butler said:

I didn't see that when I viewed and reviewed the motorcade animation.  I didn't see a stop in the intersection of four seconds or any other in the intersection.  Here is what Dearie said:

The Mayor's car didn't stop at the intersection, it stopped well into Elm Street.  The Wiegman film shows the Mayors car cruising around the turn and then stopping a few seconds later.

The only cars that stopped on the intersection were the camera cars as shown by the Couch and Darnell films.

Dearie Cabell referred to the first shot being fired while she was turning on the intersection.  Ergo the next two were fired while she was on Elm Street.

No films, photos, or witness statements support the notion of the Mayor's car stopping at the intersection.

[Chris Davidson]

1 hour ago, Mark Tyler said:

The Mayor's car didn't stop at the intersection, it stopped well into Elm Street.  The Wiegman film shows the Mayors car cruising around the turn and then stopping a few seconds later.

The only cars that stopped on the intersection were the camera cars as shown by the Couch and Darnell films.

Dearie Cabell referred to the first shot being fired while she was turning on the intersection.  Ergo the next two were fired while she was on Elm Street.

No films, photos, or witness statements support the notion of the Mayor's car stopping at the intersection.

Matches quite well with what Mrs.Cabell states below. imo

Mrs. CABELL. If I did, I don't recall. I am completely aware of the people running up that hill. I saw the man throw the child on the ground and throw himself. I saw a woman in a bright green dress throw herself on the ground. I saw the policeman running up the grassy slope.
Mr. HUBERT. You also mentioned that you were acutely aware of the smell of gunpowder?
Mrs. CABELL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When was that relative to the shots? I mean how soon after?
Mrs. CABELL. I cannot say for sure, because as I told you, the motorcade was stopped. And somewhere in there, Congressman Roberts said, "That is a .30-06." I didn't know what a .30-06 was.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say that after all the shots were fired?
Mrs. CABELL. I believe so. There was much confusion.
Mr. HUBERT. And it was about that time that you observed the odor?
Mrs. CABELL. Of gunpowder.
Mr. HUBERT. That was when your car at least had come to a standstill?
Mrs. CABELL. Every car in the motorcade had come to a standstill.

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

8 hours ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

Hi Chris, would you be willing to estimate the range of gap size that is currently up for debate? 

Eddy,

For a number of reasons,

I'm sticking with approx 1.8 seconds+1 frame  = 33/34zframes at 18.3fps, not necessarily all in one swoop, for now.

 

 

 

[John Butler]

15 hours ago, Mark Tyler said:

The Mayor's car didn't stop at the intersection, it stopped well into Elm Street.  The Wiegman film shows the Mayors car cruising around the turn and then stopping a few seconds later.

I'll repeat Dearie Cabell's testimony again.  The Mayor's Car stopped facing directly towards the TSBD.  This was in the intersection.  The car was stopped by the patrolmen at the scene in the intersection.  They were there for at least 11 seconds probably more.  This is the alleged timing of the shots by various researchers.  They were there when they heard the 3 shots.  Most people believe the 2nd or last shot was at Z 313 which by Zapruder timing gives the p. limo 20 seconds to leave the plaza.  This conforms with the original Weigman frame posted.   They were released first and then the rest of the motorcade a short time later.  

Congressman Roberts was sitting just as this lady is now, and turned the

same way. I was turned facing him. We were looking directly at each other,

The position of our car was such that when that first shot rang out, my position

was such that I did not have to turn to look at the building. I was directly

facing it.

And,

Mr. Hubert. In other words, your car was still really on Houston?

 

Mrs. Cabell. No ; we were making the turn.

 

Mr. Hubert. Just on the turn?

 

Mrs. Cabell. Just on the turn, which put us at the top of the hill, you see.

Just on the turn and on top of the hill facing directly towards the TSBD.  They were on Elm Street in the turn (intersection) facing northwest rather than west.

Dave Weigman said he jumped out of the car and ran forward to take pictures.  This was his technique for filming presidential motorcades.  He films the Mayor's Car and the National Press Pool Car as they leave the intersection.  He is on foot.  His film is 36 seconds in length.  At the end of the film he shows the rest of the motorcade with a mid motorcade motorcycle policeman passing the TSBD indicating they were about 30 seconds more or less behind the Mayor's Car.  Weigman's film does not show the National Press Pool Car stopping.  It suggests it stopped, or at least at slowed down on Elm just past the TSBD.

and later,

This photo was taken by Weigman when he was on the Elm Street afoot.  The rest of the motorcade was still held up for most of his film.  They were there for most of Weigman's film.  The original frame was shot on foot at the end of the 20 seconds since frame Z 313.  That is if the p. limo is shown leaving the plaza.

This is a Couch film frame.  It is roughly at the same time that the Weigman film shows Weigman filming the motorcade passing the TSBD.  Weigman catches the No. 1 Camera Car as it approaches him about 30 seconds into the film.  Couch's film frame show the motorcade from further up the Elm Street.  Camera Car No. 1 is about at the same place Weigman is filming them approaching him and if you look the road toward the overpass is empty with no vehicles there.  The first 12 vehicles of the motorcade have left Dealey Plaza.

Mark's animation shows that the motorcade stopped here.  Not further back at the intersection.  The motorcade does not stop until it reaches this point.  The Mayor's Car and National Press Pool Car leaves the plaza while the rest of the motorcade waits here.  This contradicts the testimony of various motorcade witnesses.  His timing of these sequences are off and not really realistic according to the Weigman and Couch films.  

Edited August 18, 2021 by John Butler

[Eddy Bainbridge]

7 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Eddy,

For a number of reasons,

I'm sticking with approx 1.8 seconds+1 frame  = 33/34zframes at 18.3fps, not necessarily all in one swoop, for now.

 

 

 

Thank you Chris. I understood your judgment is more analytical than my own. Looking around Z313, and my thoughts on the Harper fragment, and my belief a 'pause'  has been removed around this time, I see around 15-25 frames removed basically to hide the second head shot. Not in one block but clustered in this area. 

[John Butler]

10 hours ago, John Butler said:

I'll repeat Dearie Cabell's testimony again.  The Mayor's Car stopped facing directly towards the TSBD.  This was in the intersection.  The car was stopped by the patrolmen at the scene in the intersection.  They were there for at least 11 seconds probably more.  This is the alleged timing of the shots by various researchers.  They were there when they heard the 3 shots.  Most people believe the 2nd or last shot was at Z 313 which by Zapruder timing gives the p. limo 20 seconds to leave the plaza.  This conforms with the original Weigman frame posted.   They were released first and then the rest of the motorcade a short time later.  

Congressman Roberts was sitting just as this lady is now, and turned the

same way. I was turned facing him. We were looking directly at each other,

The position of our car was such that when that first shot rang out, my position

was such that I did not have to turn to look at the building. I was directly

facing it.

And,

Mr. Hubert. In other words, your car was still really on Houston?

 

Mrs. Cabell. No ; we were making the turn.

 

Mr. Hubert. Just on the turn?

 

Mrs. Cabell. Just on the turn, which put us at the top of the hill, you see.

Just on the turn and on top of the hill facing directly towards the TSBD.  They were on Elm Street in the turn (intersection) facing northwest rather than west.

Dave Weigman said he jumped out of the car and ran forward to take pictures.  This was his technique for filming presidential motorcades.  He films the Mayor's Car and the National Press Pool Car as they leave the intersection.  He is on foot.  His film is 36 seconds in length.  At the end of the film he shows the rest of the motorcade with a mid motorcade motorcycle policeman passing the TSBD indicating they were about 30 seconds more or less behind the Mayor's Car.  Weigman's film does not show the National Press Pool Car stopping.  It suggests it stopped, or at least at slowed down on Elm just past the TSBD.

and later,

This photo was taken by Weigman when he was on the Elm Street afoot.  The rest of the motorcade was still held up for most of his film.  They were there for most of Weigman's film.  The original frame was shot on foot at the end of the 20 seconds since frame Z 313.  That is if the p. limo is shown leaving the plaza.

This is a Couch film frame.  It is roughly at the same time that the Weigman film shows Weigman filming the motorcade passing the TSBD.  Weigman catches the No. 1 Camera Car as it approaches him about 30 seconds into the film.  Couch's film frame show the motorcade from further up the Elm Street.  Camera Car No. 1 is about at the same place Weigman is filming them approaching him and if you look the road toward the overpass is empty with no vehicles there.  The first 12 vehicles of the motorcade have left Dealey Plaza.

Mark's animation shows that the motorcade stopped here.  Not further back at the intersection.  The motorcade does not stop until it reaches this point.  The Mayor's Car and National Press Pool Car leaves the plaza while the rest of the motorcade waits here.  This contradicts the testimony of various motorcade witnesses.  His timing of these sequences are off and not really realistic according to the Weigman and Couch films.  

Here is more testimony by Couch concerning his activities on Houston Street as the motorcade was stopped.

Now, as you turned onto Houston, you said that you heard what you de-

scribed as a

 

Mr. Couch. It sounded like a motorcycle backfire at first — the first time

we heard it — the first shot.

 

Mr. Belin. Do you remember about where your car was at the time you

heard the first noise?

 

Mr. Couch. I would say — uh — 15 or 20 feet from the turn — from off of Main

onto Houston.

 

Mr. Belin. Fifteen or 20 feet from the turn?

 

Mr. Couch. We had already completed the turn.

 

Mr. Belin. After you had completed the turn, then 15 or 20 feet further on

you heard the first shot — the first noise?

And,

Mr. Couch. Because, I remember I was talking and we were laughing and

I was looking back to a fellow on my — that would be on my right — I don’t

know who it was — we were joking. We had just made the turn. And I heard

the first shot.

 

Mr. Belin. What happened — or what did anyone say?

 

Mr. Couch. As I recall, nothing — there was no particular reaction ; uh — noth-

ing unusual. Maybe everybody sort of looked around a little, but didn’t think

much of it. And — uh — then, in a few seconds, I guess from 4-5 seconds

later, or even less, we heard the second shot. And then we began to look — uh,

not out of thinking necessarily it was a gunshot, but we began to look in front

of us — in the motorcade in front of us. And, as I recall, I didn’t have any

particular fears or feelings at the second shot. By the third shot, I felt that

it was a rifle. Almost sure it was. And, as I said, the shots or the noises

were fairly close together, they were fairly even in sound — and — uh, by then,

one could recognize, or if he had heard a high-powered rifle, he would feel that

it was a high-powered rifle. You would get that impression.

 

Mr. Belin. Do you remember where your vehicle was by the time you heard

the third shot?

 

Mr. Couch. I’d say we were about 50 feet from making — or maybe 60 feet —

from making the left-hand turn onto Elm

Houston at this point between Main and Elm is a very short street of roughly 200 feet.  Couch says he heard 3 shots while still on Houston Street.  His vehicle was directly behind the National Press Pool Car and the Mayor’s Car at the intersection.  And, as he says that was about 50 or 60 feet from the turn.

Couch could very well have filmed the TSBD at the moment of shots.  He said he saw a rifle in a window of the TSBD.  The following testimony suggests he filmed the TSBD then but changes his story to say he begins filming in the as they turn into the intersection.

He describes the event in a rather lame way:

Mr. Belin. Where was the car when you saw this rifle being withdrawn?

 

Mr. Couch. I’d say about 25 feet before we made the turn onto Elm. Our car

was facing the south side of the building.

 

Mr. Belin. All right. Then what happened after Bob Jackson made his

exclamation and you saw what you just related?

 

Mr. Couch. Well, I picked up my camera. As I recall, I had it in my hand,

but it was down leaning against my legs. And I picked it up and made a quick

glance at a setting and raised it to my eye. And — uh — you can see from my

film that we’re just turning the corner. We start the turn and we turn the

corner, and you can see people running. As I recall, there’s a quick glance at

the front entrance of the Te,xas Depository Book Building. You can see people

running and you can see about the first three cars, maybe four, in front of me

as we complete the turn.

 

The question here is what did he do during the 11 seconds of the shot sequence and more time passes as they sit on Houston waiting for the motorcade to start?

Edited 25 minutes ago by John Butler

 

[Chris Davidson]

John,

The Cabell/Couch descriptions of their first shot reaction locations are placed fairly accurately by Mark, if you use the extant z207 splice and Robert West plotting of a shot at approx the same z207 location. imo

Couch's description is 15-20ft after the turn onto Houston St.