The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Douglas Caddy]

Read this and ask what planet these people are from.

 

Pro-Trump Tour Flies Off The Rails Over ‘Demonic Satellites’ and ‘Deep State’ McDonald’s (yahoo.com)

[Matthew Koch]

 

[Joe Bauer]

In his new audio book, famed journalist Bob Woodward reveals Trump to be "a threat to our democracy." 

Just another national stage figure publicly stating this.

Woodward's words here in todays news are devastatingly ominous in his over-all assessment of Trump as a serious threat to our democracy.

"Trump was the wrong man for the job," Woodward replied. "I realize now, two years later, all of the January 6 insurrection, leads me to the conclusion that he's not just the wrong man for the job, but he's dangerous, and he is a threat to democracy, and he's a threat to the presidency, because he doesn't understand the core obligations that come with that office."

No one can rationally defend this irrationally and dangerously afflicted man anymore.

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

Good man William.

We can both list the respective sins of Russia and the USA till the cows come home, but it’s irrelevant to the current Ukraine situation. One of the great advantages of the “Realpolitik” approach of geopolitical experts such as Prof Mearsheimer is that it avoids such moralistic pissing contests. 

I ended our previous discussion of this topic with the following couple of paragraphs:

“A manifestation of Russian exceptionalism comparable to the Ukraine situation would be, for example, as follows: the progressive Russian domination of South and Central America culminating in the intensive planting of intelligence and military assets in Mexico and the engineering of a coup there so as to instal an anti-American government.

“It’s hard to believe that the US would not view that kind of Russian aggression as an existential threat and take whatever action was deemed necessary to defeat it.”

Do you agree with that assessment, which is my attempt at a distillation of Mearsheimer’s thesis? If you don’t agree, why not?

 

PS. Please excuse the large font. I've tried to correct it to no avail.

But, John, surely as a good Irishman, you must disapprove of Putin's FSB-controlled Russian Federation imposing their autocratic empire on a smaller neighbor like Ukraine?

What does Putin's repressive police state have to offer the Ukrainian people?  Even his oligarchic economy is corrupt-- essentially a crime syndicate.

Aren't self-determination and basic liberty important values for nations?

Granted, the U.S. CIA/military complex has destroyed democratic regimes and supported dictators throughout the world in the post WWII era, but not so much in Eastern Europe.

The democracies in the former Soviet Bloc have, naturally, sought protection and autonomy from the Kremlin-- Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, the Czech Republic, etc.

The U.S. and NATO have not imposed totalitarian police states on Eastern Europe nations.

Conversely, Putin has promoted a right wing fascist regime in Hungary (and in the U.S.)

Edited October 23, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Matthew Koch]

20 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Conversely, Putin has promoted a right wing fascist regime in Hungary (and in the U.S.)

You can tell it's fascist because Tucker Carlson did his show there once.. 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

You can lead a man to data, but you can't make him think.

-- W. Niederhut

 

I've tried to lead our local Putin apologists to the data, but I can't make them think.

 

It’s interesting you mention data. You just spent a 2 years pandemic being conned with marketing data served up by big pharma, and politicians. Will it be the same with Ukraine? Almost certainly. 
 

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Chris Barnard, John, Cotter, Benjamin Cole, et.al., obviously haven't taken my advice about studying Catherine Belton's historical opus, Putin's People.   And they have repeatedly dismissed Princeton historian Stephen Kotkin's debunking of Mearsheimer.

Why would any of us take your advice. You have no expertise to offer in the situation and you fail to make a convincing argument repeatedly. You, and others also often avoid the uncomfortable questions. If I was really bored I could go back and compile a list of all the stuff you’ve point blank avoided to answer in the past two years. Then you accuse others of the same thing. It’s highly hypocritical. 
 

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

As a general rule, people should trust historians more than social theorists.  Historians focus on data, not theories.

Are these the same historians that tell the JFKA as a lone nut open shut case? The same ones who state a bunch of Arabs who did a course in flying 2 men aircraft suddenly hijacked airliners and crashed them into the world trade centres? Or the same historians who paint the last 60 years of US history as virtuous, instead of a neo-collonialism, exploitation of the developing world and legalised murder inc. ? Are you focusing on that data, William? You are so riddled with hypocrisy, paradoxes and doublethink. 
 

Its bemusing that you see 9/11 and the JFKA as conspiracies, yet you can’t/won’t see the rest of it. Its like a locked box in your mind. The blue pill means less trauma for you. 
 

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Perhaps our Putin apologists around here could, at least, take the time to study this Atlantic book review of Putin's People.

Haven’t we been critical enough of the Atlantic here? You still quote it. 
 

You can do much better than this, William. Open your eyes and mind. 
 

 

 

[Jeff Carter]

The problem with the “Putin is a psychopathic imperialist” meme is that he’s been in power over twenty years now and his recreation of the Soviet Union has consisted of:

a) a brief incursion and skirmish with Georgian troops after the latter attacked Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia (2008).

b)  the annexation of Crimea - which had been predicted by NATO analysts in 2004 if western meddling threatened the naval bases (2014)

c) Special Military Operation in Eastern Ukraine - predicted by Ambassador Burns in 2008 if efforts were made to incorporate Ukraine into NATO (2022)

That’’s thin gruel for a psychopath, and such analysis is only widely held amongst the NATO countries. The Realist perspective, on the other hand, has a long track record of incisive analysis and correct prediction based on facts, not armchair psychological projection. Ambassador Burns’ 2008 memo completely eviscerates the neoconservative position.

As per “volitional war”:  Iraq’s 1991 invasion of Kuwait appears as a classic example, as it was motivated by essentially petty slant drilling. The situation in Ukraine is far more complex - and, again, Ambassador Burns’ memorandum in 2008 clearly describes the stakes. The entire top level of the US system was explicitly warned not to move NATO into Ukraine and yet within a few months it was publicly announced that such would happen. This is a large measure of why the rest of the world is rather lukewarm in supporting NATO at this juncture.

[Steve Thomas]

'He's not man enough': Nancy Pelosi taunts Trump over subpoena appearance

by Tom Boggioni October 23, 2022

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-house-subpoena/

“Asked about the chances that Donald Trump will appear before the committee after it issued a subpoena on Friday, she laughed at the prospect.

"I don't think he is man enough to show up," she replied. "I don't think that his lawyers will want him to show up, because he has to testify under oath. But I don't think he is man enough. We will see if he is man enough to show up and the public can make their judgment."”

 

 

Ooooooohhh, and coming from a woman no less.

 

If his orange hair catches on fire, will we ever know?

Steve Thomas

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said:

The problem with the “Putin is a psychopathic imperialist” meme is that he’s been in power over twenty years now and his recreation of the Soviet Union has consisted of:

a) a brief incursion and skirmish with Georgian troops after the latter attacked Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia (2008).

b)  the annexation of Crimea - which had been predicted by NATO analysts in 2004 if western meddling threatened the naval bases (2014)

c) Special Military Operation in Eastern Ukraine - predicted by Ambassador Burns in 2008 if efforts were made to incorporate Ukraine into NATO (2022)

That’’s thin gruel for a psychopath.

Thin gruel for a psychopath, eh, Jeff?  Get a clue.

You conveniently forgot to mention Putin's systematic serial murders of journalists, critics, and disaffected associates during the past twenty years, as he destroyed the RF's nascent democracy and turned it into a totalitarian police state.

How about the poisoning and incarceration of Navalny?

Now we can add months of war crimes against Ukrainian civilians and threats of nuclear blackmail to the list of Putin's psychopathic behaviors.  Putin's psychopathy isn't a meme. It's a psychiatric fact.

I can't educate Russia Today employees, or our YouTube "scholar," Chris Barnard, but I urge the intellectually curious to read Putin's People by Catherine Belton.

Edited October 23, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Douglas Caddy]

Back to the future:

 

In Mao’s footsteps: Xi Jinping puts himself at core of China’s government | China | The Guardian

[John Cotter]

3 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

But, John, surely as a good Irishman, you must disapprove of Putin's FSB-controlled Russian Federation imposing their autocratic empire on a smaller neighbor like Ukraine?

What does Putin's repressive police state have to offer the Ukrainian people?  Even his oligarchic economy is corrupt-- essentially a crime syndicate.

Aren't self-determination and basic liberty important values for nations?

Granted, the U.S. CIA/military complex has destroyed democratic regimes and supported dictators throughout the world in the post WWII era, but not so much in Eastern Europe.

The democracies in the former Soviet Bloc have, naturally, sought protection and autonomy from the Kremlin-- Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, the Czech Republic, etc.

The U.S. and NATO have not imposed totalitarian police states on Eastern Europe nations.

Conversely, Putin has promoted a right wing fascist regime in Hungary (and in the U.S.)

William,

Despite the fact that you haven’t answered my questions, I will deal with your analogy between Russia vs Ukraine and Britain vs Ireland.

The analogy doesn’t stand up. During the 750 years of British rule in Ireland, Britain was never under the kind of sustained threat from a “full spectrum dominant” superpower as Russia has for the past few decades. During the 750 years of British rule in Ireland, there was either a multipolar geopolitical order or global dominance by Britain itself.

Moreover, by dint of the 2014 coup in Ukraine, Ukraine allied itself or was allied with the “full spectrum dominant” superpower, the USA, which had clearly declared itself by its words and deeds the mortal enemy of Russia.

As Mearsheimer said, Ukraine was not in NATO, but NATO was in Ukraine – as was the CIA. Therefore, your analogy is in effect a deflection from my questions. 

So now are you going to answer my questions?
 

Edited October 23, 2022 by John Cotter

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Thin gruel for a psychopath, eh, Jeff?  Get a clue.

You conveniently forgot to mention Putin's systematic serial murders of journalists, critics, and disaffected associates during the past twenty years, as he destroyed the RF's nascent democracy and turned it into a totalitarian police state.

How about the poisoning and incarceration of Navalny?

Now we can add months of war crimes against Ukrainian civilians and threats of nuclear blackmail to the list of Putin's psychopathic behaviors.  Putin's psychopathy isn't a meme. It's a psychiatric fact.

I can't educate Russia Today employees, or our YouTube "scholar," Chris Barnard, but I urge the intellectually curious to read Putin's People by Catherine Belton.

Sorry to say it, but you’re losing the plot, William. This mindless repetition that opinion is fact really is a strong sign that you are out of ideas. It’s clearly an inability to make a convincing argument on your part. I understand that you are frustrated, because you feel strongly about the topic. But you’re getting more and more ragged every week and I am far from the only one noticing it. I speak with plenty of academics, none ever needed to mention where they went to school in order to make a case in an argument like you do repeatedly. It’s incredibly weak, even pathetic. A little like you not even having the moral courage to discuss opinions with a Trump supporter you played golf with a week or so back. I think you said that you “didn’t have the heart to tell him that you are a democrat.” Boy is that an accurate statement from you. 
How are you going to fix your nation if you can’t even discuss the topic with someone of opposing views? 
 

PS What you said to Ben last week would have been a lot more fitting in the YouTube comments. Get it together, man. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Chris Barnard

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, John Cotter said:

William,

Despite the fact that you haven’t answered my questions, I will deal with your analogy between Russia vs Ukraine and Britain vs Ireland.

The analogy doesn’t stand up. During the 750 years of British rule in Ireland, Britain was never under the kind of sustained threat from a “full spectrum dominant” superpower as Russia has for the past few decades. During the 750 years of British rule in Ireland, there was either a multipolar geopolitical order or global dominance by Britain itself.

Moreover, by dint of the 2014 coup in Ukraine, Ukraine allied itself or was allied with the “full spectrum dominant” superpower, the USA, which had clearly declared itself by its words and deeds the mortal enemy of Russia.

As Mearsheimer said, Ukraine was not in NATO, but NATO was in Ukraine – as was the CIA. Therefore, your analogy is in effect a deflection from my questions. 

So now are you going to answer my questions?
 

John,

      My apologies.  What questions have I not answered?

      I must have missed them-- which is easy to do with all of the constant non sequiturs and Fox News and YouTube posts on the board recently.

     Also, what threats have the U.S. and NATO posed to Putin's fascist police state during the past 20 years?

     Surely you don't imagine that the U.S. and NATO have had any intention of attacking Russia militarily, do you?

     The notion is simply absurd.  If anything, the U.S. and NATO have assiduously attempted to avoid WWIII.

     Now Putin has pushed the West to the brink with his nuclear threats and brutal rape of Ukraine.

     Putin mainly feels threatened by Western economic prosperity and freedom-- and derides the West as decadent for tolerating things like free elections, term limits for democratically-elected officials, and civil rights for gay and lesbian citizens.   He is openly contemptuous of liberal democracy.

     Meanwhile, he and his GRU goons have aggressively fomented ethnic and cultural strife in Europe and the U.S. in order to divide and weaken their perceived enemies.  To what end?

     The man is evil-- a psychopath.  I've been studying him for the past 15 years, after he and his FSB goons seized the ROCOR.  I lived through that whole sordid process in the ROCOR from 2000-07.  Putin wanted the ROCOR parishes in Western Europe and the U.S. for espionage purposes.

   KGB/FSB's New Trojan Horse: Americans of Russian Descent: Konstantin Preobrazhensky, Various, Andy Glad Graphic Design: 9780615249087: Amazon.com: Books  

    

[Benjamin Cole]

I think a valid inquiry is if the US intel-state booby-trapped Putin into Ukraine. The "Deep State" is always influential, perhaps even dominant, in foreign-military affairs. 

Perhaps more so now than in recent presidencies, due to type of President we have now, a long-time member of the Senate Foreign Relations committee, a globalist, and a President who seems to be drifting, mentally speaking. 

Power abhors a vacuum. 

My concerns hardly make me a Putin apologist. Putin chose a volitional war. Russia has nukes, tactical nukes, big nukes, missiles, thousands of tanks. Horrible winters, and nothing to offer but oil (maybe wheat). No one was going to invade Russia. That's IMHO. 

I am glad the EF moderators are beginning to censor ad hominem content.

I suppose my hope is futile, but I would like to see discussions about the role of the Deep State in current affairs---people here know a lot about how the Deep State works, thanks to our reading and research on the JFKA and era. 

Sheesh--the Deep State then (the JFK days) tried to trigger a nuclear war with Russia among other measures, such as proposing an invasion of Cuba and then successfully invading Vietnam. That's just for starters. 

Has much changed? In my view, the Deep State has bigger budgets and better technology than ever. 

As back then, knowing that the Deep State tried to instigate a nuclear war does not make the Russians a bunch of nice guys, or the communists in Vietnam the real saints. 

It is simply a tempered, measured outlook. 

The US has a weak president, a strong Deep State and an easily prodded Putin. 

Caveat emptor. 

 

[W. Niederhut]

41 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

John,

      My apologies.  What questions have I not answered?

      I must have missed them-- which is easy to do with all of the constant non sequiturs and Fox News and YouTube posts on the board recently.

     Also, what threats have the U.S. and NATO posed to Putin's fascist police state during the past 20 years?

     Surely you don't imagine that the U.S. and NATO have had any intention of attacking Russia militarily, do you?

     The notion is simply absurd.  If anything, the U.S. and NATO have assiduously attempted to avoid WWIII.

     Now Putin has pushed the West to the brink with his nuclear threats and brutal rape of Ukraine.

     Putin mainly feels threatened by Western economic prosperity and freedom-- and derides the West as decadent for tolerating things like free elections, term limits for democratically-elected officials, and civil rights for gay and lesbian citizens.   He is openly contemptuous of liberal democracy.

     Meanwhile, he and his GRU goons have aggressively fomented ethnic and cultural strife in Europe and the U.S. in order to divide and weaken their perceived enemies.  To what end?

     The man is evil-- a psychopath.  I've been studying him for the past 15 years, after he and his FSB goons seized the ROCOR.  I lived through that whole sordid process in the ROCOR from 2000-07.  Putin wanted the ROCOR parishes in Western Europe and the U.S. for espionage purposes.

   KGB/FSB's New Trojan Horse: Americans of Russian Descent: Konstantin Preobrazhensky, Various, Andy Glad Graphic Design: 9780615249087: Amazon.com: Books  

    

Addendum:  Let me add that the moronic, redundant commentaries around here about the U.S. "booby-trapping" Putin into invading Ukraine are predicated on willful ignorance about Putin's true history, and his longstanding geopolitical agenda.

Our sophomoric Putin apologists-- Chris Barnard, Benjamin Cole, et.al.--need to do some remedial reading.

https://www.amazon.com/Putins-People-Took-Back-Russia/dp/0374238715/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1666572097&sr=1-2

Interference in American elections. The sponsorship of extremist politics in Europe. War in Ukraine. In recent years, Vladimir Putin’s Russia has waged a concerted campaign to expand its influence and undermine Western institutions. But how and why did all this come about, and who has orchestrated it?

In Putin’s People, the investigative journalist and former Moscow correspondent Catherine Belton reveals the untold story of how Vladimir Putin and the small group of KGB men surrounding him rose to power and looted their country. Delving deep into the workings of Putin’s Kremlin, Belton accesses key inside players to reveal how Putin replaced the freewheeling tycoons of the Yeltsin era with a new generation of loyal oligarchs, who in turn subverted Russia’s economy and legal system and extended the Kremlin's reach into the United States and Europe. The result is a chilling and revelatory exposé of the KGB’s revanche―a story that begins in the murk of the Soviet collapse, when networks of operatives were able to siphon billions of dollars out of state enterprises and move their spoils into the West. Putin and his allies subsequently completed the agenda, reasserting Russian power while taking control of the economy for themselves, suppressing independent voices, and launching covert influence operations abroad.

Ranging from Moscow and London to Switzerland and Brooklyn’s Brighton Beach―and assembling a colorful cast of characters to match―Putin’s People is the definitive account of how hopes for the new Russia went astray, with stark consequences for its inhabitants and, increasingly, the world.

Edited October 24, 2022 by W. Niederhut