The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Douglas Caddy]

[Matthew Koch]

Michael Beschloss, who says that JFK colluded with Sam Giancana through their shared girlfriend Judith Campbell to use the Mafia and CIA to attempt to assassinate Fidel Castro. Beschloss informs us that if we don't vote how 'Dark Brandon' told us to, Democracy is canceled. 
*Added Bonus* Michael's Trump conspiracy theories start at 5:00min mark. 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Matthew Koch

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Designated hitter in National League-- Good move because of Charley Finley

A travesty right up there with the GOP assault on voting rights and the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

[Douglas Caddy]

 

Saudis are funding Trump's upcoming presidential campaign.

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

Some key points here about "stochastic terrorism" and the Trump MAGA cult-- as exemplified by MAGA Bomber Cesar Sayoc, the Baltimore newspaper murders, the El Paso Walmart Massacre, the Whitmer kidnap plot, January 6th, the Pelosi hammer attack, etc.

Stochastic terror in American politics creates an environment of violence - Vox

November 5, 2022

Excerpts

1) Stochastic terror — the idea that even if people in power don’t specifically call their followers to violence, by entertaining it as a legitimate tactic or by demonizing a political enemy on a platform capable of reaching millions of people, one of those millions will be inspired to violent action — provides a framework for understanding the current moment.

2) Stochastic terrorism or stochastic terror is a unique kind of phenomenon that we’ve only really seen emerge in recent years. Stochastic is a term related to statistics that’s meant to define processes that, individually, they’re absolutely impossible to predict when and where something happens.

3) It’s important to note that stochastic terrorism, this indirect incitement, is not illegal. It’s protected by the First Amendment because the legal threshold for incitement to violence is so high. There’s a case, Brandenburg v. Ohio, where the Supreme Court ruled that for something to be incitement, there needs to be direction, and the incident needs to happen immediately after the direction. And stochastic terrorism doesn’t achieve either of those. So although the language does not meet the legal threshold for incitement, it nonetheless motivates people to actually engage in violence.

4) Most of what we call stochastic terrorism has been initiated or has been motivated by deliberately spread disinformation — that demonizes others, that tags other individuals, usually political opponents, as mortal threats. And if you look at most models for violent radicalization or radicalization to terrorism, one of the steps in those processes usually involves perceiving the intended target as being a direct mortal threat to an individual’s survival. So the kinds of disinformation that are being spun about certain targets as being these threats to the United States, to election processes, to political parties, by spinning them as mortal threats, the individual who’s exposed to the message is much more likely to perceive that person as a threat and deserving of violence against them.

 

[W. Niederhut]

Addendum:  I'm not a lawyer, but I think that Trump met the high threshold in the Brandenburg v. Ohio ruling for the direct incitement of imminent violence at the Capitol on January 6th-- especially since he knew that his angry MAGA mob was armed when he directed them to march on the Capitol.

[Douglas Caddy]

From an Ezra Klein column in today's NY Times:

 

I’ll say this for Republicans. They have not hidden their intentions or their tactics. They have made clear what they intend to do if they win. Biden ran — and won — in 2020 promising a return to normalcy. Republicans are running in 2022 promising a return to calamity.

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Some key points here about "stochastic terrorism" and the Trump MAGA cult-- as exemplified by MAGA Bomber Cesar Sayoc, the Baltimore newspaper murders, the El Paso Walmart Massacre, the Whitmer kidnap plot, January 6th, the Pelosi hammer attack, etc.

Stochastic terror in American politics creates an environment of violence - Vox

November 5, 2022

Excerpts

1) Stochastic terror — the idea that even if people in power don’t specifically call their followers to violence, by entertaining it as a legitimate tactic or by demonizing a political enemy on a platform capable of reaching millions of people, one of those millions will be inspired to violent action — provides a framework for understanding the current moment.

2) Stochastic terrorism or stochastic terror is a unique kind of phenomenon that we’ve only really seen emerge in recent years. Stochastic is a term related to statistics that’s meant to define processes that, individually, they’re absolutely impossible to predict when and where something happens.

3) It’s important to note that stochastic terrorism, this indirect incitement, is not illegal. It’s protected by the First Amendment because the legal threshold for incitement to violence is so high. There’s a case, Brandenburg v. Ohio, where the Supreme Court ruled that for something to be incitement, there needs to be direction, and the incident needs to happen immediately after the direction. And stochastic terrorism doesn’t achieve either of those. So although the language does not meet the legal threshold for incitement, it nonetheless motivates people to actually engage in violence.

4) Most of what we call stochastic terrorism has been initiated or has been motivated by deliberately spread disinformation — that demonizes others, that tags other individuals, usually political opponents, as mortal threats. And if you look at most models for violent radicalization or radicalization to terrorism, one of the steps in those processes usually involves perceiving the intended target as being a direct mortal threat to an individual’s survival. So the kinds of disinformation that are being spun about certain targets as being these threats to the United States, to election processes, to political parties, by spinning them as mortal threats, the individual who’s exposed to the message is much more likely to perceive that person as a threat and deserving of violence against them.

 

W--

What of the oft-seen sign or chant in some circles, "No Justice, No Peace"? 

I absolutely disagree with advocating or participating in any form of violence, including political, and we agree on this.  

Should those signs read, "No Justice, Then Permanent Peaceful Demonstrations."?

Such signs commonly accompanied rioting and looting, and physical attacks against some human targets. 

...

"And if you look at most models for violent radicalization or radicalization to terrorism, one of the steps in those processes usually involves perceiving the intended target as being a direct mortal threat to an individual’s survival."---W

From what I read, the 'Phants and Trumpers are portrayed thusly in many circles. One guy was on MSNBC saying your children would get killed if the 'Phants prevail in the mid-terms. 

I certainly agree the temperature needs to be taken down many notches. 

Interestingly, the NYT  may have shown the way. In their humanizing, sympathetic portrayal of the staunch Trumper, Ray Epps, he was presented as a productive citizen, loving husband who doted on his dogs. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/us/politics/jan-6-conspiracy-theory-ray-epps.html

What if there were more balanced portrayals in both left- and tight-wing media, instead of the constant demonization?

Why is the M$M trying to divide us? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

2 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

A travesty right up there with the GOP assault on voting rights and the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

heh heh

Yeah I've been with you on that for over 40 years!They are obviously trying to get more hits and bases. I found this out only a few years ago. Did you know that nearly all amateur, collegiate, and professional leagues worldwide have adopted the designated hitter or some variant,^[4] with the notable exception of Nippon Professional Baseball's Central League.  Which is a league in Japan. All the Dominican, Latin American leagues use the DH now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_hitter

I know it shouldn't matter what everyone else is doing. But that's why we are  on such a run losing All Star games. They have 12 and half % more hitters to pick from, and the same amount of pitchers.. Of course you can argue All Star games don't mean anything anymore anyway. But I get your sentiments.

[Kirk Gallaway]

27 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

One guy was on MSNBC saying your children would get killed if the 'Phants prevail in the mid-terms. 

You got a source and exact quote on that?

Of course if you have guns or weapons, you're much more likely to be able to act out your hostilities.

Re what  W. said. I remember at the beginning, I thought for example with Caesar Sayoc mailing those pipe bombs to anti Trump figures. The MSM was almost sort of matter of fact  about it.  I think they've used too much  restraint about it up to now. I think Matt brought up the background of the Highland Park guy, and some social media from citizens who lived in the area who said he was definitely politically motivated.

There is definitely a climate of permission,  and Trump has not shown any level of condemnation to make it look like it's anything more than the sort of obligatory thing  any politician would say.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

You got a source and exact quote on that?

This is the exact dialogue.@Kirk Gallaway

[Matthew Koch]

 

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

You got a source and exact quote on that?

Of course if you have guns or weapons, you're much more likely to be able to act out your hostilities.

Re what  W. said. I remember at the beginning, I thought for example with Caesar Sayoc mailing those pipe bombs to anti Trump figures. The MSM was almost sort of matter of fact  about it.  I think they've used too much  restraint about it up to now. I think Matt brought up the background of the Highland Park guy, and some social media from citizens who lived in the area who said he was definitely politically motivated.

There is definitely a climate of permission,  and Trump has not shown any level of condemnation to make it look like it's anything more than the sort of obligatory thing  any politician would say.

It's worse than that, Kirk.

Trump has been "stochastically" promoting right wing violence in the U.S. since 2016-- as the American University professor described in the Vox article I posted above.

And Trump has done this in a way that is technically legal-- at least prior to January 6th.

But he crossed the Brandenburg v. Ohio line on the morning of January 6th, IMO.

[Joe Bauer]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Addendum:  I'm not a lawyer, but I think that Trump met the high threshold in the Brandenburg v. Ohio ruling for the direct incitement of imminent violence at the Capitol on January 6th-- especially since he knew that his angry MAGA mob was armed when he directed them to march on the Capitol.

Totally agree.

[Joe Bauer]

Nancy Pelosi should publicly demand public apologies from all the Republican party members and Fox news anchors who not just came right out publicly on national TV and on major media internet sites and slandered her husband with disgusting perversion conspiracy theories regarding his injurious attack by a Trump nut, but also those that inferred such by citing other people's media comments and postings...including Donald Trump.

Now that we know none of those disgusting and slanderous Paul Pelosi self-causing proclamations were true...Nancy Pelosi has all the moral right to call for these apologies.