John Cotter Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: Hot off the presses from the reality-based community - Three professors from New York University plus three from Europe have combined to produce this detailed statistical study: Exposure to the Russian Internet Research Agency foreign influence campaign on Twitter in the 2016 US election and its relationship to attitudes and voting behavior from the Abstract: “Using longitudinal survey data from US respondents linked to their Twitter feeds, we quantify the relationship between exposure to the Russian foreign influence campaign and attitudes and voting behavior in the 2016 US election. We demonstrate, first, that exposure to Russian disinformation accounts was heavily concentrated: only 1% of users accounted for 70% of exposures. Second, exposure was concentrated among users who strongly identified as Republicans. Third, exposure to the Russian influence campaign was eclipsed by content from domestic news media and politicians. Finally, we find no evidence of a meaningful relationship between exposure to the Russian foreign influence campaign and changes in attitudes, polarization, or voting behavior.” https://archive.is/F12dh This corroborates what any reasonably intelligent honest observer would conclude from the shenanigans surrounding the 2016 election. The reason the Democrats lost is that they've long ago abandoned the people and principles they profess to represent – ordinary (in other words, non-rich) people who want some semblance of a fair deal. Blaming the Russians is a deflection from this catastrophic political betrayal. As for the Republicans, they do what they always do – screw the plebs on behalf of their plutocratic masters. The only good thing to be said about them is that at least they’re a little more honest in that respect. This utterly dysfunctional political situation is not unique to the USA. It’s typical of the pseudo democracy which prevails throughout the western world, whereby governments don’t represent ordinary people but instead facilitate their exploitation and gaslighting. Edited January 14, 2023 by John Cotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 8 minutes ago, John Cotter said: This corroborates what any reasonably intelligent honest observer would conclude from the shenanigans surrounding the 2016 election. The reason the Democrats lost is that they've long ago abandoned the people and principles they profess to represent – ordinary (in other words, non-rich) people who want some semblance of a fair deal. Blaming the Russians is a deflection from this catastrophic political betrayal. As for the Republicans, they do what they always do – screw the plebs on behalf of their plutocratic masters. The only good thing to be said about them is that at least they’re a little more honest in that respect. This utterly dysfunctional political situation is not unique to the USA. It’s typical of the pseudo democracy which prevails throughout the western world, whereby governments don’t represent ordinary people but instead facilitate their exploitation and gaslighting. In large part, I think you have summed matters up nicely. The present day purpose of both parties to fan partisan enmity and related debauchery, and not governance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Investigating the executive branch: https://amgreatness.com/2023/01/12/what-the-january-6-videos-will-show/ This author is too easily swayed by the idea there were federal provocateurs in the Jan. 6 event, but... She does raise an interesting point: Why are 14,000 hours of video footage from in and around the Capitol building that day...being kept secret? The government is giving the usual "protect sources and methods and for security" response as a reason to withhold evidence. That seems flimsy, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cotter Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 42 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said: In large part, I think you have summed matters up nicely. The present day purpose of both parties to fan partisan enmity and related debauchery, and not governance. Thank you Benjamin. I await the usual ad hominems from soi disant exemplars of civility, enlightenment and perspicacity predicated on the deluded notion that baseless imputations of my alleged shortcomings or transgressions constitute logical rebuttal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 25 minutes ago, John Cotter said: Thank you Benjamin. I await the usual ad hominems from soi disant exemplars of civility, enlightenment and perspicacity predicated on the deluded notion that baseless imputations of my alleged shortcomings or transgressions constitute logical rebuttal. It is sad, that even in this forum, there is resort to overt and rank partisan enmity, and ad hominem insults. Maybe in the future I will disagree with one of your views. Then I will express disagreement. For example, I think we disagree on Russia's role in Ukraine---Putin strikes me as an unwarranted aggressor. The results are horrible, inhumane, IMHO. I will tell you so, and you can reply in kind, with your views. Is that so hard to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, John Cotter said: This corroborates what any reasonably intelligent honest observer would conclude from the shenanigans surrounding the 2016 election. The reason the Democrats lost is that they've long ago abandoned the people and principles they profess to represent – ordinary (in other words, non-rich) people who want some semblance of a fair deal. John, You're a sharp guy, but you don't really understand American political history very well. And following Ben Cole on the subject brings to mind the old adage, "When the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch." The truth is that Donald Trump was always a pseudo-populist-- a closet plutocrat. He beguiled poor whites in the U.S. by appealing to their bigotry and fear of immigrants. In the 2016 election, Donald Trump fraudulently sold himself to working class whites as a populist. It was a scam, like everything Donald Trump has ever done in his career as a snake oil salesman. He was, in reality, a plutocratic, Koch brother's Trojan Horse in the guise of a populist-- as some of us recognized at the time. Case in point. Trump repeatedly claimed in 2016 that he had "a terrific healthcare plan" for America, to replace Obamacare, that would "cover everyone and cost less." At the time, as a physician, I thought Trump was planning a single-payer system that would remove corporate insurance profiteers from the equation. Fast forward to March of 2017. Trump never had a healthcare plan. He lied bigly. Instead, he endorsed Paul Ryan's "no care" plan to gut Obamacare and cut funding for Medicare and Medicaid-- with no replacement plan! In effect, millions of working class Americans would have lost their health insurance under the Trump/Ryan No Care Plan. I was truly shocked in March of 2017 to realize that Trump had been telling a bald-faced lie in 2016 about having a "terrific healthcare plan." Trump's signature legislative "achievement" in 2017, with full control of a Republican Congress, was to pass a massive tax cut for billionaires and corporations, which included a rider to sabotage America's Obamacare system by abolishing the individual mandate. A policy disaster. The December 2017 bill also slashed funding for healthcare for the poor-- the Kennedy Medicare and Medicaid programs! The end result is that Trump and the Republican plutocrats added $8 trillion dollars to the U.S. debt in just 4 years-- just as Bush and Cheney had doubled the national debt from 2001-09 with their tax cuts for the wealthy (in 2001 and 2003.) As for Jeff Carter's Russia blurb, let's recall that Russian military intelligence meddling on behalf of Trump in the 2016 U.S. election went far beyond fake social media accounts by Russian xxxxx farms. It also involved systematic hacking of voter registration databases in multiple U.S. states, and the hacking and selective leaking of DNC and U.S. State Department Emails. Here's the definitive Republican-controlled U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee Report on Russian interference in the U.S. 2016 election on behalf of Putin's puppet, Donald Trump. I have urged Ben Cole and Mathew Koch to read this, without success. Publications | Intelligence Committee (senate.gov) Edited January 14, 2023 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cotter Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 43 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: John, You're a sharp guy, but you don't really understand American political history very well. And following Ben Cole on the subject brings to mind the old adage, "When the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch." The truth is that Donald Trump was always a pseudo-populist-- a closet plutocrat. He beguiled poor whites in the U.S. by appealing to their bigotry and fear of immigrants. In the 2016 election, Donald Trump fraudulently sold himself to working class whites as a populist. It was a scam, like everything Donald Trump has ever done in his career as a snake oil salesman. He was, in reality, a plutocratic, Koch brother's Trojan Horse in the guise of a populist-- as some of us recognized at the time. Case in point. Trump repeatedly claimed in 2016 that he had "a terrific healthcare plan" for America, to replace Obamacare, that would "cover everyone and cost less." At the time, as a physician, I thought Trump was planning a single-payer system that would remove corporate insurance profiteers from the equation. Fast forward to March of 2017. Trump never had a healthcare plan. He lied bigly. Instead, he endorsed Paul Ryan's "no care" plan to gut Obamacare and cut funding for Medicare and Medicaid-- with no replacement plan! In effect, millions of working class Americans would have lost their health insurance under the Trump/Ryan No Care Plan. I was truly shocked in March of 2017 to realize that Trump had been telling a bald-faced lie in 2016 about having a "terrific healthcare plan." Trump's signature legislative "achievement" in 2017, with full control of a Republican Congress, was to pass a massive tax cut for billionaires and corporations, which included a rider to sabotage America's Obamacare system by abolishing the individual mandate. A policy disaster. The December 2017 bill also slashed funding for healthcare for the poor-- the Kennedy Medicare and Medicaid programs! The end result is that Trump and the Republican plutocrats added $8 trillion dollars to the U.S. debt in just 4 years-- just as Bush and Cheney had doubled the national debt from 2001-09 with their tax cuts for the wealthy (in 2001 and 2003.) As for Jeff Carter's Russia blurb, let's recall that Russian military intelligence meddling on behalf of Trump in the 2016 U.S. election went far beyond fake social media accounts by Russian xxxxx farms. It also involved systematic hacking of voter registration databases in multiple U.S. states, and the hacking and selective leaking of DNC and U.S. State Department Emails. Here's the definitive Republican-controlled U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee Report on Russian interference in the U.S. 2016 election on behalf of Putin's puppet, Donald Trump. I have urged Ben Cole and Mathew Koch to read this, without success. Publications | Intelligence Committee (senate.gov) William, Thanks for illustrating the point I made in my last post and thus validating the substance of the one preceding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cotter Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 48 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said: It is sad, that even in this forum, there is resort to overt and rank partisan enmity, and ad hominem insults. Maybe in the future I will disagree with one of your views. Then I will express disagreement. For example, I think we disagree on Russia's role in Ukraine---Putin strikes me as an unwarranted aggressor. The results are horrible, inhumane, IMHO. I will tell you so, and you can reply in kind, with your views. Is that so hard to do? Benjamin, Yes, we disagree on the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and I think we’ve managed to articulate our respective positions in a civil manner, which I very much appreciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 I reckon after they lose in 2024, the GOP will learn that coddling domestic terrorists is not the pathway to victory... https://www.ibj.com/articles/indy-laboratory-fires-manager-who-threated-california-congressman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said: John, You're a sharp guy, but you don't really understand American political history very well. And following Ben Cole on the subject brings to mind the old adage, "When the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch." The truth is that Donald Trump was always a pseudo-populist-- a closet plutocrat. He beguiled poor whites in the U.S. by appealing to their bigotry and fear of immigrants. In the 2016 election, Donald Trump fraudulently sold himself to working class whites as a populist. It was a scam, like everything Donald Trump has ever done in his career as a snake oil salesman. He was, in reality, a plutocratic, Koch brother's Trojan Horse in the guise of a populist-- as some of us recognized at the time. Case in point. Trump repeatedly claimed in 2016 that he had "a terrific healthcare plan" for America, to replace Obamacare, that would "cover everyone and cost less." At the time, as a physician, I thought Trump was planning a single-payer system that would remove corporate insurance profiteers from the equation. Fast forward to March of 2017. Trump never had a healthcare plan. He lied bigly. Instead, he endorsed Paul Ryan's "no care" plan to gut Obamacare and cut funding for Medicare and Medicaid-- with no replacement plan! In effect, millions of working class Americans would have lost their health insurance under the Trump/Ryan No Care Plan. I was truly shocked in March of 2017 to realize that Trump had been telling a bald-faced lie in 2016 about having a "terrific healthcare plan." Trump's signature legislative "achievement" in 2017, with full control of a Republican Congress, was to pass a massive tax cut for billionaires and corporations, which included a rider to sabotage America's Obamacare system by abolishing the individual mandate. A policy disaster. The December 2017 bill also slashed funding for healthcare for the poor-- the Kennedy Medicare and Medicaid programs! The end result is that Trump and the Republican plutocrats added $8 trillion dollars to the U.S. debt in just 4 years-- just as Bush and Cheney had doubled the national debt from 2001-09 with their tax cuts for the wealthy (in 2001 and 2003.) As for Jeff Carter's Russia blurb, let's recall that Russian military intelligence meddling on behalf of Trump in the 2016 U.S. election went far beyond fake social media accounts by Russian xxxxx farms. It also involved systematic hacking of voter registration databases in multiple U.S. states, and the hacking and selective leaking of DNC and U.S. State Department Emails. Here's the definitive Republican-controlled U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee Report on Russian interference in the U.S. 2016 election on behalf of Putin's puppet, Donald Trump. I have urged Ben Cole and Mathew Koch to read this, without success. Publications | Intelligence Committee (senate.gov) Exactly my take on Trump as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said: John, You're a sharp guy, but you don't really understand American political history very well. And following Ben Cole on the subject brings to mind the old adage, "When the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch." The truth is that Donald Trump was always a pseudo-populist-- a closet plutocrat. He beguiled poor whites in the U.S. by appealing to their bigotry and fear of immigrants. In the 2016 election, Donald Trump fraudulently sold himself to working class whites as a populist. It was a scam, like everything Donald Trump has ever done in his career as a snake oil salesman. He was, in reality, a plutocratic, Koch brother's Trojan Horse in the guise of a populist-- as some of us recognized at the time. Case in point. Trump repeatedly claimed in 2016 that he had "a terrific healthcare plan" for America, to replace Obamacare, that would "cover everyone and cost less." At the time, as a physician, I thought Trump was planning a single-payer system that would remove corporate insurance profiteers from the equation. Fast forward to March of 2017. Trump never had a healthcare plan. He lied bigly. Instead, he endorsed Paul Ryan's "no care" plan to gut Obamacare and cut funding for Medicare and Medicaid-- with no replacement plan! In effect, millions of working class Americans would have lost their health insurance under the Trump/Ryan No Care Plan. I was truly shocked in March of 2017 to realize that Trump had been telling a bald-faced lie in 2016 about having a "terrific healthcare plan." Trump's signature legislative "achievement" in 2017, with full control of a Republican Congress, was to pass a massive tax cut for billionaires and corporations, which included a rider to sabotage America's Obamacare system by abolishing the individual mandate. A policy disaster. The December 2017 bill also slashed funding for healthcare for the poor-- the Kennedy Medicare and Medicaid programs! The end result is that Trump and the Republican plutocrats added $8 trillion dollars to the U.S. debt in just 4 years-- just as Bush and Cheney had doubled the national debt from 2001-09 with their tax cuts for the wealthy (in 2001 and 2003.) As for Jeff Carter's Russia blurb, let's recall that Russian military intelligence meddling on behalf of Trump in the 2016 U.S. election went far beyond fake social media accounts by Russian xxxxx farms. It also involved systematic hacking of voter registration databases in multiple U.S. states, and the hacking and selective leaking of DNC and U.S. State Department Emails. Here's the definitive Republican-controlled U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee Report on Russian interference in the U.S. 2016 election on behalf of Putin's puppet, Donald Trump. I have urged Ben Cole and Mathew Koch to read this, without success. Publications | Intelligence Committee (senate.gov) This is a well written piece which counters the usual Ben non specific garbage, and John's piggybacking on it, with neither having any specific knowledge what they're talking, which John can be forgiven for since he's not expected to have any specific knowledge about U.S. politics. It is an infinitely more interesting piece, written out of personal experience and observation as opposed to Ben's repetitive cacophony, of striking out about his current discontent and blaming it on his country of origin, which is purely computer driven, article based, angst because he hasn't been there for over 20 years. I'll take experience and good writing any day to inexperience and regretful moaning. Edited January 14, 2023 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cotter Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 25 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said: This is a well written piece which counters the usual Ben non specific garbage, and John's piggybacking on it, with neither having any specific knowledge what they're talking, which John can be forgiven for since he's not expected to have any specific knowledge about U.S. politics. It is an infinitely more interesting piece, written out of personal experience and observation as opposed to Ben's repetitive cacophony, of striking out about his current discontent and blaming it on his country of origin, which is purely computer driven, article based, angst because he hasn't been there for over 20 years. I'll take experience and good writing any day to inexperience and regretful moaning. Thanks for this further validation, Kirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) I do wish people, especially in this forum, could express their views without ad hominem hostilities. OK, some people disagree with my views. In fact, John Cotter and I disagree on Russia/Ukraine. But somehow Cotter does not feel the need to denigrate my intelligence, or define me as a Deep State tool or a dunce who believes US propaganda. We disagree, and we express our views. That is called civil discourse. Edited January 14, 2023 by Benjamin Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Uh...Well, Welcome aboard, John!. Oh come on Ben, stop making accusations and get that perpetual stick out of your butt. Listening to you whine about your native country is about as powerful as a 70 year old complaining about his parents! Particularly when you haven't seen both in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said: Uh...Well, Welcome aboard, John!. Oh come on Ben, stop making accusations and get that perpetual stick out of your butt. Listening to you whine about your native country is about as powerful as a 70 year old complaining about his parents! Particularly when you haven't seen both in years. This is not a contribution to the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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