The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Kirk Gallaway]

14 hours ago, Miles Massicotte said:

Hi Kirk, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I am of the belief that geopolitics is the undercurrent for almost all political moves by the major players (and not only internationally but even domestically at times). Syria, for example. I agree with you. But there is a larger geopolitical point, which is that Syria was a geopolitical target for both the United States and Russia. So I believe that the United States motives in that country did go even beyond the oil. But the point I was trying to make was that Trump, by saying we are leaving troops in for the oil, exposes the larger propaganda that intervention in Syria was necessary for "democracy", "freedom", etc. 

I agree domestically that the supreme court appointments have had serious repercussions and are one of the largest damning features of the Trump administration. The number of stories about women being forced to move states to abort fesuses that are not viable, such as this woman in Louisiana, are heartbreaking.

Citizen's United was a ruling that occurred during the Obama adminstration, so Trump can't be blamed for that.

W., I am heartened to see that you have not lost your rightful skepticism of institutions such as the FBI and CIA, however I fear that may not be the case not only for the baby boomer generation but for the population at-large. A relatively recent Pew poll largely shows public trust in the CIA and FBI. Furthermore, mainstream media has been an active ally of both institutions in recent years, most notably their embarrassing idolatry of entrenched figures such as Comey (who you rightfully criticize for his handling of the Clinton emails), Mueller, and Brennan. Not to mention the truly depressing alliance that occurred under during the Trump years between democrats (and democratic/liberal identifying TV talking heads) and Bush-era white house officials, examples including  Colin Powell and Christine Whitman speaking at the 2020 Democratic Convention, and Steve Schmidt, David Frum, and Bill Kristol (among others) being given frequent speaking slots as guests on MSNBC, a television channel that all but branded itself as the home for Bush/neocon opposition in the 2000s. The treatment of Trump as an aberration has extended to statements by certain talking heads even expressing fond remembrance of the Bush years, threatening a rehabilitation of the reputation of the Bush years themselves, years which caused the needless deaths of millions.

The point is this: Trump was used as a whipping boy to cement support for federal institutions such as the FBI, CIA, and the Pentagon. The Overton window of American politics is exceedingly small, and the true differences between Democrats and Republicans are usually limited to minor differences in domestic issues (abortion being a major exception that I can think of, although that is its own interesting discussion). The majority of politicians are united in their support of the very apparatus JFK was trying to dismantle. The Trump presidency threatened to expose this, and reveal the mainly unscrutinized overlap between the neoconservative and neoliberal politics that dominate American politics. They used the aberrative Trump phenomenon to sell the FBI and CIA as unassailable institutions in the eyes of the American public, and to make an example of anyone who dares to think otherwise.

There is no question that Trump is a racist, and gives a platform to racist ideologies that had essentially been largely and rightfully suppressed for decades. But, about 74 million Americans voted for Donald Trump in 2020. The Biden administration has been exceedingly clear in their weaponization of the term "MAGA Republicans" (see BIden's most recent speech). As noted in my original post, Biden's press secretary recently described anyone who holds an opinion differing from the majority as holding extremist views.

"There’s no question that the Republican Party today is dominated by Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans." -President Biden

Are the white nationalists of whom you speak the dominating force of the republican party? Are you prepared to produce data that supports that over 38 million people in America are white nationalist fascists, thus constituting the majority of Trump voters and therefore the dominating force in the party? If you are not, by what mechanism are "MAGA Republicans" such a threat?

If you plan to use Jan. 6th as an example, as you note above, you would be wise in following the wisdom of the crowd, who agrees with you, but incorrect in your use of the word "coup" to describe it. It was certainly violent, but if Jan. 6th was a "coup", it was the most pathetic coup attempt I can imagine. As widely reported on the day of the event, when the protesters entered the capitol, they didn't know what to do. Many of them took selfies. Typically a coup tries to result in the overthrow of the government, which was not remotely a threat on that day. The protesters, and indeed a contingent of Trump's voters, are violent and ascribe to white nationalist extremism, including likely many of those who stormed the capitol. To leap from there and to describe them as "the closest we've come" to a fascist disaster is a leap that requires substantial evidence that I would love to see. In addition to explaining how so-called MAGA republicans are the dominating force of the party, I would think a reasonable mechanism by which they would be able to gain power and impose their ideologies on the country would be necessary. A helpful start for you would be pointing out which actions occurred under the Trump administration that evidence this. I am all ears.

Trump has spawned a lot of negativity, largely intentionally. But the impact of that negativity on the status quo of American politics has been minimal, especially in comparison to the campaign made against it, which has been so far-reaching as to be historic, and rarely actually combative of it in any meaningful way. In my opinion your skepticism of the racist Trump cult, while healthy, is misguided.

(I have strong feelings about the Russia investigation, which you raise, some of which pertain to this discussion, however I dare not raise my own opinions and will save them for a future post, for fear of entering into a discussion solely on the merits of that topic.)
 

As a university professor, I would be literally shooting myself in the foot if I thought education is awful. Let's read each other's words carefully.

Ben, I really appreciate your posts and your takes around here a lot, and thanks for the kind words. I get your point on Cohen and I agree. I would only say, if you take a look at Republican party platforms' attitudes towards China since 1968, you can see that since 1972, when Nixon/Kissinger reignited economic relations with China, that the republican condemnation of China has only been towards "human rights" and its treatment of Taiwan; economic cooperation with China has not been questioned by the repubs since at least Nixon. So I don't think the change in attitude towards China is a recent phenomenon. I do however think unprecedented and bi-partisan trust in the security state (FBI, CIA, Pentagon) is recent and dangerous. I mean, something like the Church Committee would be absolutely unfathomable in today's day and age.

Great stuff Miles! a lot to unpack. I'll deal with a chunk of it.

Miles:and this forum's misguided hatred of Trump.

In what way misguided? There's a variety of reactions to Trump here. Some of it is, heavy moral condemnation emphasizing Trump as a vile, evil person. I thought I'd try to dispassionately tell you the political issues we have about the Trump Presidency. The people here who tend to minimize the danger of Trump are pitifully weak on issues and any real sort of political philosophy. Whatever philosophy you're projecting on Trump, he is effectively a Mitch Mac Connell Republican in a time, that  some neophytes will tell you that the 2 parties are the same. I notice even you seem on the surface to be saying this,

Miles:and the true differences between Democrats and Republicans are usually limited to minor differences in domestic issues

That's true, but it has little real meaning because most people don't vote in their interests. Whatever the guy in the street says. To keep on "substantive issues" I've probably spent a bit longer watching this than you have  and I can tell you it's a fact that there's no greater difference between the 2 parties as there is now, The 2 parties have polarized to the extent that that one wants to shrink the size of government and bring the social safety net to a size  comparable to the 50's while the other has been polarized to project that government can solve many ills of society. If you don't realize this, you're not living in the present political reality , and continually harping on how the 2 parties  foreign policies have melded together is a real problem, but unfortunately it's not going to be solved soon. And you have to have some form of priorities. That comes with some sense of organization. Another sense that those who minimize the danger of Trump don't have. And despite all the whinin' and the cryin' and the shootin' and the dyin' in Ukraine.The real issues right now are domestic. Sure that could possibly change on a dime.

 

So are we going to wait out being partisan at all concerning the 2 parties, because some intellectually lazy people have been saying for 50 years that the 2 parties are exactly the same, and are not even present enough to see what's currently going on?

And are we going to "reserve" judgment about Trump, (despite the fact that he's so careless and inept he doesn't even bother to hide his tracks), because he's being investigated by the law. Oh! not  the law, but the "Deep State?"  My guess is that people who hold those views are so muddled, they've probably never taken any real concrete action about anything. Much less hold to a topic, but I guess that's just me.

Miles:The once feared FBI, CIA, and federal government have now been successfully propagandized as the "good guys", to such an extent never before seen in history that no major political party deigns to question their authority or allegiance.

Unfortunately, all this is happening concurrently with the Trump investigations, and there's a lot of dualistic or binary thinking. Either people believe in Trump, some are slavishly devoted, but  some are forgiving of his foibles as , "that's just who he is" or "he's like a innocent young boy, but I love his policies!". And then on the other hand you have the criminal justice system or as some here on this conspiracy forum call  "the Deep State". Like there's nothing in between? I like your first post about your concern of our future rights eroding. But being able to reconcile that the criminals be prosecuted, no matter who they are is about as easy for me  to process as LBJ's being able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

The issues you've raised about future rights and technology are very real. And it's true to say that the nature of government is to fill into gaps of human rights. Government is ever more intrusive, mostly because technology is a runaway train. In Europe the tech companies don't have near the power they have in the U.S. In my personal experience, I just felt in the mid 90's, with the advent of the internet, a huge group of the younger generation just gave up their rights overnight it seemed. At first I was alarmed, then I was leery, but sure enough. I just ended up following suit!

 

As regard to what W. has said. I am a boomer, I can't think of a more unsettling time then when I grew up, lots of protests, demonstrations about Civil Rights and an ongoing war, drugs, and resultant crime. With each succeeding generation I was hoping they'd rebel like we rebelled, but my expectation grew less over generations and now it never happened and it's been 50 years. I look at the succeeding generations including my own kids and my observation is that it's actually gotten tamer. Which don't get me wrong is a good thing.  Of  course I lived in a middle class strata and have been fortunate that some things haven't completely degenerated as they have with others.

 

Which is not to say, there aren't severe economic problems facing the younger generations. And their seeming complacency could also turn on a dime, but it seems their direction is also muddled and part of it could be  explaining what they don't understand about their current problems  in term of omnipotent conspiracies.

 

The concern for free speech rights is very healthy, but I do often wonder, has there really been a great issue for the succeeding generations  of government harassment? You might mention a sort of self imposed censorship on University campuses. But have you ever been on a FBI list? Were you ever really experiencing drug laws at their most Draconian? or discrimination or jail simply for the way you look? Anybody can pretty much look whatever way they want now. Ok, to a great extent. Have you ever even been audited with your taxes? What kind of government overreach can you claim? I think  a lot of it, is people completely off the radar crying wolf! Frankly sometimes on this forum I wonder if it's a call for recognition or prominence.

 

But the real issue regarding the technocracy intruding on our lives is that is the public is just not aware and nobody has articulated a policy that anyone can truly understand. But to paint it with a big deep state brush is not correct either. Do you know the IRS works with a 40 year old computer systems? I'd be for completely modernizing and streamlining them, simplify the tax code a bit and go after the mega wealthy tax cheats. Does that make me a "Deep Statesman?"  heh heh

 

Re Trump:, I think criminals have to prosecuted. I think Trump's been treated with kid gloves about everything including the scope of every previous investigation and the ongoing investigations. Forgive me if I don't follow the forum suit and shake in my boots at the mere mention of the "Deep State". I think in this case, they can just as often be splintered and pretty inept. But right now I have to be content that justice is a long process and I'm going have to wait and see.

 

Still in 2 months, if Trump's candidates fail, and the Democrats even keep the Senate the Republicans could just dump Trump and his only recourse would be (if he's around of course)  in 2024 to run for President under his third party, which could only benefit the Democrats. So there's a lot happening that could change the equation.

 

******

 

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Douglas Caddy]

Or take a bath.

[Steve Thomas]

Post Deleted

Edited October 14, 2022 by Steve Thomas

[Douglas Caddy]

Federalist Society rules 

Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Fight Shows How Much He Reshaped the Courts (msn.com)

[Mark Knight]

On 9/9/2022 at 12:59 AM, W. Niederhut said:

Miles,

     Who among us views the CIA and FBI as "good guys?"  Certainly not the vast majority of Boomers!  Our generation lived through the Cold War, Bay of Pigs, the JFK, MLK, and RFK assassinations, Civil Rights violence, the bombings of Southeast Asia by LBJ and Nixon, Watergate, Iran-Contra, and the Bush-Cheney "War on Terror" in Afghanistan and Iraq.  So most of us have always been generally suspicious about the CIA, FBI, and the police.

      We lived through COINTELPRO.  As an example, I'm reasonably certain that I was flagged by Bush and Cheney's No Fly watchlist after 9/11, for getting involved in a campus movement to Free Mandela back in the 70s.

      We were consistently lied to and manipulated by our own mainstream media for decades. 

     And JFK was the last POTUS who really tried to take on the Deep State and the military industrial complex.  Every subsequent POTUS has cooperated with the military industrial complex, to varying extents.

     As for recent FBI issues, James Comey and the FBI played a major role in helping Trump get elected in 2016.  They leaked weekly rumors about Hillary's Emails to the media in the months prior to the election, then announced an FBI "investigation" of Anthony Weiner's laptop one week before the election, dramatically altering the polls.

     Later, Trump actively tried to blame the FBI for belatedly investigating his 2016 campaign contacts with Kremlin assets.  He tried to blame Obama, ("Spy-gate") Sally Yates, then James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Robert Mueller, etc.-- all the while actively denying that Putin had interfered in our election to install Trump in the White House.

     Now the Trump cult is enraged at the FBI for confiscating Trump's illegal trove of classified documents from Mar-a-Lago., while remaining mostly silent about Trump's January 6th coup attempt and his co-conspirators in the Secret Service, DHS, and Pentagon.

     If you're truly concerned about fascism in the U.S., the Trump cult is the closest we've come to that disaster.

     I agree with your point about our corporate globalist plutocracy, but the "extremists" in the Trump cult that Biden expressed concerns about recently are, basically, white nationalist fascists-- the people threatening and/or attacking our government institutions-- the Congress, (on January 6th) state houses, election officials, etc.

     

     

      

Amen.

The FBI and the CIA in the '60s... if you lived through that era, you knew not to trust anything they said. If you were a male with long hair and a beard, you were a target no matter what your politics.

I had long hair and a beard in the '60s and '70s. Still have the beard to this day. 

But the turn toward fascism under Nixon was NOTHING in comparison to the Trump-led cultists. The oligarchy will financially support them because keeping the people divided sells merch. Of course, selling nuclear secrets is a different matter...but oligarchs also finance wars, so they get paid if it all turns violent.

[Mark Knight]

On 9/9/2022 at 11:33 AM, Douglas Caddy said:

Headline from today's Houston Chronical about Texas public school teachers: The goal of the rightwing extremists is to destroy public education or bend it to where is espouses conservative misinformation. 

Poll: 77% of Texas teachers want to quit

The agenda from the right starts with vouchers, to siphon students and money from public schools to private schools. Once their goal is met and public schools are closed, then the states "turn off the tap" for vouchers... likely citing a state "fiscal crisis."

THEN who goes to school and who doesn't? Rich kids go to school. Poor children are left without education. You say TODAY'S educational system is "classist?"

Just wait until we revert to a new feudal system.

And oligarchs will have won, at least until the next uprising with torches and pitchforks.

[Mark Knight]

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

CPAC Dallas August 6, 2022

 

 

Steve Thomas

When they tell you who they are... believe them.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Mark Knight said:

When they tell you who they are... believe them.

 

Mark K--

As far as I can tell, Donk messaging on Labor Day was...MAGA is a threat to democracy. 

Does Biden ever say, "Lower taxes on wages is the No. 1 Donk goal." ? 

Why not?  Seems like a great goal to me. 

Does Biden ever say, "You know, tight labor markets are good for labor and so tight labor markets are good for America." ? (I believe this, BTW). 

Instead....

"Biden Hits the Campaign Trail on Labor Day, Renews Attacks on 'Extreme Right’"--Voice of America. 

Biden said in his creepy Philly soliloquy that he was presenting not a campaign speech, but an official statement from the Presidency, that is from the  federal government. 

That is, the federal government regards MAGA Republicans as a threat to democracy. Ergo, we can expect the federal police apparatus to follow suit? 

None of this makes you uneasy? 

You realize that every enlargement of the national security state is more-or-less permanent? 

 

 

[Matt Allison]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

That is, the federal government regards MAGA Republicans as a threat to democracy.

That's because they are a threat to democracy.

[Matt Allison]

 

[Matt Allison]

Remember Dandy Don Meredith on Monday Night Football? "Turn out the lights, the party's over..."

https://news.yahoo.com/moscow-officials-urge-putin-gtfo-030517069.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Matt Allison said:

Remember Dandy Don Meredith on Monday Night Football? "Turn out the lights, the party's over..."

https://news.yahoo.com/moscow-officials-urge-putin-gtfo-030517069.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr

I sure do.  Dandy Don was my hero, been to the memorial in Mt. Vernon.  His ode to Willie is a classic imho.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Benjamin Cole]

7 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

That's because they are a threat to democracy.

Be afraid of domestic subversives and foreign enemies. Very afraid. 

[Douglas Caddy]

Xi is leaving China to visit Putin. Putin's support inside Russia is eroding and China has big economic problems. When this happens, nations start wars to stifle internal dissent. It could be that they are conferring about attacking the U.S. and Taiwan at the same time. 

The Vatican has one of the best intelligence services in the world. The Pope's recent announcement that all Vatican sources must place their money in the Vatican Bank by Sept. 30 may mean he has inside information of coming global military and economic crises and wants consolidation of money in one place.

Xi to meet Putin in first trip outside China since COVID began (yahoo.com)

Edited September 11, 2022 by Douglas Caddy

[Matt Allison]

China can't function economically without the U.S. They will tread very carefully, because they have no other choice.