Benjamin Cole Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said: I remember going to the grocery store early that day because I wanted to watch what was going to happen and when I got home and turned on the live streams that I had been watching at the prior protests they were in the capital with and everyone was going crazy. I didn't understand what was happening but I thought at first that people were rioting because they didn't throw out the electors. So after the summer of BLM riots, I thought it was funny for a while, like Mr Buffalo Horn QAnon shaman doing a cleansing ritual on the senate chamber 😝.. until they said that they had interrupted the vote.. and when I heard that I knew the glowies had done another Charlottesville OP. I watched the whole thing live and never did I or anyone who was streaming or any of the people I called on the phone think that they were overthrowing the government. The case for that was made just to try to impeach Trump so he could never run again and they failed at that, so they did a show commission like the Warren Commission because they want to control the narrative just like JFK same MockingBird media in both cases. I had not known Mr. Buffalo Horns had performed a shaman cleansing ritual in the Capitol. That will get you four years in the slammer. A homeless gadfly from Phoenix who had turned himself in. Appeared to have mental issues. Those horns were part of a well-planned insurrection, a heinous plot overthrow the entire US government. Someone gave Mr. Buffalo Horns $500 to ride a bus to DC. A homeless gadfly, he had no money. I have given a couple bucks now and then to down-and-out drifters, homeless etc. Once or twice a $20 to a sad-case woman. But $500? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Koch Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said: I had not known Mr. Buffalo Horns had performed a shaman cleansing ritual in the Capitol. That will get you four years in the slammer. A homeless gadfly from Phoenix who had turned himself in. Appeared to have mental issues. Those horns were part of a well-planned insurrection, a heinous plot overthrow the entire US government. Someone gave Mr. Buffalo Horns $500 to ride a bus to DC. A homeless gadfly, he had no money. I have given a couple bucks now and then to down-and-out drifters, homeless etc. Once or twice a $20 to a sad-case woman. But $500? Maybe it was Sam Bankman Fried.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 Well, it's truly amusing to see two guys-- Ben Cole and Mathew Koch-- who refused to even listen to the extensive witness testimony in the Congressional January 6th hearings this year talk now about wanting to know the "full story" of January 6th. Huh? It's similar to Mathew Koch presuming to tell us about Trump's 2019 extortion phone call to Zelensky while adamantly refusing to read Alexander Vindman's definitive firsthand witness testimony about Trump's phone call. If Ben and Mathew really want the full story about Trump's January 6th coup attempt, why didn't they listen to Cassidy Hutchinson's and Pat Cippollone's firsthand witness testimony to Congress?! Instead, Ben and Mathew bought into Tucker Carlson's Faux "patriot purge" narrative about January 6th -- that Trump was set up and victimized by the Deep State. Geez... And Christopher Wray just explicitly debunked Tucker Carlson's "patriot purge" narrative in his testimony quoted in Mathew's Catholic News Service (CNS) report (above.) As I already pointed out to Ben, repeatedly, during the past year, the only bona fide FBI scandal relating to J6 is that Christopher Wray's apparent intel about the impending attack on the Capitol never resulted in appropriate security for the U.S. Congress on January 6th! Why not? The true story about January 6th is that Donald Trump, John Eastman, Rudy Giuliani, Roger Stone, and the Willard Hotel cabal organized the J6 attack on the Capitol to obstruct the certification of Biden's election, and Trump's appointees at the Pentagon blocked the deployment of the National Guard to defend Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Koch Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: Well, it's truly amusing to see two guys-- Ben Cole and Mathew Koch-- who refused to even listen to the extensive witness testimony in the Congressional January 6th hearings this year talk now about wanting to know the "full story" of January 6th. Huh? It's similar to Mathew Koch presuming to tell us about Trump's 2019 extortion phone call to Zelensky while adamantly refusing to read Alexander Vindman's definitive firsthand witness testimony about Trump's phone call. If Ben and Mathew really want the full story about Trump's January 6th coup attempt, why didn't they listen to Cassidy Hutchinson's and Pat Cippollone's firsthand witness testimony to Congress?! Instead, Ben and Mathew bought into Tucker Carlson's Faux "patriot purge" narrative about January 6th -- that Trump was set up and victimized by the Deep State. Geez... And Christopher Wray just explicitly debunked Tucker Carlson's "patriot purge" narrative in his testimony quoted in Mathew's Catholic News Service (CNS) report (above.) As I already pointed out to Ben, repeatedly, during the past year, the only bona fide FBI scandal relating to J6 is that Christopher Wray's apparent intel about the impending attack on the Capitol never resulted in appropriate security for the U.S. Congress on January 6th! Why not? The true story about January 6th is that Donald Trump, John Eastman, Rudy Giuliani, Roger Stone, and the Willard Hotel cabal organized the J6 attack on the Capitol to obstruct the certification of Biden's election, and Trump's appointees at the Pentagon blocked the deployment of the National Guard to defend Congress. William you are incorrect about the order of Ukraine CIA Whistle Blower Eric Caramello comes first and there was no high crime or misdemeanor anyways. Cassidy Hutchinson's hear say testimony was not corroborated by your wanna be Warren Commission so that's worthless. Tucker Carlson's patriot purge narrative was corroborated with 8 Proud boy informants 22 Oath Keeper informants, Head of FBI refusing to disavow Federal Agents being Dressed as Trump supporters in the Capital. The guy who filmed that woman getting shot may be one of those people. You last allegation doesn't have evidence and is just your un humble opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said: William you are incorrect about the order of Ukraine CIA Whistle Blower Eric Caramello comes first and there was no high crime or misdemeanor anyways. Cassidy Hutchinson's hear say testimony was not corroborated by your wanna be Warren Commission so that's worthless. Tucker Carlson's patriot purge narrative was corroborated with 8 Proud boy informants 22 Oath Keeper informants, Head of FBI refusing to disavow Federal Agents being Dressed as Trump supporters in the Capital. The guy who filmed that woman getting shot may be one of those people. You last allegation doesn't have evidence and is just your un humble opinion Get a clue, Mathew. You're dead wrong again, and you, frankly, have no credibility on this forum. You're posting a completely erroneous opinion about the Trump impeachment evidence presented by the primary witnesses in the Zelensky case-- Vindman, Sondland, and Fiona Hill. What's worse is that you haven't even listened to, or read, the definitive witness testimony in the case! How ridiculous is that? Your daily false narratives here mostly come from Fox News. Then, you make the same idiotic mistake in the J6 case, repeating the bogus GOP/Fox trope about Cassidy Hutchinson's firsthand witness Congressional testimony, under oath, being "hearsay." Guess what? It wasn't hearsay, as Jim Jordan claimed. Hutchinson is a highly credible, firsthand witness of events in the Trump White House in the days and weeks leading up to Trump's coup attempt. She was in the thick of it, as Chief of Staff Mark Meadows' assistant. But how could you know the facts, being a Fox News watcher? A number of Trump's sleazeballs-- including Tony Ornato and perennial l-i-a-r, Jim Jordan-- tried to discredit Hutchinson's damning testimony, but Ornato was afraid to testify to Congress under oath. He also erased his J6 texts and Emails. The Fox "patriot purge" narrative is bunk. Trump and his Willard Hotel cabal organized the J6 attack on Congress, and blocked security. Edited November 17, 2022 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 21 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: MK--- Yes, it appears Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were thoroughly infiltrated. But the 3500-officer Capital Police force was woefully unprepared and under-staffed on Jan. 6, with the commander of civil disturbance unit at home making meatloaf. She had to be called in for duty. Then the CP stood down, as seen in videos. https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC&RulesFullReport_ExaminingU.S.CapitolAttack.pdf The report above was a quickie, and governments can rarely investigate themselves (see the JFKA). Compare it to a report that says the Secret Service notably failed to perform its duties on 11/22, but stops there. The 1/6 committee has many parallels to the Warren Commission---essentially a prosecutorial body with a singular narrative to promote, in a hyper-politicized atmosphere. No defense counsel, or alternative or enlarged, narratives presented. Ponder, in both the WC and the 1/6 Committee: 1. Only the prosecution presented evidence, and that evidence was unchallenged. 2. Only the prosecution presented witnesses, hand chosen and curated for effect. Those witnesses were unchallenged. 3. The narrative, the unfolding story, was controlled by prosecutors. People and organizations become good guys or bad guys. The early media coverage of the Capitol Police presented the department as racists who would not shoot at white people and so shirked their duties, but the image became sanitized, and by the time of 1/6 committee hearing the decision was made to lionize the Capitol Police department. The media was played like an accordion. 4. The media, which is mostly compliant anyway, is left to report on the witnesses and evidence presented, on daily deadlines. 5. There is no judge to even try to make hearing formats impartial or fair. 6. Many appeals are made to emotions, or patriotism, which generally play well in the media. The WC and the 1/6 committee are essentially show trials. This is an interesting topic worthy of exploration in this forum. When there are "large" events, such as the JFKA, 9/11 or 1/6....who influences the media and to what end? Are there hidden truths? 21 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: MK--- Yes, it appears Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were thoroughly infiltrated. But the 3500-officer Capital Police force was woefully unprepared and under-staffed on Jan. 6, with the commander of civil disturbance unit at home making meatloaf. She had to be called in for duty. Then the CP stood down, as seen in videos. https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC&RulesFullReport_ExaminingU.S.CapitolAttack.pdf The report above was a quickie, and governments can rarely investigate themselves (see the JFKA). Compare it to a report that says the Secret Service notably failed to perform its duties on 11/22, but stops there. The 1/6 committee has many parallels to the Warren Commission---essentially a prosecutorial body with a singular narrative to promote, in a hyper-politicized atmosphere. No defense counsel, or alternative or enlarged, narratives presented. Ponder, in both the WC and the 1/6 Committee: 1. Only the prosecution presented evidence, and that evidence was unchallenged. 2. Only the prosecution presented witnesses, hand chosen and curated for effect. Those witnesses were unchallenged. 3. The narrative, the unfolding story, was controlled by prosecutors. People and organizations become good guys or bad guys. The early media coverage of the Capitol Police presented the department as racists who would not shoot at white people and so shirked their duties, but the image became sanitized, and by the time of 1/6 committee hearing the decision was made to lionize the Capitol Police department. The media was played like an accordion. 4. The media, which is mostly compliant anyway, is left to report on the witnesses and evidence presented, on daily deadlines. 5. There is no judge to even try to make hearing formats impartial or fair. 6. Many appeals are made to emotions, or patriotism, which generally play well in the media. The WC and the 1/6 committee are essentially show trials. This is an interesting topic worthy of exploration in this forum. When there are "large" events, such as the JFKA, 9/11 or 1/6....who influences the media and to what end? Are there hidden truths? But this doesn't tell us anything Ben. We who saw it live and know the Capitol police weren't prepared. What we as a nation, are dealing with are people who were mercilessly conned by a not very ingenious con man, as evidenced by the fact that the majority of the population saw through him. You have been essentially cheering on sheep who negated their free will to Donald Trump on 1/6, with what we know now from the 1/6 testimony, was not even Trump's delusion, but a deliberate lie. Any cross examiner like Jim Jordan, would have looked like a fool, as all the witnesses were members of the Trump administration, and in some cases would have preferred not to testify at all. Yes, what is the Capitol police to do Ben, slaughter the sheep storming the Capitol? I wouldn't want to see that. You can't see the problem there? It's funny being in a forum that's very hep to the history of Intelligence agency plots and mysteries and yet couldn't learn something from the fact that the Trump con perpetuated on these unwitting slaves is greater than anything the CIA could ever really imagine pulling off! Though it varies in degrees, it's in the 10's of millions! Certain factions could be in Dealey Plaza next week waiting for JFK at 105, or his son! Would the Republicans who actually egged this on, ever offer to pay for the deprogramming? I'm finding many levels of denial. But a beginning realization to some I see now, is one of great embarrassment and that only makes the job, of bringing them back in the fold more daunting. My experience is similar to what's going on in this thread. It's become really boring and repetitive. There really isn't fertile ground for any meaningful exchange. So trying to get from a to b to c is folly. The younger people who got in this because of social media never evolved out of a high school peer pressure sort of echo chamber, using a currency of twitter posts or youtube clips from who knows who. With the older people, like many people who were at the Capitol, it could end up in the category of the irretrievable drug devastation that happened in our generation, but unfortunately a lot of these people might not have many years left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Koch Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 26 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: Get a clue, Mathew. You're dead wrong again, and you, frankly, have no credibility on this forum. You're posting a completely erroneous opinion about the Trump impeachment evidence presented by the primary witnesses in the Zelensky case-- Vindman, Sondland, and Fiona Hill. What's worse is that you haven't even listened to, or read, the definitive witness testimony in the case! How ridiculous is that? Your daily false narratives here mostly come from Fox News. Then, you make the same idiotic mistake in the J6 case, repeating the bogus GOP/Fox trope about Cassidy Hutchinson's firsthand witness Congressional testimony, under oath, being "hearsay." Guess what? It wasn't hearsay, as Jim Jordan claimed. Hutchinson is a highly credible, firsthand witness of events in the Trump White House in the days and weeks leading up to Trump's coup attempt. She was in the thick of it, as Chief of Staff Mark Meadows assistant. A number of Trump's sleazeballs-- including Tony Ornato and perennial xxxx, Jim Jordan-- tried to discredit Hutchinson's damning testimony, but Ornato was afraid to testify to Congress under oath. He also erased his J6 texts and Emails. The Fox "patriot purge" narrative is bunk. Trump and his Willard Hotel cabal organized the J6 attack on Congress, and blocked security. I have already established that Eric Caramello is the whistleblower and was outed by Rand Paul on the Senate floor. Vindman Sondland and Fiona Hill were needed witnesses since the Whisleblower was anonymous remember. Pretty hard to take you serious when you can't even get the case right let alone understand that Trump wasn't convicted because like Russiagate is wasn't true. Are you on Shrooms right now? How could Hutchinson's testimony be anything other than hear say? She repeated what someone else told her. ANYWAYS there was no corroboration when they could have gotten it. SO, I will go with basic court proceeding where hear say doesn't mean anything and isn't admissible without corroboration. You think an American boomer would understand this from just watching Law and Order or Matlock. You MSNPC narrative is bunk just like Russiagate, just like Ukrainegate, just like Stormy Daniels, just like Covid, just like impeachment. Isn't it funny William only low information people who binge watch MSNBC think your last statment could be accurate in any way. Trump attempted to overthrow the country using My Pillow Sales man Mike Lindell. Funny how you use John Bolton to back up your stupid vindamin grasping at straws claim but when John Bolton says Trump wasn't capable of doing a coup it's crickets because you are not an honest poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Koch Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said: But this doesn't tell us anything Ben. We who saw it live and know the Capitol police weren't prepared. What we as a nation, are dealing with are people who were mercilessly conned by a not very ingenious con man, as evidenced by the fact that the majority of the population saw through him. You have been essentially cheering on sheep who negated their free will to Donald Trump on 1/6, with what we know now from the 1/6 testimony, was not even Trump's delusion, but a deliberate lie. Any cross examiner like Jim Jordan, would have looked like a fool, as all the witnesses were members of the Trump administration, and in some cases would have preferred not to testify at all. Yes, what is the Capitol police to do Ben, slaughter the sheep storming the Capitol? I wouldn't want to see that. You can't see the problem there? It's funny being in a forum that's very hep to the history of Intelligence agency plots and mysteries and yet couldn't learn something from the fact that the Trump con perpetuated on these unwitting slaves is greater than anything the CIA could ever really imagine pulling off! Though it varies in degrees, it's in the 10's of millions! Certain factions could be in Dealey Plaza next week waiting for JFK at 105, or his son! Would the Republicans who actually egged this on, ever offer to pay for the deprogramming? I'm finding many levels of denial. But a beginning realization to some I see now, is one of great embarrassment and that only makes the job, of bringing them back in the fold more daunting. My experience is similar to what's going on in this thread. It's become really boring and repetitive. There really isn't fertile ground for any meaningful exchange. So trying to get from a to b to c is folly. The younger people who got in this because of social media never evolved out of a high school peer pressure sort of echo chamber, using a currency of twitter posts or youtube clips from who knows who. With the older people, like many people who were at the Capitol, it could end up in the category of the irretrievable drug devastation that happened in our generation, but unfortunately a lot of these people might not have many years left. Your theory that Trump got his supporters to disrupt the session where they were trying to throw out the F curve electors so they couldn't is really stupid IMHO. Edited November 17, 2022 by Matthew Koch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: I had not known Mr. Buffalo Horns had performed a shaman cleansing ritual in the Capitol. As an FYI, Ben, none of that was on tv here that day. What you quoted there is just more bs from the usual source of bs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 The waddler. Elderly Donald Trump waddled out to launch his comeback - but the people are saying no (msn.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 The obvious problem here is that Mathew Koch and Benjamin Cole didn't listen to the extensive sworn testimony in the Congressional J6 committee hearings this year or, in Mathew's case, to the sworn testimony in Trump's first impeachment hearings. Instead, they only listened to the false, alternate narratives being pushed by Trump and the Trumplicon media to cover up Trump's misconduct. Mathew doesn't even seem to know that the GOP-controlled Senate refused to even review the damning evidence against Trump in the Zelensky extortion case! Kirk is correct about the worthless redundancy of these debates, but aren't they also a microcosm of the disinformation/ignorance problem in the U.S. today-- where a high percentage of Republicans remain clueless about Trump's crimes? As Carl Bernstein said, "If Fox News had existed in the 1970s, Nixon might have survived Watergate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 14 hours ago, Steve Thomas said: Last night we heard the death knell of Donald Trumps political future. I say that because about a half an hour into Trumps speech, I noticed that a number of people were getting up and walking out, and I thought to myself, "Oh my God, if even his own supporters..." Trump noticed it too. He stopped his speech and said, "Please" and paused. I thought, "He's going to pull a Jeb Bush and beg people to please applaud." He asked the audience to sit down and said he felt guilty about asking them to stand for so long, but the exodus for the exits stopped. I thought, "That's it. That's the end." Steve Thomas Just having to stop his speech and say please is enough sign alone I think of the end. Security preventing many from leaving as mentioned in another post is a sign of desperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Koch Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Matt Allison said: As an FYI, Ben, none of that was on tv here that day. What you quoted there is just more bs from the usual source of bs It was on Youtube live streams, here's some more Fascists you support Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Koch Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Matt Allison said: As an FYI, Ben, none of that was on tv here that day. What you quoted there is just more bs from the usual source of bs Matt: The thought is amusing, whether or Mr. Buffalo Horns actually performed a shamanistic ritual. Although, also sad. I suspect Jacob Chansley is not in his right mind, and evidently did not battle anyone. He was unaffiliated with anyone, and posed no threat to government. In many ways, Chansley was a typical participant in the 1/6 scrum, although on the colorful side. There was another guy dressed as a bear and third guy, rather chubby with a mustache, in medieval suit of armor. He looked a lot like the "Harvey Mudd" character on the the original Star Trek TV show. An interesting assortment of people. And then Ray Epps, the solid citizen from Arizona, stable loving married man, productive, not racist in any way, who loves his dogs, and only went to DC to listen to Trump speak. I read that in the NYT. I sure get the sense we are being snowed on 1/6...but hey, just IMHO. Edited November 17, 2022 by Benjamin Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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