What could Lee Bower see from his tower?

[Mark Tyler]

11 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Mark, where is this picture from/do you know who took it?  It's obviously a bit after the assassination, while a few people are gathered at the top of the steps and a couple by the fence no one is still running up the knoll.  Seeing the people gathered out in the street, including kids, is what caught my eye.  It seems traffic is still restricted.  

This is one of the many Allen photos which have been collected here:

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/thumbnails.php?album=37

Helpfully there are several contact sheets which give the sequence in which they were taken (although no time span of course).  The time of day could possibly be judged by the shadows?  The kids looking at something on the road is interesting, as is the policeman behind the fence.

He also caught some other useful photos.  Here is the so called Babushka lady holding what looks like a box camera:

This camera seems to emit a flash in the Zapruder film:

Allen was also responsible for the tramp photos.

11 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Regarding the thread topic, at the top of the picture that space between the end of the fence and the top of the stairs where the people are standing represents the only window of opportunity for Bowers to see the Limo at the time shots were being fired.  As alluded to previously I've been there and stood immediately below where he worked.  Even with the increased vegetation of a few years ago as opposed to 1963 he would have had only a brief 2-3 second view.  

Thanks for the tip.  It does indeed look like a very narrow view down the channel between the pergola shelter and the picket fence so if that was his only view this nails down the timing of his sighting to a very brief moment.  You can't beat on the ground evidence, cheers!

11 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

He did have a clear view of the parking lot with the three questionable vehicles just cruising through, two with out of state plates (?), one talking on a microphone, and Goldwater bumper sticker.  It was a reserved/paid parking lot, not open to the public. 

A clear enough view to notice a man in a white shirt and a man in a plaid shirt hanging around behind the fence on the grassy knoll before the assassination.

A clear enough view to notice a flash or commotion behind the fence.  Maybe the sound of a shot attracted his attention.  He turned and saw the flash of another.  

A commotion of throwing guns in a trunk and running?

The flash and commotion may have been the bottle smashing incident immediately after the shots that Marilyn Sitzman reported to Josiah Thompson in 1966:

http://the-puzzle-palace.com/files/sitzman.htm

"And they were eating their lunch, 'cause they had little lunch sacks, and they were drinking coke. The main reason I remember 'em is, after the last shot I recall hearing and the car went down under the triple underpass there, I heard a crash of glass, and I looked over there, and the kids had thrown down their coke bottles, just threw them down and just started running towards the back and I ... Of course, I don't see anything unusual in that because everybody else was running that way, 'cause when I look over on my left side, the people on the hill were all running back the same way too."

The smashing happened as the couple ran to the rear so if they ran behind the shelter Bowers must have seen them which may explain his comments?

11 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Cigarette butts and footprints in the mud make me wonder, and speculate, among other things.

I think the reports of butts and footprints make it certain that one (or maybe more) people were loitering in that area that morning.  Connecting that to the assassination is harder as they may just have been innocent spectators waiting for the parade.

[Joe Bauer]

Well one thing is for sure, that Babushka Lady in the picture above is NOT Beverly Oliver.

 

[John Butler]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

Well one thing is for sure, that Babushka Lady in the picture above is NOT Beverly Oliver.

 

And, she's not the Babushka Lady either.  The BB Lady is not in the Zapruder film.  You can't turn a blue dress or coat into a tan coat.  Nor can you turn blond hair into a patterned scarf of babushka.

Be nice to see her film.  NOT!!! ain't gong to happen!

The Marie Muchmore film has sequences where you can see Zapruder's Lady in Blue morph into the Babushka Lady.

I think the Lady in Blue, also seen in other media, was Tammi True.  There's no good evidence for this except:

Folks have been saying lately photos and films are not good evidentiary material,  But, my opinion is that you really can't understand what happened in Dealey Plaza without studying the films and photos.

[Joe Bauer]

John, you are right.

The blue coat woman appears to be wider bodied and thicker legged that the tan coat woman above. And the shade of the blue coat is deep enough that depicted in black and white, would not appear as light toned as the one in the black and white photo above.

Beverly Oliver was a big boned blond girl. The tan coat woman above is not even close to Oliver's girth and definitely not blond from the hair exposed in front of her scarf.

And just for heavy sadness relieving fun, wouldn't it have been a fortuitous and possibly shooter distraction event if the long overcoat wearing woman standing in the famously depicted grassy area was actually Tammi True and just as JFK's limo was approaching and going by,  threw open her coat to reveal herself in all her skimpy outfit Carousel Club stage performing splendor?

Might have shocked driver Bill Greer into slamming on the brakes to a complete stop and/or caused JFK to turn his upper body leftward enough to make for a much harder to hit target.

Sorry, but sometimes all this super heavy tragedy discussion needs a lighter break now-and-then imo.

 

 

[John Butler]

6 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

And just for heavy sadness relieving fun, wouldn't it have been a fortuitous and possibly shooter distraction event if the long overcoat wearing woman standing in the famously depicted grassy area was actually Tammi True and just as JFK's limo was approaching and going by,  threw open her coat to reveal herself in all her skimpy outfit Carousel Club stage performing splendor?

Thanks Joe,

Now that is something one would more than likely not forget.

[Joe Bauer]

15 hours ago, John Butler said:

Thanks Joe,

Now that is something one would more than likely not forget.

If this actually happened and Zapruder captured this, would the Zapruder film by law have to be re-classified as "R" or even "X" rated?

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Richard Price]

It was already rated "X" and not allowed to be shown on TV because of graphic violence.  That was at least the excuse, by some, for not showing it.  The American public couldn't take the visual impact of seeing what happened.  Worked well for many years to keep any kind of mass alarm and calls for an investigation at bay.  You can well imagine what would have happened if every eye were glued to the film of the assassination like the funeral.  The flaws (even with the altered film) would have been so apparent, there would have been an immediate outcry for an public investigation.  I think Congress would have stepped up and done what wasn't done until much later and maybe the truth or at least a better truth would have come out instead of the drip by drip erosion of trust we have suffered since then.

[Richard Price]

On 7/26/2020 at 9:50 AM, John Butler said:

Thanks Richard,

Yes.  But, there are no bushes in front of the various men on the steps.  The bushes or actually trees are along the wall of the Pergola or along the wooden fence.  They are not down by the steps. 

John, the tree with bushes around the base is the foliage between the camera and the three men on the steps.  As Zapruder panned down the street and to the west as the limousine exited Dealey Plaza the tree obscured part of the scene.  If you look at the post by Ron Bulman which has the view of the crowd gathered by the sidewalk with the man crossing the road (above), you can see the pruned tree directly behind the men/woman on the top area of the grassy knoll near the concrete abutment.  This is the only tree/bush between the camera and the men on the steps that is tall enough to interfere.  As you can see in the pictures, Zapruder was on the pedestal above the tree level, but the street goes downward to the triple underpass and zapruder had to aim his camera lower to follow the limousine.

[Mark Stevens]

Since this thread started I've been looking for a video I saw with footage from the tower.

I haven't found that footage, but I did find the below video. I'll keep hunting for the video I saw.

There are two sections with footage from the tower in this video. (one of those views is the video image)

There also a few things I've never heard regarding Bowers, one of which was that he disappeared for a few days and when he returned he was missing a finger...

Seems of interest. Anyone familiar with this?

Edited July 27, 2020 by Mark Stevens

[John Butler]

3 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

If this actually happened and Zapruder captured this, would the Zapruder film by law have to be re-classified as "R" or even "X" rated?

 

I would think it would be one then the other depending on what part of her act you caught.

[John Butler]

3 hours ago, Richard Price said:

John, the tree with bushes around the base is the foliage between the camera and the three men on the steps.  As Zapruder panned down the street and to the west as the limousine exited Dealey Plaza the tree obscured part of the scene.  If you look at the post by Ron Bulman which has the view of the crowd gathered by the sidewalk with the man crossing the road (above), you can see the pruned tree directly behind the men/woman on the top area of the grassy knoll near the concrete abutment.  This is the only tree/bush between the camera and the men on the steps that is tall enough to interfere.  As you can see in the pictures, Zapruder was on the pedestal above the tree level, but the street goes downward to the triple underpass and zapruder had to aim his camera lower to follow the limousine.

Richard,

I don't believe what you are saying works.  Besides this is not about what Zapruder saw, but what Lee Bowers saw.  Here's another photo which is from Wilma Bond, no. 4 I believe:

There are no bushes between the steps and Zapruder.  The two or three men (Emmet Hudson says one other there with him) should be seen in the Zapruder film.  Emmet and his buddy are still there is this photo.  He's still sitting on the steps in the shade watching events.  Other media have them standing and further down the steps.  There are no bushes in front or behind them that Zapruder could have filmed.  Instead he should have filmed them.

Edited July 27, 2020 by John Butler

[Richard Price]

John, your red line (in the above photo) goes right through the top of the ornamental tree to the steps.  The tree is easily seen if you look for the sunlit white trunk coming up just to the photo left of the inside corner of the concrete structure and in the center of the triangular hedges.

[Chris Davidson]

38 minutes ago, Richard Price said:

John, your red line (in the above photo) goes right through the top of the ornamental tree to the steps. 

Richard,

You are correct.

The frame on the right I shot (one of many filming passes) while on the pedestal using a B/H 414 on normal lens setting.

The bush density/height would vary throughout the years.

 

 

[Richard Price]

Thank you Chris.  This is something I went through years ago when I thought I would be able to go through the photographic records and find something everyone else had missed.  Having limited resources and never having been to Dallas, must less Dealey Plaza, I started studying the photos showing the head in the bushes when it was being speculated that he was way down the street and hidden (a shooter).  I kept looking for these bushes everywhere in order to justify a shooter in the bushes, then realized it was a perspective problem due to the location of the camera.  One of many times I went down a rabbit hole only to be corrected by those of you who have done such extraordinary work.  I am extremely glad there are those of you out there with the expertise, access and resources to bring to light so many of the actual facts and expose the contradictions and falsehoods being pushed by so many others.

[John Butler]

14 hours ago, Richard Price said:

Thank you Chris.  This is something I went through years ago when I thought I would be able to go through the photographic records and find something everyone else had missed.  Having limited resources and never having been to Dallas, must less Dealey Plaza, I started studying the photos showing the head in the bushes when it was being speculated that he was way down the street and hidden (a shooter).  I kept looking for these bushes everywhere in order to justify a shooter in the bushes, then realized it was a perspective problem due to the location of the camera.  One of many times I went down a rabbit hole only to be corrected by those of you who have done such extraordinary work.  I am extremely glad there are those of you out there with the expertise, access and resources to bring to light so many of the actual facts and expose the contradictions and falsehoods being pushed by so many others.

Once that idea soaks in then consider:

A good question.  Why isn't that tree in front of everything Zapruder filmed?  This is my last on what Zapruder saw or filmed.

The important point you two are trying to bury is that Lee Bowers didn't see the p. limo during the assassination.  He heard the shots while the vehicle was turning on to Elm and was hidden by the TSBD.

Edited July 28, 2020 by John Butler