Generals / Military High Brass at the JFK autopsy

[Guest]

Morning guys, 

I saw a quip on a thread the other day suggesting Curtis Le May was at the Bethesda autopsy, is this just conjecture? Do we know which members of military high brass were in attendance directing or observing the proceedings? If so, what is the source material?

Thanks

Chris

[Chuck Schwartz]

See page 313 of Tim Fleming's "JFK and the End of America". Paul O'Connor who was at the Bethesda "autopsy" stated there was an Air Force General smoking cigars and Humes complained about the cigar smoke.  Another person at the "autopsy" named Custer said something similar. But, the official list published by the FBI did not have LeMay on it, per DSL. I feel J Edger Hoover was a key person in the cover up of the Big Event and that is why LeMay was not on that list.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

See page 313 of Tim Fleming's "JFK and the End of America". Paul O'Connor who was at the Bethesda "autopsy" stated there was an Air Force General smoking cigars and Humes complained about the cigar smoke.  Another person at the "autopsy" named Custer said something similar. But, the official list published by the FBI did not have LeMay on it, per DSL. I feel J Edger Hoover was a key person in the cover up of the Big Event and that is why LeMay was not on that list.

Thanks Chuck, appreciate it. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

See page 313 of Tim Fleming's "JFK and the End of America". Paul O'Connor who was at the Bethesda "autopsy" stated there was an Air Force General smoking cigars and Humes complained about the cigar smoke.  Another person at the "autopsy" named Custer said something similar. But, the official list published by the FBI did not have LeMay on it, per DSL. I feel J Edger Hoover was a key person in the cover up of the Big Event and that is why LeMay was not on that list.

Makes you wonder if the authors/researchers checked Dulles calendar for any unusual meets with general Le May or others. 

[Joe Bauer]

If LeMay was at the autopsy you have to wonder why?

Was he asked or ordered to be there by the President which would have been his only superior at that time?

If you ask me I'd say it was simple and sick morbid curiosity.

A man he hated lying cold white dead and naked on a cold steel table being sliced open and studied ... the average person ( even a bereaved relative ) would never "choose" to watch something so gruesome unless ordered to do so or required by position or law to do so ... in my opinion.

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Paul Brancato]

The strange thing about LeMay’s possible presence at the autopsy was something revealed a few years ago when a more complete copy or Air Force 1 tapes surfaced. It turns out that LeMay’s adjutant was desperately trying to get in touch with LeMay during that flight, according to radio traffic picked up by Air Force 1 but removed from an earlier less complete version of the Tape. When I dug in a bit I discovered that a LeMay was on vacation (fishing I think) at the time. If my memory serves, LeMay got on a plane and hightailed it to DC, landing at the airport closer to the autopsy location, which as you may know was changed while Air Force 1 was aloft. So timing wise it was entirely possible for LeMay to have gotten there, and I think he did, based on the previous comments here about cigar smoke. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

If LeMay was at the autopsy you have to wonder why?

Was he asked or ordered to be there by the President which would have been his only superior at that time?

If you ask me I'd say it was simple and sick morbid curiosity.

A man he hated lying cold white dead and naked on a cold steel table being sliced open and studied ... the average person ( even a bereaved relative ) would never "choose" to watch something so gruesome unless ordered to do so or required by position or law to do so ... in my opinion.

 

It's incredible morbid but, if we take LeMay's comments about the bombs being dropped on Japan, he is a sadist.

If we revisit this coffin swap that debate rages about on forum threads. who would have been in charge of that? The Air Force? Likewise once landing, moving the shipping casket coffin to the Bethesda hospital? 
Bethesda is a naval hospital right? Does that mean a Naval admiral or similar would have directed things on the ground? 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

The strange thing about LeMay’s possible presence at the autopsy was something revealed a few years ago when a more complete copy or Air Force 1 tapes surfaced. It turns out that LeMay’s adjutant was desperately trying to get in touch with LeMay during that flight, according to radio traffic picked up by Air Force 1 but removed from an earlier less complete version of the Tape. When I dug in a bit I discovered that a LeMay was on vacation (fishing I think) at the time. If my memory serves, LeMay got on a plane and hightailed it to DC, landing at the airport closer to the autopsy location, which as you may know was changed while Air Force 1 was aloft. So timing wise it was entirely possible for LeMay to have gotten there, and I think he did, based on the previous comments here about cigar smoke. 

It opens some questions. If he was in on the plot, presumably he would have been closer by? Was fishing a cover? Or did the plan go awry and he was suddenly needed? Does this tie in with the would altering stuff, that may not have been in the original plan and suddenly sign-off on some extra duties involving aircraft were needed? 
On the smoking thing, I think in that era they all liked a brandy and a cigar, I guess its possible another high-brass could have been smoking. It suits his absolutely mannerless crass behaviour to me smoking in a medical room and at a fallen presidents autopsy. 

[Joe Bauer]

Why is Bethesda Navy Corpsman Paul O'Conner so often dismissed, ignored and even disparaged as an important and truthful "JFK at Bethesda" eye witness?

The man and his position and his precense right there at the autopsy table is proven beyond any doubt.

Yet time and time again, it seems he and his hands on, eye witness and even "sworn oath" testimony and claims are dismissed or ignored or disputed by even hard core reputable JFK conspiracy believing researchers.

O'Conner was "inches" away from JFK's head and body for "hours!"  That's a fact.

O'Conner was in the autopsy room set up for observers for hours.

His recounting of who was there, the military, others in civilian suits, the hightened energy, the interruptions by JFK physician Burkley, what he saw regards JFK's skull with practically no brain left in it from his inches away and right in front of JFK's body vantage point ... all discounted.

WHY?   

Nothing in the man's life and history suggest a lying or attention and money seeking nut case.

The man was even a close friend of "Dennis David" for years in his later life.

And JFK connected military veteran Dennis David also turned out to be an honest testimony sharing, true blue person as well.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Why is Bethesda Navy Corpsman Paul O'Conner always widely dismissed as a witness?

The man and his position and his precense right there at the autopsy table is proven beyond any doubt.

Yet time and time again, it seems he and his hands on, eye witness and even "sworn oath" testimony and claims are dismissed or ignored or disputed by even hard core reputable JFK conspiracy believing researchers.

O'Conner was "inches" away from JFK's body for "hours!"  That's a fact.

O'Conner was in the autopsy theater type room for hours. His recounting of who was there, the military, others in civilian suits, the hightened energy, the interruptions by JFK physician Burkley, what he saw regards JFK's skull which was inches away and right in front of him ... all discounted.

WHY?   

Nothing in the man's life and history suggest a lying or attention and money seeking nut case.

The man was a even close card playing friend of "Dennis David" for years in his later life.

And military veteran Dennis David also turned out to be a true blue person as well.

 

 

I think it's only because we seem to be fighting the rearguard action and are always looking for multiple sources, it would certainly be good enough for the other side with the full force of the media behind them. 

[Joe Bauer]

43 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

It's incredible morbid but, if we take LeMay's comments about the bombs being dropped on Japan, he is a sadist.

If we revisit this coffin swap that debate rages about on forum threads. who would have been in charge of that? The Air Force? Likewise once landing, moving the shipping casket coffin to the Bethesda hospital? 
Bethesda is a naval hospital right? Does that mean a Naval admiral or similar would have directed things on the ground? 

To some degree of logic I could see the reasoning behind placing JFK's body in another coffin ( obviously not a huge ornate one ) to then drive to Bethesda seperately and covertly if there was any concern about the huge crush of media following the ambulance carrying Jackie and supposedly JFK in the heavy ornate coffin. Perhaps worrying that this circus of press might impede the delivery in some embarrassing way?

Also, perhaps JFK's body was in the ornate coffin and upon arrival to Bethesda immediately taken out and placed in a plain one for delivery to the autopsy area and a waiting Dr. Humes? Maybe Dr. Humes wasn't even at Bethesda the minute JFK's ornate coffin arrived and in the gap of time until his prep to be there to receive JFK's body, JFK was removed from the ornate coffin and placed in a much lighter and easier to move plain coffin?

Was Humes ever asked what type of coffin he says "he" helped lift JFK's body out of when it arrived at his work area?

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

To some degree of logic I could see the reasoning behind placing JFK's body in another coffin ( obviously not a huge ornate one ) to then drive to Bethesda seperately and covertly if there was any concern about the huge crush of media following the ambulance carrying Jackie and supposedly JFK in the heavy ornate coffin. Perhaps worrying that this circus of press might impede the delivery in some embarrassing way?

Also, perhaps JFK's body was in the ornate coffin and upon arrival to Bethesda immediately taken out and placed in a plain one for delivery to the autopsy area and a waiting Dr. Humes? Maybe Dr. Humes wasn't even at Bethesda the minute JFK's ornate coffin arrived and in the gap of time until his prep to be there to receive JFK's body, JFK was removed from the ornate coffin and placed in a much lighter and easier to move plain coffin?

Was Humes ever asked what type of coffin he says "he" helped lift JFK's body out of when it arrived at his work area?

 

I think it may have been easy to explain in a report, ie we moved the body into a standard military coffin for lightness and so the expensive coffin wasn't damaged etc. It also may have given so anonymity to the corpse when ordinary personnel were floating about (maybe). I can see them saying to Humes or others, "we need you to say this, or the media will ask 1000 questions". 
Personally, I do buy into the body being worked on, that's why there was a swap. Who was the top chap who worked on cadavers at that time for open casket funerals? I seem to remember something about him disappearing on the day and his family spilling the beans. Or something along those lines. I think we do need to critically think on it all but, most are unanimous he is shot from the front (including me), which means a front wound in the head and the autopsy says no. 

[Michael Crane]

Taken from a website.

http://22november1963.org.uk/sibert-and-oneill-report

The following individuals attended the autopsy:

• Adm. C.B. HOLLOWAY, U.S. Navy, Commanding Officer of the U.S. Naval Medical Center, Bethesda;
• Adm. BERKLEY, U.S. Navy, the President’s personal physician;
• Commander JAMES J. HUMES, Chief Pathologist, Bethesda Naval Hospital, who conducted autopsy;
• Capt. JAMES H. STONER, JR., Commanding Officer, U.S. Naval Medical School, Bethesda;
• Mr. JOHN T. STRINGER, JR., Medical photographer;
• JAMES H. EBERSOLE;
• LLOYD E. RAINES;
• J.T. BOZWELL;
• J.G. RUDNICKI;
• PAUL K. O’CONNOR;
• J.C. JENKINS;
• JERROL R. CRESTER;
• EDWARD F. REED;
• JAMES METZLER.

During the course of the autopsy, Lt. Col. P. FINCK, U.S. Army Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, arrived to assist Commander HUMES in the autopsy. In addition, Lt. Cmdr. GREGG CROSS and Captain DAVID OSBORNE, Chief of Surgery, entered the autopsy room.

Major General WEHLE, Commanding Officer of U.S. Military District, Washington, D.C., entered the autopsy room to ascertain from the Secret Service arrangements concerning the transportation of the President’s body back to the White House. AMC CHESTER H. BOWERS, U.S. Navy, visited the autopsy room during the final stages of such to type receipts given by FBI and Secret Service for items obtained.

At the termination of the autopsy, the following personnel from Gawler’s Funeral Home entered the autopsy room to prepare the President’s body for burial:

• JOHN VAN HAESEN
• EDWIN STROBLE
• THOMAS ROBINSON
• Mr. HAGEN

Brigadier General GODFREY McHUGH, Air Force Military Aide to the President, was also present, as was Dr. GEORGE BAKEMAN, U.S. Navy.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Michael Crane

[Michael Crane]

Looks like they spelled Jerrol R Custer name wrong ^^^

[Allen Lowe]

the reason, I believe, that LeMay was there is that the military was a central part of the plot (this btw is something that John Newman is working on, if I understand correctly). Note, as well, that when John Kenneth Galbraith went in to discuss his resignation (over Vietnam) with Lyndon Johnson, LBJ clearly indicated that he believed that the generals, and in particular LeMay, had executed JFK BECAUSE of Vietnam (this according to Galbraith's son James).