The Simple Explanation of Why There Were at Least Two Guns in Dealey Plaza

[Tony Krome]

Connally from his Parkland bed;

If anyone in the front seat of a car wishes to view the rear seat area, they always turn towards the centre of the car. Connally did exactly that.

[Benjamin Cole]

20 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Thanks for your kind comments. Yes, of course, the bullet is a plant,

but measuring the fragments in his body and adding that weight

to what was recovered from him at Parkland would help show

that 399 is false evidence and further discredit the SBT.

Good point.  How anyone thought they could get away with the magic bullet plant is baffling. Even lone-nutters wonder why the magic bullet is not deformed. A Straussian reading of some parts of the WC report indicate the magic bullet and the LHO palm print lifted from the Mannlicher Carcano were not even believed by WC'ers. 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Connally from his Parkland bed;

If anyone in the front seat of a car wishes to view the rear seat area, they always turn towards the centre of the car. Connally did exactly that.

Tony K---

Thanks for reading.

On his hospital bed, and doped up a bit, Connally may have said he turned inward in the cab to his own left. Or maybe he was mis-interpreted by a reporter. 

The Z film clearly shows Connally turned to his own right to view JFK. I don't think this contestable, or a judgement call. 

There are many copies of the Z film on Youtube. This is one: 

 

 

[Tony Krome]

Connally said that on the 27th, 5 days later. There is a video, he is alert and lucid.

 

[Ron Bulman]

2 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Tony K---

Thanks for reading.

On his hospital bed, and doped up a bit, Connally may have said he turned inward in the cab to his own left. Or maybe he was mis-interpreted by a reporter. 

The Z film clearly shows Connally turned to his own right to view JFK. I don't think this contestable, or a judgement call. 

There are many copies of the Z film on Youtube. This is one: 

 

 

This video is age restricted?  Two clicks to watch the Z film?  This is ridiculous.  Connally turned right at the sound of a shot to look back  at the President but couldn't see him.  He then started to turn to his left to look back but was hit in his right arm pit in mid turn.  The bullet  traversed a rib and came out his nipple.  This is all well documented if one looks for facts.  Dig for yourself.  I'm not making it up.

[Benjamin Cole]

7 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

The official story is that Reagan didn't know he was shot until he was inside the car. The first pain he felt was when the Secret Service agent fell on him ("I think you broke my rib!")

 

Ron Ecker:

That Reagan was one tough old bird. 

"The president was shot in the left lung, and the .22 caliber bullet just missed his heart. In an impressive feat for a 70-year-old man with a collapsed lung, he walked into George Washington University Hospital under his own power."

Reagan was struck by a partially spent .22 slug, that had been flattened after striking bullet proof glass first.  No bones were broken, or even struck. Looks like the flat bullet slipped neatly between the ribs. 

Connally took a direct hit from what was likely a large slug, from a high-powered rifle.

One surprising anecdote: The President was given blood and platelet transfusions, but then developed fever. The worry was that the blood products were infected with hepatitis. The bags in which the blood products had been were sent to the CDC and dubbed "suspicious," meaning the blood products might have been infected with hepatitis. 

https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/pdf/10.1148/radiographics.15.2.7761644

[Benjamin Cole]

4 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

This video is age restricted?  Two clicks to watch the Z film?  This is ridiculous.  Connally turned right at the sound of a shot to look back  at the President but couldn't see him.  He then started to turn to his left to look back but was hit in his right arm pit in mid turn.  The bullet  traversed a rib and came out his nipple.  This is all well documented if one looks for facts.  Dig for yourself.  I'm not making it up.

I agree.

The important point is that Connally was not struck by the same bullet that struck JFK. 

Ergo, a single-shot bolt action rifle was not the only weapon firing at the limo that day. 

 

 

[Micah Mileto]

Connally's testimony is most significant when viewed under the lens of there being no loud report before the z180's

[Andrej Stancak]

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

You are indicating that Connally, the silver-haired man, has already been shot through the chest, completely demolishing a rib? But after being shot, Connally has turned around in his chair to check on JFK? 

Yes, the rotation of Connally's body to his right is a part of the process of falling down toward his wife after being shot. The frame 276 does not show what Connally had described as trying to view Kennedy by turning to his right. Connally told he has not been able to see Kennedy after turning to his right; he would be able to see him in frame 276 though. At least, this is what I read in Z-film.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Yes, the rotation of Connally's body to his right is a part of the process of falling down toward his wife after being shot. The frame 276 does not show what Connally had described as trying to view Kennedy by turning to his right. Connally told he has not been able to see Kennedy after turning to his right; he would be able to see him in frame 276 though. At least, this is what I read in Z-film.

 

Andrej S--I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one. Interesting discussion. But you have concluded that Connally was struck by a separate bullet? If so, what is your take o the timing between shots? 

[David Andrews]

14 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

David A.--

Thanks for reading.

I am not sure I follow your last paragraph. No one disputes JBC was shot in the back. 

Connally may have been hit by yet another shot, that hit his wrist, according to his surgeon. 

 

 

I'm saying that, in Zapruder, Connally is not "facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving," when hit in the torso, as Connally claims in the WR.  His back is exposed to the south side of Dealey, not the east side - from where Oswald putatively fired.  Also, since he appears to be still swiveled in his seat when hit, and facing north in a westbound vehicle, then there's some question of whether his legs and right hand are in line with the torso and thus with the torso wound, permitting one bullet to cause all his wounds.  In that jumpseat, did he have room to swivel his legs along with his torso, keeping them in the line of fire from the south?

Despite rejecting the SBT, his statement about facing more or less straight ahead at the time he was hit supports the shot-from-the-TSBD scenario, and doesn't jibe with his posture in Zapruder.

So, I'm just recommending that you don't commit to any language that implies or supports that one bullet caused all JBC wounds, since we can't tell that for certain from Connally's statements, from the Zapruder film. or from assumptions about where his arms or legs are positioned within the limo body when hit in the torso.  You can make your point about two guns by leaving the wrist and thigh wounds out entirely, unless we can be sure Connally's posture allows one-bullet wounding when shot from the south while his face and body are facing north, and his arms and legs are in indeterminate positions.

Whether JBC's torso, wrist and leg are in position to be wounded with a single shot needs further investigation.  Results might even further prove that there's more than one rifle firing.

Edited June 10, 2021 by David Andrews

[Andrej Stancak]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Andrej S--I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one. Interesting discussion. But you have concluded that Connally was struck by a separate bullet? If so, what is your take o the timing between shots? 

Ben:

I will prepare some images related to Connaly's injury behaviour later on (too much marking at the moment...). I think Connally was hit twice. Once around the time when Kennedy was shot (manifested in Kennedy lifting his hand toward his neck) and than again, into his wrist, around frame 328. This latter event is described in the latest Josiah Thompson's book Last Second in Dallas.

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

10 hours ago, David Andrews said:

I'm saying that, in Zapruder, Connally is not "facing more or less straight ahead, the way the car was moving," when hit in the torso, as Connally claims in the WR.  His back is exposed to the south side of Dealey, not the east side - from where Oswald putatively fired.  Also, since he appears to be still swiveled in his seat when hit, and facing north in a westbound vehicle, then there's some question of whether his legs and right hand are in line with the torso and thus with the torso wound, permitting one bullet to cause all his wounds.  In that jumpseat, did he have room to swivel his legs along with his torso, keeping them in the line of fire from the south?

Despite rejecting the SBT, his statement about facing more or less straight ahead at the time he was hit supports the shot-from-the-TSBD scenario, and doesn't jibe with his posture in Zapruder.

So, I'm just recommending that you don't commit to any language that implies or supports that one bullet caused all JBC wounds, since we can't tell that for certain from Connally's statements, from the Zapruder film. or from assumptions about where his arms or legs are positioned within the limo body when hit in the torso.  You can make your point about two guns by leaving the wrist and thigh wounds out entirely, unless we can be sure Connally's posture allows one-bullet wounding when shot from the south while his face and body are facing north, and his arms and legs are in indeterminate positions.

Whether JBC's torso, wrist and leg are in position to be wounded with a single shot needs further investigation.  Results might even further prove that there's more than one rifle firing.

David A-

Thanks.

Yes, and Connally's doctor at Parkland also thought two missiles, or more, could have struck Connally. Connally himself said bullets were entering the cab as if by automatic gunfire. 

Your points are well-made and well-taken. 

[Ron Bulman]

Benjamin, the simplest explanation to me for those unsure of two guns in Dealey Plaza is Boom, Boom-Boom.  That sequence of shots described by multiple witnesses.  The Boom-Boom part being too close together for one gun.  I know lone nutters and others dismiss witnesses statements as being mistaken but they were there, we were not.  jmho

[Benjamin Cole]

19 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Benjamin, the simplest explanation to me for those unsure of two guns in Dealey Plaza is Boom, Boom-Boom.  That sequence of shots described by multiple witnesses.  The Boom-Boom part being too close together for one gun.  I know lone nutters and others dismiss witnesses statements as being mistaken but they were there, we were not.  jmho

Ron B. 

I agree, but with several caveats. 

Some people might have heard echoes, or might have faulty memories. 

Other confusing factors are the possible use of a gun with a silencer, or a pneumatic gun. Or simultaneous shots. 

Then there is the factor that sound travels at 1,125 fps.  I might honestly hear one gunshot, when in fact two guns were fired, but one gun at 612 feet from me, and another 306 feet from me, but the latter weapon fired a quarter of a second later. 

So people in Dealey Plaza heard three shots, but there could have been more than three shots fired. 

For me, a telling clue is the large number of people, with military and police backgrounds, reporting gunsmoke in Dealey Plaza in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. Then the guy with bogus Secret Service credentials near the Grassy Knoll. 

I think even Dr. Watson would get suspicious....

But the important factor, as you point out, is LHO or someone in TSBD was purportedly armed with a single-shot bolt-action rifle, and did all the shooting. That dog don't hunt....