The Framing of Lee Harvey Oswald --- Part III

[Greg Doudna]

11 hours ago, John Butler said:

  But, Robert's real problem with veracity is he changed his mistake from Feb. 1958 to Sep. 1959.  

Maybe you have cited this earlier but could you say where Robert Oswald dated that photograph to Sept 1959? That makes little sense, so just would like to know the documentation on that.

Very gracious of you to acknowledge not having a problem with Tracy Parnell's dating of the photograph to Feb 1957 as reasonable and possible, thereby removing that photo as citable as a positive argument for two Oswalds. Glad to get that cleared up and out of the way!

[John Butler]

On 12/24/2021 at 10:01 AM, Greg Doudna said:

Maybe you have cited this earlier but could you say where Robert Oswald dated that photograph to Sept 1959? That makes little sense, so just would like to know the documentation on that.

Very gracious of you to acknowledge not having a problem with Tracy Parnell's dating of the photograph to Feb 1957 as reasonable and possible, thereby removing that photo as citable as a positive argument for two Oswalds. Glad to get that cleared up and out of the way!

Greg,

Robert wrote a book in 1967.  The exact title escapes me at the moment.  The pic is in the book.

I generally pay attention to Tracy Parnell.  I believe he is an honest researcher.  I don't agree with many of his ideas.  I made a timeline of Harvey and Lee in the military.  His work was helpful in in verifying the timeline in places.  

I'm sorry to disappoint, but what I said was it was possible for Lee Oswald to be there.  I also said it is possible for Harvey to be there.  This is not based upon my ideas, but David Joseph's timeline of Harvey and Lee and research that I have done. 

My best assumption is that Robert did mean Lee Oswald was there in Feb. 1958 (don't take this out of context).  But, in reality which Oswald was really there?  When it was pointed out that Lee Oswald was in Japan at that time and place, he had to change the date.  He chose Sep. 1959.  Sep. is definitely a wrong date for the photo.  The temperature difference between Feb. and Sep. is extreme in the sense of cold weather to warm weather.

Mama Oswald, Robert Oswald, Marina, and possibly John Pic were all involved in this intelligence scheme.  Oswald's family were patriots.  They thought they were doing the right thing up until the end and then afterwards.   

[Greg Doudna]

On 12/25/2021 at 10:01 AM, John Butler said:

Greg,

Robert wrote a book in 1967.  The exact title escapes me at the moment.  The pic is in the book.

I generally pay attention to Tracy Parnell.  I believe he is an honest researcher.  I don't agree with many of his ideas.  I made a timeline of Harvey and Lee in the military.  His work was helpful in in verifying the timeline in places.  

I'm sorry to disappoint, but what I said was it was possible for Lee Oswald to be there.  I also said it is possible for Harvey to be there.  This is not based upon my ideas, but David Joseph's timeline of Harvey and Lee and research that I have done. 

My best assumption is that Robert did mean Lee Oswald was there in Feb. 1958 (don't take this out of context).  But, in reality which Oswald was really there?  When it was pointed out that Lee Oswald was in Japan at that time and place, he had to change the date.  He chose Sep. 1959.  Sep. is definitely a wrong date for the photo.  The temperature difference between Feb. and Sep. is extreme in the sense of cold weather to warm weather.

Mama Oswald, Robert Oswald, Marina, and possibly John Pic were all involved in this intelligence scheme.  Oswald's family were patriots.  They thought they were doing the right thing up until the end and then afterwards.   

Can you say where you are getting that Robert Oswald dated that photograph to Sept 1959? 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Greg Doudna

[John Butler]

On 12/26/2021 at 12:41 PM, Greg Doudna said:

Can you say where you are getting that Robert Oswald dated that photograph to Sept 1959? 

I had written this date in earlier works on several occasions and have gone back this time to see where it actually came from.  I have too many files on the JFKA.  I wasn't able to find who first cited this but will continue to look for where that was first used.  It is someone else's information.  Soon as I find it I will post.

[John Butler]

10 minutes ago, John Butler said:

I had written this date in earlier works on several occasions and have gone back this time to see where it actually came from.  I have too many files on the JFKA.  I wasn't able to find who first cited this but will continue to look for where that was first used.  It is someone else's information.  Soon as I find it I will post.

I believe it was at Robert's WC testimony while being questioned by Albert Jenner.  He said this:

The President's Commission met at 9:30 a.m., on February 20, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE, Washington, D.C. Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Cooper, Representative Hale Boggs, Representative Gerald R. Ford, and Allen W. Dulles, members. Also present were Lee Rankin, general counsel; Albert E. Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel; Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel; William McKenzie, attorney for Robert Edward Lee Oswald and Leon Jaworski, special counsel to the attorney general of Texas.

“Mr. JENNER. On the occasion during which you went hunting during that 3-day period, interregnum his return and his discharge and his departure for New Orleans, was the weapon he employed a bolt-action weapon?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; it was.” 

This part of the interrogation indicates the date was in Sept., 1959 just before Oswald left for Russia from New Orleans.  

This testimony was taken in Feb. 1964.  This was before he wrote his book.

It took me a while to find this.

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by John Butler

[W. Tracy Parnell]

1 hour ago, John Butler said:

This part of the interrogation indicates the date was in Sept., 1959 just before Oswald left for Russia from New Orleans.  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see Robert tying this hunting trip to the "hunter" photo.

[John Butler]

This was 1964 WC testimony.  None of the trips had been linked to a 1967 book photo.  Robert mentions during this testimony that there may have been 4 occasions for hunting trips.  None of these are linked to the hunting photo.

Robert Oswald WC testimony 1964 Hunting Trips

1.

This was during a leave that Lee had from the Marine Corps.
Mr. JENNER. During a leave that he had?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. And at which time, if I may correct myself there, another time comes to mind, I recall two times that we had this type of light hunting out there at that farm, at the same place. One time was during a leave that he had from the Marine Corps. I don't recall of any game at that particular time that we shot. I know we did handle the rifle and fired maybe target practice, something along that line. I don't recall of anything.
The second time that I now remember is during his stay after he returned from Russia, during his stay at my home in Fort Worth, that my wife and I and our children took him and his wife and child out to the farm to meet our in-laws, my in-laws, and also to do a little hunting while we was out there, and which we did just a very little bit. I believe this was on a Sunday afternoon and we didn't stay out very long.
 

 (This would be two different trips.  The first would be in 1957 or 1958?  The second one would be in the summer of 1962.  This trip does not match the photo weather wise.)

2.

Mr. JENNER. I have a recollection that when he was mustered out of the service in September of 1959 he spent two or three days at home in Fort Worth.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And there was an occasion when you and he and some friends of yours went on a hunting trip.
Mr. OSWALD. My brother-in-law.
Mr. JENNER. Or you went squirrel shooting or rabbit shooting.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.

(This particular trip would be in Sept. 1959.  It doesn't match the photo weather wise.)
 

3.

Mr. JENNER. What was the occasion of this trip? How did it come about? Did you suggest it, your brother- in-law, Lee or how?
Mr. OSWALD. The day that I recall that Lee stayed with us in-between the time he was discharged and the time he was supposed to be leaving for New Orleans was a period of 2 to 3 days. One of those days, I feel sure was it Saturday, either we spent all day out at my in-laws' farm or the afternoon at the farm at which time Lee and I, and my brother-in-law went hunting.
Mr. DULLES. Was this a couple of days before he left for Russia?
Mr. OSWALD. This was a couple of days before he left for New Orleans or about 1 day or 2 days before he left for New Orleans.
Mr. DULLES. And then he shipped out?
Mr. OSWALD. To locate a job.

(Robert skillfully avoids answering Jenner's question about the trip timing being after his discharge from the Marines and before his going to Russia.  This date does not match the photo weather wise.)

That leaves the trip when Oswald was on leave from the Marines.  Which could be Feb./Mar. 1957, or Feb. 1958, or Nov./Dec. 1958.  These are the best dates for the Hunter Photo since they are in colder weather.

I have no reason to doubt Robert's Feb. 1958 date. 

OBTW, there is a note from Tony Krome suggesting Oswald visited the farm prior to Sept. 1956.

"Pre-Sept., 1956- Tony Krome has provided information from Vada’s parents, Vada’s dad that Oswald visited the farm prior to being in the Marines for hunting."

That would be 5 visits and not relevant.  

Edited December 27, 2021 by John Butler

[Karl Hilliard]

On 12/21/2021 at 10:16 PM, Jonathan Cohen said:

Then that’s your opinion. But I think you’re only saying that because they disagree with you on numerous aspects of the assassination. That hardly makes them “jokesters.”

The guys that are mentioned in that [Jim's] post do not appear to agree [with those skeptical of the official tale] on any contrary aspect of the assassination. There is only one viewpoint with those guys--the official story is correct and final. However... there is a multitude of opposing views any of which one can take their pick. At the risk of repeating myself [and because Gil does not mention it in his intro]...Harry Holmes-- postal inspector... came up to the police bldg to stall things 'interview' Lee Oswald until Jack Ruby managed to arrive, ready to perform his work.

[Greg Doudna]

4 hours ago, John Butler said:

This was 1964 WC testimony.  None of the trips had been linked to a 1967 book photo.  Robert mentions during this testimony that there may have been 4 occasions for hunting trips.  None of these are linked to the hunting photo.

Thank you John for acknowledging that there is no basis to say that photo of Lee hunting was ever labeled by Robert Oswald as Sept 1959.