Excellent Presentation by Greg Wagner on TSBD witnesses

[David Boylan]

Dealey Plaza UK presentation by Greg.

 

 

[John Butler]

5 hours ago, David Boylan said:

Dealey Plaza UK presentation by Greg.

 

 

I have been listening to this and it is very, very interesting.  Glad to hear Bart Kamp say the figures in Dilliard are pasted into the photo.  I Always thought that.  I will finnish later after a few brief comments.  Howard Brennan's position in front of the TSBD is an issue of non-importance.  He simply could have turned slightly to keep up with the motorcade.  

I have a problem with finding Amos Euins in Dealey Plaza before and during the JFKA.  The two best sources are Dorman and Zapruder.  After the JFKA there are many photos of Amos.

I don't see Amos in these two films.  He has been identified here as:

This is a Bell frame I believe.  If you have a hard time seeing the white arrow, I put a large red arrow to identify the person.  That person is not Amos Euins.  Euins had a jacket, and dark trousers or blue jeans on that day.  Person pointed to by the arrows did not have a jacket on that day.  He has a pink shirt and light colored trousers.  You can see these light trousers through the retaining wall. 

This can be seen in Dorman and Zapruder with this individual is standing in the same place.  Notice in the above Bell frame that the person in pink is standing near a lady with a blue raincoat.  You can see the same thing in Dorman and Zapruder below.  He is a white teenager rather than a black teenager.

Nowhere in Dorman or Zapruder can I find a 15 year-old black teenager.  He is not in Bell either.  I can't find him in Hughes either.  Where is he?

Amos Euins is not a credible witness based on whether the shooter was a bald white guy or bald black quy.  I believe his step-father or father said you can't believe anything that boy says.  Where is he in Dealey Plaza at the time of the JFKA?

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by John Butler

[Chris Davidson]

Euins showing where he was during the shooting:

[John Butler]

Toni said he rounded the corner and his head blew up.

As far as I know Bell doesn't show Amos Euins before or during the JFKA.  Afterwards there are plenty of photos of Amos. I suspect he is somewhere in the neighborhood but not on camera.  Dorman is not good enough to determine if Amos is just back a little from this scene.  Hughes is too distant.  Almost all of the films have problems in front of the Court Records Building.  Anything on the west side Houston would not be seen. 

[Sean Coleman]

14 hours ago, John Butler said:

Toni said he rounded the corner and his head blew up.

As far as I know Bell doesn't show Amos Euins before or during the JFKA.  Afterwards there are plenty of photos of Amos. I suspect he is somewhere in the neighborhood but not on camera.  Dorman is not good enough to determine if Amos is just back a little from this scene.  Hughes is too distant.  Almost all of the films have problems in front of the Court Records Building.  Anything on the west side Houston would not be seen. 

Such a great shame Toni Glover couldn’t be of more help, she had one of the best seats in the house

[Lawrence Schnapf]

does anyone know who that person in the light blue shirt and blue shors standing on the retaining wall?

[Josh Cron]

That's Toni Glover.

[Don Roberdeau]

On 1/3/2022 at 9:41 AM, Sean Coleman said:

Such a great shame Toni Glover couldn’t be of more help, she had one of the best seats in the house

    Good  Day  Sean....  I have spoken directly with Dealey Plaza witness ANTOINETTE "Toni" GLOVER, several times, during the years.

The following is available within my "Men of Courage: President Kennedy-elimination"  homepages website.

 

When I personally contacted, interviewed in detail, and asked the close assassination witness, Dr. ANTOINETTE “Toni” GAIL GLOVER, if she could still see and watch President KENNEDY and the presidential limousine when the first shot that she remembered hearing (or, the first shot that she could hear) was fired, Dr. GLOVER first replied in very time stamping detail that also, very importantly, specifically, pinpoints President KENNEDY's location at her first heard shot....

“ There is a column in the plaza that blocked my view
for a second. I think the first shot was when my view
was blocked. ”

Dr. GLOVER’s very simple, straightforward, and very detailed statement above further strongly supports and synchronizes with the clear majority of the many key, close witnesses, and, the key, close weapons-experienced witnesses....

Dr. GLOVER stood elevated up on a cement pedestal that surrounds the North Reflecting Pool lower wall. Her precise location is photo-grammatically determined for my following scaled, accurate Dealey Plaza map with easily seeing her and her location in the films captured by ROBERT HUGHES.... MARK BELL.... and ELSIE DORMAN while Dr. GLOVER, wearing her turquoise-blue jacket, was standing up on what is now, and forever, known as “Glover’s pedestal.”
 

click here to enlarge the map in a followup window

http://i.imgur.com/6dYT66G.gif

Very, very significant, and exactly as Dr. GLOVER stated to me in her detailed assassination observations, as documented on the above precisely scaled map, President KENNEDY was first blocked out of her view when the pyracantha tree foliage first started to block JFK from her view at Z-174 to 175. That same Z-174 to 175 instant is when Dr. GLOVER’s view of JFK was first blocked out of her view because of the pyracantha tree foliage edge. That pyracantha tree is labeled “TGt-1” on my scaled map. That same pyracantha tree is also seen in the ZAPRUDER and other films and photos, and it is located a few feet west of the large, tall, five-sided cement column that also blocked Dr. GLOVER’s view of the President.

If the pyracantha tree did  not  first block her view of JFK at that instant (exactly as Dr. GLOVER stated), about one-third of a second after the pyracantha tree first blocked her view then the nearby, same tall column’s north, pointed side would have definitely first blocked President KENNEDY from her view at  Z-180 to 181. (labeled “TGc-1” for her line-of-sight on my DP map)

Then, as Dr. GLOVER stated, President KENNEDY would have become visible to her, again, just past the south side of the tall column, when the President was located at  Z-217 to 218 (labeled “TGc-2” for her line-of-sight on my DP map)

Employing the standard AVERAGE running time of the Zapruder film of 18.3 frames-per-second,  JFK would have been out of Dr. GLOVER’s view for exactly 2.3 seconds  (if it was the pyracantha tree first blocked JFK from her view),  or, for  2.0 seconds (if it was the column that first blocked JFK from her view)

I will also say that Dr. GLOVER’s key timing of the first shot that she heard (or *could* hear) that was fired between Z-174 and 218 is right in line with many of the close witnesses and close weapons-experienced witnesses who stated that the happily smiling President, first, had started his waving at Z-170 to 171),  and after he had first started waving,  it was THEN that the first shot they remembered hearing (or *could* hear) was fired and President KENNEDY immediately, dramatically, physically quickly reacted to it impacting him by ultra-rapidly snapping his head 87-degrees from right to left at Z-203 to 206, then, shaking his head, raising his arms/hands, and then facing back towards and settling into leaning forward and towards his wife before his head first exploded. (which Dr. GLOVER also watched happen, describing it as, “From my perspective, the plume of brains and blood sparkled a little in the Texas sun. I told my mom someone threw sparklers in the car!!!!”)
 

. . . . Additionally, while speaking with Dr. GLOVER I nearly immediately had a sense about something with respect to her that after our first of many conversations I then checked several times to confirm and positively make sure.... Dr. GLOVER was absolutely thrilled when I shared with her my discovery that she had never known about that her turquoise-blue coated shoulder, arm, and hand are also actually visible in several frames of the ZAPRUDER film, in the exact location she stated to me where she was standing during the attack!

DR. TONI GLOVER's view of President KENNEDY blocked by a tall column when she could hear a blast/shock wave

http://i.imgur.com/Q1C6vcf.jpg

. . . . And again, as with many witnesses who were actually there, Dr. GLOVER not being
able to see President KENNEDY from Z-180 to 218, = when she heard an audible
muzzle blast or mechanically suppressed-fired bullet bow shock N-wave = is in
very stark contradiction to the Warren Commission "lone-nut"-apologists,
current, revised “lone-nut”, supposed, “theory” that mandates the "lone-
nut" first shot (fired into a close by tree) at Z-150 to Z-160
(before the tree hid JFK from the "lone-nut") . . . .....

    Best  Regards  in  Research,

++   +Don
 

Donald Roberdeau

United States Navy
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth  emerges clearly
 

For your key considerations + independent determinations....

Homepages Website:  "Men of Courage:  President Kennedy-elimination":  Evidence, Witnesses,

Photographers, Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, Suspects, + Important, Key Considerations, in

One Convenient Resource....

http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html

the Dealey Plaza Detailed Map:  Documented 11-22-63 Victims Precise Locations +

Reactions, Evidence, Witnesses + Photographers locations, Suspected Bullet Trajectories,

Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, + Important Information + Key Considerations, in One

Convenient Resource....

https://i.imgur.com/8vSS1dp.gif

( updated map, + new information )

Discovery:  Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS
Zapruder Film Documented  2nd  Head Snap: West, Ultrafast,  and  Directly

Towards  the  Grassy  Knoll ....

http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html

Visual Report:  The  First  Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While JFK

was  Still  Hidden  Under  the warrenatti-apologist "Magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"....

http://i.imgur.com/rfRH5jX.gif

Visual Report:  Reality  Versus C.A.D. : the  Real  World, versus, Garbage-in-garbage-out....

http://i.imgur.com/r8Ga26x.gif

T  ogether
E  veryone
A  chieves
M  ore

Current  Terrorism  Alerts  for  the  United  States:  
http://www.dhs.gov

Edited January 9, 2022 by Don Roberdeau

[Pat Speer]

Amos Euins is right there in Bell, sitting on the wall on the WEST side of the fountain. Apparently, he forgot exactly where he was sitting and repeatedly told people the wrong location. Brennan, on the other hand, almost certainly fibbed about his location. He made out he was sitting towards the middle of the front wall of the fountain when he was actually sitting on the east side. So why fib? Well, he would have had great difficulty making out the face of a sniper's nest shooter from his actual location. So Belin and Brennan fibbed about where he was sitting. 

[Richard Price]

8 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Brennan, on the other hand, almost certainly fibbed about his location.

Pat, I know you are considered an authority on much about the assassination, but on this you are obviously and provably incorrect.  In the picture posted directly above (John Butler - January 2, 2022), there sits Brennan exactly where he said he was, just to the east of center by a few feet peering directly into the Presidential limo as it

turns onto Elm.  Brennan had as he said, a PANORAMIC view of the intersection, the TSBD and the Dal-Tex building.  To say he was not sitting in the center because he is a few feet to off is disingenuous.  I think Brennan himself only claimed to be "near the center of the wall".  He definitely did claim to have a "panoramic view".

 

[Pat Speer]

On 1/9/2022 at 7:02 AM, Richard Price said:

Pat, I know you are considered an authority on much about the assassination, but on this you are obviously and provably incorrect.  In the picture posted directly above (John Butler - January 2, 2022), there sits Brennan exactly where he said he was, just to the east of center by a few feet peering directly into the Presidential limo as it

turns onto Elm.  Brennan had as he said, a PANORAMIC view of the intersection, the TSBD and the Dal-Tex building.  To say he was not sitting in the center because he is a few feet to off is disingenuous.  I think Brennan himself only claimed to be "near the center of the wall".  He definitely did claim to have a "panoramic view".

 

You are apparently unfamiliar with CE 477, in which Brennan demonstrated his position. He placed himself several feet to the west and in much better position to view a sniper sitting back and to the east of the window.

 

P.S. This image comes from chapter 3 at patspeer.com. 

P.S. This image comes from chapter 3 at patspeer.com. It shows Brennan in his position as purported by him and placed into evidence by Belin, and compares it to Brennan's actual location as demonstrated in the Bell film. Now it might seem a few feet wouldn't make much of a difference. But it does. Photos taken from the sixth floor window demonstrating the sniper's view prove a person firing from the window could not even see a person in Brennan's actual location, which, conversely, proves Brennan could not have seen his face while firing. Now it's possible he may have seen Oswald or whoever leaning out the window before the shots were fired. But there's no way in heck he could have seen his face while firing. In short, it's clear to me Brennan exaggerated what he saw to gain some fame, or help his country, whatever. But no, I don't consider him a full-blown xxxx. He insisted to the end that the shooter was not wearing the shirt Oswald was wearing when arrested, which, since the WC concluded Oswald was wearing that shirt (in order to support the fabricated fiber evidence) means Brennan, the WC's star witness, actually claimed the man he saw was not Oswald. Of course, nobody reported that. Instead, life Magazine and Gerry Ford held him up as the WC's star witness, etc. And the rest is history. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Pat Speer

[John Butler]

14 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Amos Euins is right there in Bell, sitting on the wall on the WEST side of the fountain. Apparently, he forgot exactly where he was sitting and repeatedly told people the wrong location.

I couldn't find Amos Euins in Bell or any other film pre-shooting.  Amos Euins was not sitting on the retaining wall at the west end of the reflecting pool.

The best shot of the person there is in John Martin and matches Bell:

Amos looked like this on the day.  He had on a jacket and no hat:

and clearer,

He has different clothing than the man sitting on the western part of the retaining wall.  Zapruder doesn't show this man and Dorman does but very blurry.

 

 

 

[Richard Price]

3 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

You are apparently unfamiliar with CE 477, in which Brennan demonstrated his position. He placed himself several feet to the west and in much better position to view a sniper sitting back and to the east of the window.

Pat, I will not belabor the point, but I will hopefully have additional comment at a later time after some research.  I will say that the photo(s) as shown in exhibits 477/478 were taken at the direction of the Warren Commission and should be subject to some scrutiny, such as:  Was he positioned by the cameraman/lawyer setting up the photos or was he allowed to assume his position on his own recognizance.  Was he told to get in his EXACT position or just go sit near where you sat on 11/22.  With the amount of influence, some might even say coercion used on some of the witnesses, in order to get the "required/acceptable WC" answers, it needs to be examined with an open mind.  After all, Atty. Belin would NEVER stoop so low as to misrepresent witness testimony, would he?

[Chris Davidson]

Hughes was farther east than Brennan's actual seated position on the wall.

The limo is rounding the Elm St turn.

Red arrow(right side image) points to Brennan's sitting location.

The red arrow(left side image) points to the same object on the 6th floor.

It's the same frame at different enlargements:

 

 

 

 

[Sean Coleman]

On 1/8/2022 at 9:39 AM, Don Roberdeau said:

    Good  Day  Sean....  I have spoken directly with Dealey Plaza witness ANTOINETTE "Toni" GLOVER, several times, during the years.

The following is available within my "Men of Courage: President Kennedy-elimination"  homepages website.

 

When I personally contacted, interviewed in detail, and asked the close assassination witness, Dr. ANTOINETTE “Toni” GAIL GLOVER, if she could still see and watch President KENNEDY and the presidential limousine when the first shot that she remembered hearing (or, the first shot that she could hear) was fired, Dr. GLOVER first replied in very time stamping detail that also, very importantly, specifically, pinpoints President KENNEDY's location at her first heard shot....

“ There is a column in the plaza that blocked my view
for a second. I think the first shot was when my view
was blocked. ”

Dr. GLOVER’s very simple, straightforward, and very detailed statement above further strongly supports and synchronizes with the clear majority of the many key, close witnesses, and, the key, close weapons-experienced witnesses....

Dr. GLOVER stood elevated up on a cement pedestal that surrounds the North Reflecting Pool lower wall. Her precise location is photo-grammatically determined for my following scaled, accurate Dealey Plaza map with easily seeing her and her location in the films captured by ROBERT HUGHES.... MARK BELL.... and ELSIE DORMAN while Dr. GLOVER, wearing her turquoise-blue jacket, was standing up on what is now, and forever, known as “Glover’s pedestal.”
 

click here to enlarge the map in a followup window

http://i.imgur.com/6dYT66G.gif

Very, very significant, and exactly as Dr. GLOVER stated to me in her detailed assassination observations, as documented on the above precisely scaled map, President KENNEDY was first blocked out of her view when the pyracantha tree foliage first started to block JFK from her view at Z-174 to 175. That same Z-174 to 175 instant is when Dr. GLOVER’s view of JFK was first blocked out of her view because of the pyracantha tree foliage edge. That pyracantha tree is labeled “TGt-1” on my scaled map. That same pyracantha tree is also seen in the ZAPRUDER and other films and photos, and it is located a few feet west of the large, tall, five-sided cement column that also blocked Dr. GLOVER’s view of the President.

If the pyracantha tree did  not  first block her view of JFK at that instant (exactly as Dr. GLOVER stated), about one-third of a second after the pyracantha tree first blocked her view then the nearby, same tall column’s north, pointed side would have definitely first blocked President KENNEDY from her view at  Z-180 to 181. (labeled “TGc-1” for her line-of-sight on my DP map)

Then, as Dr. GLOVER stated, President KENNEDY would have become visible to her, again, just past the south side of the tall column, when the President was located at  Z-217 to 218 (labeled “TGc-2” for her line-of-sight on my DP map)

Employing the standard AVERAGE running time of the Zapruder film of 18.3 frames-per-second,  JFK would have been out of Dr. GLOVER’s view for exactly 2.3 seconds  (if it was the pyracantha tree first blocked JFK from her view),  or, for  2.0 seconds (if it was the column that first blocked JFK from her view)

I will also say that Dr. GLOVER’s key timing of the first shot that she heard (or *could* hear) that was fired between Z-174 and 218 is right in line with many of the close witnesses and close weapons-experienced witnesses who stated that the happily smiling President, first, had started his waving at Z-170 to 171),  and after he had first started waving,  it was THEN that the first shot they remembered hearing (or *could* hear) was fired and President KENNEDY immediately, dramatically, physically quickly reacted to it impacting him by ultra-rapidly snapping his head 87-degrees from right to left at Z-203 to 206, then, shaking his head, raising his arms/hands, and then facing back towards and settling into leaning forward and towards his wife before his head first exploded. (which Dr. GLOVER also watched happen, describing it as, “From my perspective, the plume of brains and blood sparkled a little in the Texas sun. I told my mom someone threw sparklers in the car!!!!”)
 

. . . . Additionally, while speaking with Dr. GLOVER I nearly immediately had a sense about something with respect to her that after our first of many conversations I then checked several times to confirm and positively make sure.... Dr. GLOVER was absolutely thrilled when I shared with her my discovery that she had never known about that her turquoise-blue coated shoulder, arm, and hand are also actually visible in several frames of the ZAPRUDER film, in the exact location she stated to me where she was standing during the attack!

DR. TONI GLOVER's view of President KENNEDY blocked by a tall column when she could hear a blast/shock wave

http://i.imgur.com/Q1C6vcf.jpg

. . . . And again, as with many witnesses who were actually there, Dr. GLOVER not being
able to see President KENNEDY from Z-180 to 218, = when she heard an audible
muzzle blast or mechanically suppressed-fired bullet bow shock N-wave = is in
very stark contradiction to the Warren Commission "lone-nut"-apologists,
current, revised “lone-nut”, supposed, “theory” that mandates the "lone-
nut" first shot (fired into a close by tree) at Z-150 to Z-160
(before the tree hid JFK from the "lone-nut") . . . .....

    Best  Regards  in  Research,

++   +Don
 

Donald Roberdeau

United States Navy
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth  emerges clearly
 

For your key considerations + independent determinations....

Homepages Website:  "Men of Courage:  President Kennedy-elimination":  Evidence, Witnesses,

Photographers, Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, Suspects, + Important, Key Considerations, in

One Convenient Resource....

http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html

the Dealey Plaza Detailed Map:  Documented 11-22-63 Victims Precise Locations +

Reactions, Evidence, Witnesses + Photographers locations, Suspected Bullet Trajectories,

Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, + Important Information + Key Considerations, in One

Convenient Resource....

https://i.imgur.com/8vSS1dp.gif

( updated map, + new information )

Discovery:  Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS
Zapruder Film Documented  2nd  Head Snap: West, Ultrafast,  and  Directly

Towards  the  Grassy  Knoll ....

http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html

Visual Report:  The  First  Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While JFK

was  Still  Hidden  Under  the warrenatti-apologist "Magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"....

http://i.imgur.com/rfRH5jX.gif

Visual Report:  Reality  Versus C.A.D. : the  Real  World, versus, Garbage-in-garbage-out....

http://i.imgur.com/r8Ga26x.gif

T  ogether
E  veryone
A  chieves
M  ore

Current  Terrorism  Alerts  for  the  United  States:  
http://www.dhs.gov

Great info Don, as insightful, educational and colourful as ever!

Read your Rosemary Willis item too, they tie in together quite well - two 10 year old girls helping solving the JFKA? Whatever next….