Sgt. Kenneth Hudson Croy. A Mason

[Roy Wieselquist]

Speaking of DPD who aided in the assassination of the Wizard of Ozzie (even though this is the Croy...Mason topic), Jim Leavelle is looking worse and worse. There's a great Youtube video by Tom Meros,        Jack Ruby's timely time-stamped visit to Western Union - YouTube  that points out many of the suspicious activities of JL on 11/24. Starting with that white suit and white Stetson. Leavelle was probably the only man in Dallas wearing a white suit that weekend. Kind of like Umbrella Man was the only one holding a black umbrella and pumping it up and down.

Tom Meros comments that wearing all white on that mournful day "was like wearing a clown costume to a funeral"

With police like that, who needs criminals?

Edited January 18, 2022 by Roy Wieselquist

[Steve Thomas]

On 1/17/2022 at 3:22 PM, Ken Martinson said:

 

Deleted

Steve Thomas

Edited August 25, 2023 by Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

Deleted

Steve Thomas

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Steve Thomas

[Ken Martinson]

2 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Was Ethel, Hudson's middle name, or his wife's name?

Did Kenneth move in with his daughter or his son between 1961 and 1963, and did they move their real estate business from Wall to S. Lamar?

 

Ethel was his mother's name. Kenneth was age 26 in the summer of 1963, and said he was separated at the time. So, he may have been living with his mother.

In his memorial statement it mentions "the mother of his 4 children", and no mention of his wife.

[Jim Hargrove]

On 1/18/2022 at 6:04 AM, Roy Wieselquist said:

Jim H.,

That diagram of Jack Ruby's probable path into the DPD 11.24 is pure gold. It HAD to happen like that. I've been looking for this for many years.

That wiring of the measly funds from Western Union was time-stamped 11:16, and JR shot Oswald at 11:21. Allowing a minute, two at most, for the two clocks being off a little, JR got into position in about five minutes from the time he left WU. He had to have help getting in through a door locked from the inside. The Western Union is just on the other side of the DPD parking lot. There is no way Ruby had time to walk down any heavily-watched ramp, as the War Con speculated.

IMHO, "Blackie" Harrison also assisted Ruby's getting into position. Wasn't the cigarette/cigar machine that had Blackie's brand at one of the exit doors? This action required at least two DPD to pull it off, at least one lookout and one escort. Probably since Harrison had a likely excuse to be at that door, it was he who was looking out for JR with the door just cracked open. And ol' Blackie was also around Jack Ruby, like Croy, when the old gangster jumped out and stuck his gat in Ozzie's gut. This diagram is priceless.

 

Also, the work of the John Armstrong branch of the research community on Westbrook and Croy 11.22 is pure gold, especially at the Tippit murder scene. This is nailing down a big part of how the coup of 1963 was carried out

Thanks, Roy.

John reasons that the Western Union appearance by Ruby was just a pretext to get him near the jail so it could be argued that Oswald’s murder was relatively spontaneous, thus avoiding a pre-meditated charge.  Thanks also for the specific times; I knew it was just a few minutes between the Western Union time and the shooting.  

Can’t help much with Harrison, but John is becoming more certain that Fritz had to be involved in this thing.  One of the principle reasons (there are several) is that Fritz simply HAD to know about the two Oswald wallets early in the game and never said anything about them.

Just to keep it fresh for everyone, I’m going to repeat John’s diagram from the first page here:

[Jim Hargrove]

We’ve been wondering for some time how it was possible to coordinate the movements of Oswald and Ruby so that the killing could take place a mere 5 minutes after the Western Union money gram was time stamped.  Walkie-talkies certainly existed in 1963 but were probably bulky and might have attracted attention.

John and I did a little research yesterday morning and discovered that, according to a 12/6/63 DPD report to Chief Curry, Ruby’s car that Sunday was parked at 2035 Main St., which in 1963 was an open air lot clearly visible from the windows on the third floor of the Dallas Municipal Building, where the police offices were.

It should be noted that there are columns and other architectural  features that block much of the view from these windows.  Because John had toured a number of times both the Dallas Municipal Bldg and the newer annex right next to it, he knew that the 2035 Main St. lot would be in the direct view of some of those Muni Bldg windows, even though they had limited visibility.  This may have simplified coordinating Oswald’s transfer with Ruby’s arrival.

[Ken Martinson]

17 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

We’ve been wondering for some time how it was possible to coordinate the movements of Oswald and Ruby so that the killing could take place a mere 5 minutes after the Western Union money gram was time stamped.  Walkie-talkies certainly existed in 1963 but were probably bulky and might have attracted attention.

John and I did a little research yesterday morning and discovered that, according to a 12/6/63 DPD report to Chief Curry, Ruby’s car that Sunday was parked at 2035 Main St., which in 1963 was an open air lot clearly visible from the windows on the third floor of the Dallas Municipal Building, where the police offices were.

It should be noted that there are columns and other architectural  features that block much of the view from these windows.  Because John had toured a number of times both the Dallas Municipal Bldg and the newer annex right next to it, he knew that the 2035 Main St. lot would be in the direct view of some of those Muni Bldg windows, even though they had limited visibility.  This may have simplified coordinating Oswald’s transfer with Ruby’s arrival.

I would agree with those who say the communication was purely visual between Ruby and Jim Leavelle and maybe some DPD officer looking out the window. Ruby paused in front of the Western Union until he saw Jim L and his white suit in the windows. Ruby started to walk, an officer in the window saw Ruby moving, then Jim L. and maybe another officer started the process of transferring Oswald.

Was Croy waiting at the entrance of the DPD? It could be.

How many in the DPD would need to be involved? Certainly more than 2 (Croy and Jim L.) and less than 50. Would 5 - 10 be a reasonable number? I think the DPD and Masons are both strongly inclined to keeping secrets in general, and especially those which resonate with their core beliefs.

The weakness in the Croy - Oswald narrative is the assumption that Lee Oswald (the American) shot Tippit 4 times. Here is a guy who grew up in New Orleans, served in the Military, got into intelligence operations. And is then ordered to shoot and kill a DPD officer on the street. If he had killed before on American streets, then I can see it. If he had never killed anyone before, I don't see it likely. Since, Oswald (Lee or Harvey) was identified by by Jeanette Davis later that day in a 4-man lineup. I would lean towards Lee Oswald having some sort of dark past after his military career ended in 1960 (?). Maybe even with the mafia.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Ken Martinson

[Tony Rose]

On 1/17/2022 at 2:14 AM, Ken Martinson said:

Croy became a volunteer Police Officer at age 23. (what kind of young man volunteers for such work? Most people want to be paid for work)

He was age 26 when he was "first on the scene" of the Tippit murder. He was also a Mason at the "Oak Cliff" branch.

Do we know who else was a member of the Oak Cliff branch of the Masons in 1963 ?

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/99498100/kenneth-hudson-croy

http://harveyandlee.net/Tippit/Tippit.html

A Freemason is a member of a Masonic lodge.  The lodge meets at a temple or a hall.

[Tony Rose]

On 1/17/2022 at 12:06 PM, Ken Martinson said:

From what I've heard, the Freemasons is a highly secretive organization, and often has influential people as members. The Rotary Club is an offshoot of the Freemasons, and does not have the secrecy. I was invited to a Rotary Luncheon one time and sat at a table with a Supreme Court judge who was on his lunch break.

What more can we dig up about Sgt. Croy? It looks like he died in 2012, and had a long career in the police service. And was a member of two Freemason lodges. From what I know, to be a member in good standing, you need to attend a (secret) meeting once a week.

I suspect membership lists are hard to come by. My uncle was a member, and he had a membership list in his house, so they are not that secret.

Has anyone investigated the whole Dallas Police Force during 1963?

 

 

As far as I know, there is no connection between Rotary and Freemasonry, except for probably overlap of membership.

To be a member in good standing of a lodge, one must pay one's dues.  Meeting attendance requirements are probably determined on a lodge by lodge basis.

Membership lists are held by Grand Lodges, which govern a given georgraphic area.  I don't know how easy it is to get copies.

Disclaimer:  I am not a Freemason of any sort.

[Jim Hargrove]

David Josephs just found a nifty WC document that gives the official version of where everyone was in the DPD basement at the time Ruby shot Oswald.  (The copy of the diagram DJ got was a HUGE PDF file that I’ve converted to jpg and cropped so it would be readable here.  (You may have to expand the image to read the circled numbers.) There is more on the original map to the left, right, and top than what is visible here.)

Immediately below the diagram is a three-page WC list identifying the call-outs on the diagram by name.  Remember that this is supposed to illustrate where everyone was standing at the time Oswald was shot.  Ken Croy, to pick a random name, was standing right next to Oswald at that time.  Note that several officers were moved from critical areas a few hours before the killing, but they nevertheless are depicted here several hours later.

Comments welcomed.

[Ken Martinson]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

David Josephs just found a nifty WC document that gives the official version of where everyone was in the DPD basement at the time Ruby shot Oswald.  (The copy of the diagram DJ got was a HUGE PDF file that I’ve converted to jpg and cropped so it would be readable here.  (You may have to expand the image to read the circled numbers.) There is more on the original map to the left, right, and top than what is visible here.)

Immediately below the diagram is a three-page WC list identifying the call-outs on the diagram by name.  Remember that this is supposed to illustrate where everyone was standing at the time Oswald was shot.  Ken Croy, to pick a random name, was standing right next to Oswald at that time.  Note that several officers were moved from critical areas a few hours before the killing, but they nevertheless are depicted here several hours later.

Comments welcomed.

100-B could have been Peter Worthington. The only Canadian reporter there. There is a photo of him up against a wall right after the shooting.

What do you mean by : Note that several officers were moved from critical areas

Do you mean that their shifts ended at 11:00am or 10:15am, and that they are still recorded? Or that they were told to move before their shift ended?

Kenneth Croy (#21) is at least 10 ft from Oswald, I would say.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Ken Martinson

[Jim Hargrove]

Ken,

For example, # 8 on the diagram, A.R. Brock, was “moved at 10:15 A.M.,” according to the WC.  John has another report (I don’t have it yet) stating that several DPD cops were moved from headquarters to traffic duty late that morning.

From the position Brock occupied, it would have been easy to escort Ruby directly to Oswald, or to spot anyone else doing the same thing, or to see Ruby walking by himself, assuming Ruby entered the building as we suspect.  My guess is that Croy replaced Brock somewhere near where #8 is indicated on the diagram, or perhaps just up to the top of the nearby stairs.

Croy is actually #21 on the map, but 10 feet from Oswald looks about right to me.  You can see from the photographs, however, how close Croy was to Ruby just before Oswald came into view.  I believe Croy testified that he actually touched Ruby’s jacket in a heroic (but failed) effort to stop him. Croy admits/claims he was also the first cop at the Tippit murder scene and that he found the other Oswald wallet there!  What a guy!

[Denis Morissette]

I think this is Croy. 

[Jim Hargrove]

Denis,

In the photos I've seen from that Sunday afternoon, Croy was wearing a white hat.  Do you have reason to believe otherwise?

[Denis Morissette]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Denis,

In the photos I've seen from that Sunday afternoon, Croy was wearing a white hat.  Do you have reason to believe otherwise?

How do you know that Croy was wearing a white hat?