Into the Nightmare: A Milestone

[Bill Brown]

8 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

This would need to be substantiated. Every source I have read about what Warren Reynolds said is he would not identify the man he saw fleeing as Oswald, until after he was shot in the head and his family received death threats then he suddenly fingered Oswald. No real surprise considering the threats.

Then go substantiate it.  I've already given you the information.

 

Aren't you the guy who, a couple pages back, asked what the going rate was on guarantees, while being totally unaware of the evidence you were commenting on?  I have no desire to help you along. 

[Charles Blackmon]

4 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Then go substantiate it.  I've already given you the information.

 

Aren't you the guy who, a couple pages back, asked what the going rate was on guarantees, while being totally unaware of the evidence you were commenting on?  I have no desire to help you along. 

In other words, you are into spreading misinformation.

[James DiEugenio]

Now that we established a few things, let us begin to boil them down.

Nelson and Tippit were ordered into the area of Oak Cliff where Tippit would be killed.  Yet Nelson ended up in Dealey Plaza.  Nelson however,  ended up not being called by the WC or the HSCA. And therefore no one ended up finding out whether or not the calls on the radio transcript were genuine.  

As Joe McBride pointedly asks: would one need to call two policemen into that area when you had someone already there, namely Mentzel. While the crime of the city's century had just taken place in Dealey Plaza?

But besides the questions about the radio call for Tippit and Nelson, there are also the weird stories of Westbrook and Croy.  And make no mistake about it, the stories these guys told about how they got to Tenth and Patton were humdingers.

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Let us take Westbrook first.  This is from my essay "The Tippit Case in the New Millenium."

Westbrook was the chief of the personnel department. (WC 7, p. 110) That is, he handled background inquiries for applications and investigated complaints. He did not even wear a uniform. On the day of the assassination, Westbrook sent his men to the Texas School Book Depository. After the office was empty and he was the only one there, Westbrook told the Commission he got antsy, so—and he fittingly prefaced the following with “believe it or not”—he decided to walk to the Depository alone. He also added that, even though he had a radio, he would stop occasionally to get an update on a transistor radio from groups of people standing on the sidewalk. The distance between the police station and the depository is about one mile. If one adds in the stopping to listen to civilians with radios, one could say that Westbrook’s unaccounted time here could amount to as much as 20 minutes or more.

Capt. William Ralph Westbrook

Westbrook testified that while he was at the depository, he heard someone say an officer had been shot in Oak Cliff. He felt —and again this may also be hard to swallow—that since he was in personnel he should investigate the homicide. (WC 7, p. 111)

[James DiEugenio]

Let us continue with Westbrook's rather odd tale:

In other words, it was all in a personnel officer’s workday. Thanks to being bored at his personnel desk, Westbrook became one of the few officers who showed up at the depository, the Tippit murder scene and the Texas Theater. But this does not actually do his busy day justice. As former British detective Ian Griggs has noted, Westbrook is also credited with finding the Tippit killer’s jacket and going to a nearby library to investigate a false alarm about the assailant being there. (Ian Griggs, No Case to Answer, p. 131-32) As Griggs points out, although he is credited with finding the jacket, Westbrook actually denied he did so. He said some other policeman gave it to him—but he cannot recall his name. Further, he did not place the discovery of the jacket on the report he gave to the Commission. Attorney Joseph Ball had to ask him, “Did you ever find something?” (WC Vol. 7, p. 115) Westbrook immediately said he did not find it; some other officer did.

[James DiEugenio]

Please note, each above reference but one is to the WC.

They listened to this story and never asked a challenging question.

Like: Why would you leave the office completely unmanned?

Edited August 3, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

If you can comprehend it, Croy's story is worse:

First of all, Croy was not a regular officer. He was a reserve officer. He drove patrol car duty perhaps once a month. (WC 12, p. 195) On the day of the assassination, Croy said he was just off of Main street when he heard President Kennedy was shot.

Croy was just a few blocks from Dealey Plaza at this time. He then said that he drove to the nearby courthouse to see if the police might need some help. (WC 12, p. 200) Considering the circumstances, it is hard to believe that Croy had to ask this question, or that the police would say no if he did. But Croy said he could not recall whom he asked, and Commission counsel Burt Griffin did not probe the answer to Croy’s question on November 22, 1963. Croy added that, amid all the tumult going on a few blocks away, he decided to go home. He then said that he heard a call about an officer being shot.

As the reader can see, there really is no way so far to corroborate Croy’s whereabouts from the time of the assassination to the time of him arriving at the scene of the Tippit shooting. And Croy insisted he was the first policeman there. (WC 12, p. 201)

[James DiEugenio]

Croy and his tale, part 2:

 

From his description, once he was there, he talked to Helen Markham. But as Griffin questioned him about his discussion with Markham, a surprising admission came into the record. Croy claimed he did not file a report on his activities that day. Once Griffin elicited this piece of information, he just passed it by, making no comment or inquiry about it. Which is remarkable considering Croy’s insistence he was the first officer at the scene. (Emphasis added) 

Croy stated he was at 10^th and Patton for approximately 30 minutes, perhaps a bit more. (WC 12, p. 202) When Griffin asked him what he did after he left, Croy answered that he went to get something to eat. He also said he stayed home the rest of the day. Again, Griffin let this pass. There was no question as to why Croy did not go to the station to pen a written report or give an oral report. When Griffin asked Croy if there were any officers at the scene that he knew, Croy replied in a curious way: “There were several officers there that I knew. I don’t know their names.” (WC 12, p. 203) He went on to say that he only knew them by sight. In other words, we are led to believe that even if Croy had written a report he would not have been able to relate it to any other officer.

Edited August 3, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Croy's tale, part 3:

As Croy left 10^th and Patton, he said he drove near the Texas Theater and saw squad cars around the building. He decided not to stop since he felt the situation was well in hand. After first telling Griffin he was going to get something to eat and go home, he then said that he actually met his estranged wife at Austin’s Barbecue. (WC 12, p. 205) And this is where Croy’s story gets even more retroactively bizarre. He now added that right after Kennedy’s assassination, the cops he did talk to told him he was not needed. The wife from who he was separated happened to drive up next to him and he asked her if she wanted to get something to eat. Consider this fact: Croy was in uniform. He was just off Dealey Plaza; sirens, and scores of policemen are pouring into the area; searches are being organized of the depository building and the area behind the picket fence.

Approximate location of Croy when he and his estranged wife arranged to meet for lunch after the assassination. If this really happened, it would make for a good SNL skit.

Croy now added something even more puzzling. He said that before going to the diner, he intended to go to his parents’ house to change his clothes. Presumably, this was when he heard about the Tippit shooting. Due to his job duties, he was late for the dinner with his estranged wife. He colorfully adds that she was angry. Apparently sharing a hamburger was more important than the murder of a police officer. (This writer is not aware if Griffin ever called her to confirm this tale.)

[James DiEugenio]

In rereading all the above again, I really do not know what is worse.

The fact that the two would really say this stuff to an official body, or the fact that no questioner challenged either man.

But here is my bottom line point:  just as Tippit should not have been where he was, and there are all kinds of questions about why and how he was there and got there, is there a credible reason given as to why these two men were there?

Edited August 3, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Why are those questions important?

Because it was Westbrook who found the jacket and it was Croy who first handled the wallet.

Except, except:

Neither man knew or recalled who he got either item from. Just all part of a big coincidence right?

😗

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

58 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Why are those questions important?

Because it was Westbrook who found the jacket and it was Croy who first handled the wallet.

Except, except:

Neither man knew or recalled who he got either item from. Just all part of a big coincidence right?

😗

 

The wallet at the Tippit murder scene is endlessly curious. It is seen in grainy b/w same-day TV coverage, and referred to by an FBI agent.

Some say the TV footage is not of LHO's wallet...but really, another wallet that looks just like LHO's wallet and it is being examined at the Tippit crime scene as if it is evidence? The odds of that....

So, who planted the wallet?

I don't mean Croy---I mean a variation of the expression, "It is not who fired the bullet, but who hired the gun." 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Ron Bulman]

Coincidence Theorists would likely agree.  Ref, same on common tropes of, pg. 245, Political Truth. 

[James DiEugenio]

As the old saying goes:  this is so fishy you could fill an aquarium.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Bill Brown]

5 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

In other words, you are into spreading misinformation.

So because you're unfamiliar with the evidence means I'm spreading misinformation?