Roger Craig's "When they kill a president"

[Joe Bauer]

5 hours ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

From Sp-Ed on Craig, 2nd alinea :

In 1951 Craig joined the United States Army and served in Japan before moving to Texas in 1955. According to his daughter, Deanna Rae Craig: "was released from duty because he kept injuring himself."

 

I mean,  who writes that stuff... 

Craig Roger "was released from duty because he kept injuring himself." ?

How long did Craig serve in the army total? 1 year, 2, 3?

That's not a brief time. The army waited 1 to 3 years before discharging him?

Was he self-injured half the time? Once a month?

The quote from Craig's daughter above could be interpreted very negatively regards Craig's over-all mental or physical health history. Or, with more details maybe not?

From what I remember reading of Craig he had such a tough and neglected early childhood ( in some northern Midwest state ) he ran away from whatever home situation he was in at some incredibly young age. Like 11 or 12? 

Rode trains? Found work on farms? On his own starting at that young age?

Craig was so thin even in photos of him as a sheriff, that my guess is that he was at times starving as a young man or even a child. Poor as can be.

But taking on the wide open world at the age of 11 or 12 alone, and somehow surviving while working hard physical jobs outdoors ( the winters are long and brutal in the Northern Midwest states ) and then trying to join the army while underage and doing so ... is a remarkable show of inner strength courage and character.

Just trying to get a feel for the true character and make up of Roger Craig the man.

A man who chose to speak out more than any other Dallas area policeman ( maybe the only one? ) about what he witnessed being right in Dealey Plaza and on the 6th floor of the TXSBD building minutes after JFK was killed there.

And with claims that if true, revealed shockingly contrary information other than what the DPD was reporting to the media or not reporting at all.

In so doing and later working for outside researchers investigating the case, he was literally committing suicide albeit a long drawn out over 12 years one.

Whether Craig had some deeply scaring emotional issues starting from early childhood and that manifested themselves in his later adult life through his extremely risky decision to dangerously buck the good-ole-boy Dallas police and sheriff club and state publicly things that threatened their credibility and integrity standing to perhaps fill some self-image damaged hole and be somebody, or he just happened to have a heroic nature beyond those other officers...is a question I have pondered.

I'm guessing Craig wasn't your typical racist deep South raised good-ole-boy that made up much of Southern City police forces in the 1950's and 60's.

He was born and raised in Northern states which typically were not of that mind set to the degree that so many South of the Mason Dixon line men were. 

Imo Craig saw and heard things in his insider law enforcement position starting from 11,22,1963 that in the least revealed the reality that the great majority of Dallas police and Sheriff personnel hated JFK with a passion for his perceived stance on race issues and how this hatred may have influenced certain aspects of their behavior in the aftermath of 11,22,1963.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Derek Thibeault]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

Craig Roger "was released from duty because he kept injuring himself." ?

How long did Craig serve in the army total? 1 year, 2, 3?

That's not a brief time. The army waited 1 to 3 years before discharging him?

Was he self-injured half the time? Once a month?

The quote from Craig's daughter above could be interpreted very negatively regards Craig's over-all mental or physical health history. Or, with more details maybe not?

From what I remember reading of Craig he had such a tough and neglected early childhood ( in some northern Midwest state ) he ran away from whatever home situation he was in at some incredibly young age. Like 11 or 12? 

Rode trains? Found work on farms? On his own starting at that young age?

Craig was so thin even in photos of him as a sheriff, that my guess is that he was at times starving as a young man or even a child. Poor as can be.

But taking on the wide open world at the age of 11 or 12 alone, and somehow surviving while working hard physical jobs outdoors ( the winters are long and brutal in the Northern Midwest states ) and then trying to join the army while underage and doing so ... is a remarkable show of inner strength and character.

Just trying to get a feel for the true character and make up of Roger Craig the man.

A man who chose to speak out more than any other Dallas area policeman ( maybe the only one? ) about what he witnessed being right in Dealey Plaza and on the 6th floor of the TXSBD building minutes after JFK was killed there.

And with claims that if true, revealed shockingly contrary information other than what the DPD was reporting to the media or not reporting at all.

In so doing and later working for outside researchers investigating the case, he was literally committing suicide albeit a long drawn out over 12 years one.

Whether Craig had some deeply scaring emotional issues starting from early childhood and that manifested themselves in his later adult life through his extremely risky decision to dangerously buck the good ole boy Dallas police and sheriff club and state publicly things that threatened their credibility and integrity standing to perhaps fill some self-image damaged hole and be somebody, or he just happened to have a heroic nature beyond those other officers...is a question I have pondered.

I'm guessing Craig wasn't your typical racist deep South raised good-ole-boy that made up much of Southern City police forces in the 1950's and 60's.

He was born and raised in Northern states which typically were not of that mind set to the degree that South of the Mason Dixon line men were. 

Imo Craig saw and heard things in his insider law enforcement position starting from 11,22,1963 that in the least revealed the reality that the great majority of Dallas police and Sheriff personnel hated JFK with a passion for his perceived stance on race issues and how this hatred may have influenced certain aspects of their behavior in the aftermath of 11,22,1963.

 

 

 

Yeah, my thoughts are most witness have some truths, others flat out lie and others make honest mistakes based on poor memory or just the heightened sense of the events unfolding. Very easy to mistake seeing LHO. The brain plays tricks. But I believe in a lot of his story, the stuff about Buddy Walther, the whole conduct of the Dallas Police force. If he had some mental challenges, surely all of this would certainly raise whatever issues he had. But I do believe he was honest, and his story is true in his mind. Maybe he wanted to see what he says he saw, or maybe he really saw it all. I think he is one of the many victims in this case. But without hard evidence who knows, I certainly want to believe him, I think going against the cops in this situation was admirable, that police force was brutal.

[Guest]

What still bothers me is the 1963 - 1967 period.

As it seems (and in some twisted retrospect), one could almost say the WC did him a favor in allegedly altering his statements...

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

2 minutes ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

What still bothers me is the 1963 - 1967 period.

As it seems (and in some twisted retrospect), one could almost say the WC did him a favor in allegedly altering his statements...

 

 

Jean Paul...in what way could the WC do Craig a favor by altering his sworn oath statements?

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Jean Paul...in what way could the WC do Craig a favor by altering his sworn oath statements?

It seems the altered WC version didn't get him the negative reactions he got after the Garrison case (that was almost 4 years later I think ?).

He somehow managed to get around untill that (correct me if I'm wrong, I have not yet gone in full detail on all what was written on Roger Craig)

 

[Bill Brown]

In 1968, during an interview (along with Penn Jones) with the L.A. Free Press, Roger Craig was asked about the Tippit shooting.  Craig told the interviewer that the shooting occurred at 1:45.
Jones immediately corrected Craig, informing him that the shooting occurred around 1:15.  Craig responded with "Oh?  Is that right? Okay." (or words to that effect, I'm going by memory) 
The bottom line is, in 1968, Craig obviously had no idea what time the Tippit shooting occurred.

Then years later, in the early 70's when writing his manuscript, Craig tells the story of being in Dealey Plaza and hearing of the shooting of the police officer in Oak Cliff.  In the scenario, Craig supposedly looks at his watch and notes that it said the time was 1:06.

 

1968:  Craig has no idea what time the Tippit shooting occurred

 

Early 70's:  Craig suddenly remembers looking at his watch and it said the time was 1:06

 

Yeah right.

[Tony Krome]

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said:

In 1968, during an interview (along with Penn Jones) with the L.A. Free Press, Roger Craig was asked about the Tippit shooting.  Craig told the interviewer that the shooting occurred at 1:45.
Jones immediately corrected Craig, informing him that the shooting occurred around 1:15.  Craig responded with "Oh?  Is that right? Okay." (or words to that effect, I'm going by memory) 
The bottom line is, in 1968, Craig obviously had no idea what time the Tippit shooting occurred.

Then years later, in the early 70's when writing his manuscript, Craig tells the story of being in Dealey Plaza and hearing of the shooting of the police officer in Oak Cliff.  In the scenario, Craig supposedly looks at his watch and notes that it said the time was 1:06.

 

1968:  Craig has no idea what time the Tippit shooting occurred

 

Early 70's:  Craig suddenly remembers looking at his watch and it said the time was 1:06

 

Yeah right.

Roger Craig told Free Press that Tippit was killed about 1:40, not 1:45 as you stated. People make mistakes recalling times.

[David Von Pein]

Just now, Tony Krome said:

Roger Craig told Free Press that Tippit was killed about 1:40, not 1:45 as you stated. People make mistakes recalling times.

Well, gosh, 1:40 is just as bad as 1:45 in this instance. Either way, it's pretty clear that Craig had no clue as to when Tippit was really killed. Just as he had no clue as to what kind of rifle was found in the TSBD. And he said exactly that in 1968 too....

"I couldn't give its name because I don't know foreign rifles." -- Roger D. Craig; March 1968

Complete 1968 interview with Roger Craig:

https://app.box.com/s/n0hkvccua7iczh71h5bp

[Bill Brown]

17 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Roger Craig told Free Press that Tippit was killed about 1:40, not 1:45 as you stated. People make mistakes recalling times.

Like I said, I was going by memory.  Is there somehow a difference in your mind between 1:40 and 1:45?  My point remains the same.  Craig was telling porky pies.

[Henry Frost]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

"I couldn't give its name because I don't know foreign rifles." -- Roger D. Craig;

Here's that part of that article:

FP: Free Press
RC: Roger Craig
PJ: Penn Jones

 

"I don't know who found it" but it must be true because another reporter told me about it, in person.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Henry Frost

[Denis Morissette]

No mention of the Mauser stamp in his manuscript.

[Ron Bulman]

If you read the rest of the 1:40 bit about Craig in the L.A. Press article he corrects himself immediately.  "Oh, that's right, the broadcast was put out shortly after 1:15 on Tippit's killer . . ."  Oswald's description came out about around 1:40 on the DPD radios, maybe 1:50 if I remember right.  Anyone here ever confused timing on a past event, like the killing of a president. 

FP: Do you know what time he was killed? RC: It was about 1:90- PJ: No, I think It was a little before 1:15, RC: Wailt? PJ: Yes. Bill Alexander— RC: Oh, that's right. The broadcast was put out shortly al-terli15 on Tippit's killer, and it had not been put out yet on Os-wald as the assassin of President Kennedy.

as a little before 1:15, RC: Wailt? PJ: Yes. Bill Alexander— RC: Oh, that's right. The broadcast was put out shortly al-terli15 on Tippit's killer, and it had not been put out yet on as the assassin of President Kennedy. Kennedy. 

[Denis Morissette]

13 hours ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

What still bothers me is the 1963 - 1967 period.

As it seems (and in some twisted retrospect), one could almost say the WC did him a favor in allegedly altering his statements...

 

 

Can you prove his testimony was altered? Are you accusing the person in charge of writing down his testimony of lying?

[Guest]

I wrote in some twisted retrospect and moreover I wrote allegedly altering his statements.   He wrote it was altered and he wrote he was pissed off by that.   If the WC statement had shown what he alledgedly said, he would have gotten in trouble already then, so he actually was better off (and should not have been pissed off), well... for a couple of years. 

So I'm NOT accusing anyone......

 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Denis Morissette]

Just three more claims made by Craig. Anyone of you believe them?

1) The Tall Tramp met Craig when he came out of a radio interview in L.A.

2) The cab drive who drove Oswald to his place was given a blank statement by the DPD. He signed it, and it was filled out by the DPD. Craig said, "I know it because I was there!"

3) He claimed he's in a photograph taken of the Homicide Bureau. But it turned out it is NOT him.

For more details on these claims, see my blog.

https://jfkassassinationfiles.wordpress.com/2018/03/29/roger-craig/