Historic Truth

[Gil Jesus]

On 9/2/2022 at 10:43 AM, Bill Brown said:

WITH MALICE (2013 Edition, Dale Myers, pg. 28)

 

"Lee Harvey Oswald murdered Officer J.D. Tippit. There can no longer be any doubt about it. The truth of that statement will unfold in the pages that follow. In many ways, this is the investigative file that was never completed.

 

Naturally, Oswald's malicious desperation in the wake of the Kennedy assassination brings that crime into clearer focus. For some, the precise nature of Oswald's participation in the President's murder remains open to debate. But, no matter what role he played, Oswald's guilt in the Tippit shooting must be hereafter considered a historic truth."

 

I don't consider what any author publishes as "historic proof".

 

[Ron Ege]

But Gil - gee, LHO's wallet was found at the scene.

Of course, no matter that it was one of three or four that he'd apparently been using, depending on what day it was, I would guess.

I'm just wondering if when it came to wallets, like holsters - Lee was also a collector. 

[Joe Bauer]

On 9/3/2022 at 12:10 AM, David Von Pein said:

"Finally found someone who agrees..." ??

Yeah, right, Allen. There's only several million people who believe the SBT is true. And yet you seem to think that I'm in a minority of one. Much the same way Jim DiEugenio holds the wacky belief that Vince Bugliosi's book has been endorsed by just two people in the whole world---myself and Tom Hanks:

"The only person who believed it ['Reclaiming History'] was Tom Hanks." -- James DiEugenio [4/15/2010]

Tom Hanks gave us the brilliant "real truth" 2013 JFK film "Parkland" to counter Oliver Stone's traitorous piece of fiction "JFK."  

Hanks financed and co-produced along with Bill Paxton.

Based on Bugliosi's classic book "4 Days In November: The Assassination Of John F. Kennedy" the film was a big hit.

Film production cost were $10 million and combined ticket sales ( both domestic and foreign ) were an astounding $1.5 million!

The film played big in Paducah, Kentucky where it actually drew more paying customers in it's three day run than two other block buster films out at the same time..."Jackass Presents : Bad Grandpa" and "Big Ass Spider !"

Hank's son Colin was given a choice role of Dr. Malcolm O. Perry and although he nor any other actors in "Parkland" received no nominations for major film performance awards, one ( Brett Stimely) did receive honorable mention as the corpse of JFK.

I actually talked my film buff wife into seeing the film with me at a small independent 5 screen theater here that went bankrupt soon after and we did so just before it was pulled after it's second day.

She only went because I begged her.

We had choice seats as there was only one other person in attendance.

A heavy set, swarthy, bearded, lots of body hair fellow whose big belly protruded out from his yellow under arm stained T-shirt.

After 20 minutes my wife pleaded with me to let her leave. I asked her to stay just another half hour.

The swarthy stinky fellow patron fell asleep soon thereafter and even though he was 10 rows away from us ( small theater ) his snoring was so incredibly loud it made it hard to hear the film's dialogue the rest of the time.

Finally I gave into my wife's desperate pleas and she left. Agreeing to pick me up outside the theater later.

After leaving the theater and the still loud snoring fellow inside my final assessment of the film was simply a pondering as to what Tom Hanks must have been thinking when he greenlighted, financed and produced this Oliver Stone's "JFK" countering Bugliosi book inspired embarrassment.

And apparently the "millions" of Americans DVP cites as believers in the "single bullet" theory were not so passionate in their more patriotic view to the degree of actually paying money to see a real truth portraying JFK film versus Oliver Stone's seditious commie crap one... a worldwide blockbuster in ticket sales.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Guest]

I don't know what to think of this on Wiki, so I'm getting to movie (shame on me for not having seen it yet) :

"Historian Peter Ling awarded Parkland four out of five stars for enjoyment and three stars for historical accuracy. Reviewing the film, he praised its attempt to "capture the desperate efforts made to save Kennedy in the operating room." He told historyextra, "It shows that the head nurse, Doris Nelson (played by Marcia Gay Harden), had to take a piece of JFK's skull and some brain tissue from Mrs Kennedy [Jackie picked up a piece of her husband's skull at the scene], and that junior doctor, Jim Carrico (played by Zac Efron), had to be told to stop the frenetic but fruitless cardiac massage at one o'clock, when the team declared JFK dead" (22)

 

(22) "Historian at the Movies: Parkland reviewed". historyextra.com. Archived from the original on January 15, 2018. Retrieved November 27, 2013.

[Joe Bauer]

7 minutes ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

I don't know what to think of this on Wiki, so I'm getting to movie (shame on me for not having seen it yet) :

"Historian Peter Ling awarded Parkland four out of five stars for enjoyment and three stars for historical accuracy. Reviewing the film, he praised its attempt to "capture the desperate efforts made to save Kennedy in the operating room." He told historyextra, "It shows that the head nurse, Doris Nelson (played by Marcia Gay Harden), had to take a piece of JFK's skull and some brain tissue from Mrs Kennedy [Jackie picked up a piece of her husband's skull at the scene], and that junior doctor, Jim Carrico (played by Zac Efron), had to be told to stop the frenetic but fruitless cardiac massage at one o'clock, when the team declared JFK dead" (22)

 

(22) "Historian at the Movies: Parkland reviewed". historyextra.com. Archived from the original on January 15, 2018. Retrieved November 27, 2013.

JPC,  I highly recommend you see "Parkland" if you can find it.

There is not one mention of the "single bullet" in the film though.

It was just a one hour and a half long recounting of the shock, panic and depression felt by the Parkland hospital staff attending to the mortally wounded JFK as well as the crying grief of Abraham Zapruder, who despite his grief sold his JFK murder film to "Life" magazine right away for a sum equivalent to 1.5 million in today's dollars.

Oddly, anyone else who had film and still pictures of the incident asking for monetary compensation for their films and pics were all labelled as money grubbing lowlifes for doing so.

But instant huge payment receiving Zapruder never was?

[Pat Speer]

20 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Yes. Check the Fackler Bullet. (Let me guess....more fakery, right Pat?)

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/06/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1140.html

PS: Fackler's bullet proved that a bullet traveling at a reduced velocity would not be damaged. Duh. But Olivier's tests suggested that the bullet striking Connally would have been traveling at a much greater velocity. Fackler pulled a switcheroo. Instead of demonstrating what he needed to demonstrate, he demonstrated something else, and claimed it supported the SBT. 

Yes. Definitely. (And also see my NEXT POST.)

PS: This was supposed to show that the wounds gave the appearance of a back entrance and throat exit. You know damn well that those who saw the throat exit unanimously described it as a small hole, and that what is shown in this photo is the throat after a tracheotomy. The throat hole as described by those who actually saw it did not give the appearance of an exit, and was perceived as being an entrance.

20 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Yes. Connally's back wound was somewhat "elliptical", according to one of Connally's surgeons, Dr. Robert Shaw:

"The wound of entrance...was about a centimeter and a half in its greatest diameter, roughly elliptical in shape." -- Dr. Robert R. Shaw [WC Volume 4, Pgs. 107-108]

PS: You avoid of course that the clothing did not suggest that a bullet was tumbling, and that the size of the wound was consistent with the proportions of JFK's wounds, which you claim were not tumbling. Ergo, 2 + 2 = 4. There is no reason to believe the bullet striking Connally was tumbling. 

 

I'd say yes. But keep in mind that in this instance we're discussing here (the "SBT"), the "high-velocity bullet" hit no bones at all inside JFK's body. The bullet only did "bony" damage to John Connally's body---and that damage was sustained only after the bullet had been slowed significantly by passing through Kennedy's body. And a slowed-down bullet (which CE399 most certainly was once it got to John Connally) is, of course, going to do much less damage to the things it then hits.

PS: You simply repeat the myth, as proof of the myth. The point is that the trajectory suggested by the back wound and throat wound runs right through bone. This point was first made by John Nichols and has never been countered. And Olivier's tests disproved your central thought--that a bullet passing only through JFK's flesh would slow to the point it would be mostly undamaged upon striking Connally's rib and wrist. The bullets used to recreate Connally's wrist wound were not undamaged, but badly mutilated. 

 

Yes. Most definitely. And I can't understand why you think otherwise.

PS: By posting Myers' cartoon as proof JFK and JBC were in alignment, you are as much as throwing up your hands and admitting defeat. It's like you posted those faked photos of fairies made by little girls circa WWI as proof of fairies. Uh, no. The Z-film proves JFK raised up off the side of the limo and turned to his left before the point depicted above. Myers fudged his animation to make the men line up. 

Actually, it ALL "adds up". It adds up to the only logical and sensible conclusion that a person can reach---and that conclusion is: The Single-Bullet Theory is true.

PS: Your saying it is the only logical conclusion is embarrassing, IMO. It's like you've concluded the earth is flat because a marble stays still when you put it on the ground.

And the SBT conclusion becomes even more crystalized in reality after asking yourself the #1 key question that must be asked relating to John F. Kennedy's wounds: Why were no bullets found in JFK's body? Where did the bullet(s) go?

PS: I don't see this as relevant. That's not how a crime scene works..."Well, we only found one bullet so there must have been one bullet..." It's not remotely unusual for bullets to never be found. In this case, where the shooting took place outside and over some distance, it would not be even slightly surprising. 

Nonsense. Since the SBT was so obviously the truth of the matter, there was no need to tell any lies about it.

PS: Vomits in mouth. My website is filled with numerous documented lies about the SBT. So your circular reasoning falls flat. 

 

And at what point will conspiracy theorists begin to realize that their anti-SBT theories are far more ludicrous, unsupportable, and untenable than is the single-bullet conclusion endorsed by both the Warren Commission and the HSCA?

PS: If a theory fails on numerous levels, it is time to put together a new theory, not argue with those who have exposed its weaknesses, and claim they must find something the true believers can live with. The reality is that true believers rarely let go of their theories when exposed to its weaknesses, and that the true test is whether or not newbies embrace the old theory or not. On this issue your side has lost. The people on these forums arguing for the bootiful SBT are the same people from 10-15 years ago, while the young people taking an interest in the case dismiss it as garbage. 

Yikes indeed!

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Pat Speer

[James DiEugenio]

Fackler was discredited long ago.

https://ia801305.us.archive.org/9/items/nsia-CranorMillicent/nsia-CranorMillicent/Cranor Millicent 10_text.pdf

I really do not understand this BS chase myself.  Well, yes I do.

As Redlich said, without the SBT, you have two assassins.

Well, does not that tell you right there that the SBT was simply a polemical necessity which never existed in reality?  I mean when you cannot prove that CE 399 was found on the correct gurney, and when Specter cuts Wright, Sibert and O'Neill out of the record, and he does not publish Burkley's death certificate, what does that tell you? And go ahead and see if Specter asked any of the pathologists why they did not dissect Kennedy's back wound.  Tell me where that exchange is when you find it.

When an experienced prosecutor like Specter, leaves a trail this incriminating behind--one of avoidance so rigorous that it becomes alchemy--then this becomes "consciousness of guilt."  In Wecht's book, he details a vignette worth the sales price.  He and Arlen were coming down an elevator after a debate.  There was silence. After which, Wecht turned to Specter and said something like: You don't really believe that stuff do you? 

Arlen didn't reply.

Edited September 4, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[David Von Pein]

7 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Myers fudged his animation to make the men line up. 

Bulls**t. Dale Myers' computer model is locked in to the Zapruder Film itself.

https://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/kframe.htm

But CTers just can't help calling Myers a big fat li@r.

(Vomits in mouth.)

Edited September 5, 2022 by David Von Pein

[James DiEugenio]

With the record adduced above concerning Specter, I think its a good reference to the title of Meagher's book.

Some people think she exaggerated by saying the Commission were accessories after the fact.

In the case of Specter, for example, I think she was correct.

When you take the information that Specter knowingly hid or misrepresented--e.g. the two FBI agents--you can make the case that what he did aided the cover up.  And that does not even include what he cooperated on with Rydberg.  I mean that Ryberg episode was an utter disgrace. And Rydberg ended up admitting it was a complete mirage.

Right here, with Dale M trying to put his finger in the dike, I mean that is just unconscionable I think.  Especially with that Rube Goldberg computer contraption he put together out of smoke and mirrors.

[Pat Speer]

6 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Bulls**t. Dale Myers' computer model is locked in to the Zapruder Film itself.

https://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/kframe.htm

But CTers just can't help calling Myers a big fat li@r.

(Vomits in mouth.)

 

5 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

With the record adduced above concerning Specter, I think its a good reference to the title of Meagher's book.

Some people think she exaggerated by saying the Commission were accessories after the fact.

In the case of Specter, for example, I think she was correct.

When you take the information that Specter knowingly hid or misrepresented--e.g. the two FBI agents--you can make the case that what he did aided the cover up.  And that does not even include what he cooperated on with Rydberg.  I mean that Ryberg episode was an utter disgrace. And Rydberg ended up admitting it was a complete mirage.

Right here, with Dale M trying to put his finger in the dike, I mean that is just unconscionable I think.  Especially with that Rube Goldberg computer contraption he put together out of smoke and mirrors.

I'm not "a CTer," David, I'm Pat, and I have a heckuva lot more credibility than Myers on these matters. So quit playing to the imaginary LN audience out there cheering you on for "sticking it to the CTs" or whatever you think you're doing.

The fact of the matter is this... While Myers claimed his cartoon was locked in or whatever, he actually admitted he locked in every 7th frame, if I recall, and that he simply filled in, as an animator, the images in between. When one actually looks at his cartoon one spots a number of mistakes. Among these is that he portrayed JFK hanging over the side of the limo circa Z-224, when the Z-film is clear that he moved from this position as he went behind the sign in the film. That JFK jerked leftward at this time was noted by the HSCA photography panel, long before I ever started studying this case. So, no, it's not some CT myth. Another indisputable fact is that Myers initial acknowledged that the location of JFK's back wound in his animation was established via rear projection from Connally's armpit wound back to the SN. Well, by the time he'd sold his animation to ABC, he'd taken to claiming the back wound location on JFK in his animation came from studying the autopsy photos, and precise measurements. This was not true. As demonstrated below...

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Pat Speer

[David Von Pein]

17 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

I'm not "a CTer," David, I'm Pat, and I have a heckuva lot more credibility than Myers on these matters.

Oh really?! Says you.

Forgive me, Pat, if I heartily disagree with your bold statement above.

Edited September 5, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Guest]

On 9/4/2022 at 7:28 PM, Joe Bauer said:

JPC,  I highly recommend you see "Parkland" if you can find it.

There is not one mention of the "single bullet" in the film though.

It was just a one hour and a half long recounting of the shock, panic and depression felt by the Parkland hospital staff attending to the mortally wounded JFK as well as the crying grief of Abraham Zapruder, who despite his grief sold his JFK murder film to "Life" magazine right away for a sum equivalent to 1.5 million in today's dollars.

Oddly, anyone else who had film and still pictures of the incident asking for monetary compensation for their films and pics were all labelled as money grubbing lowlifes for doing so.

But instant huge payment receiving Zapruder never was?

I have just seen the movie.  Found a 2nd hand DVD for sale last week for 2 euro... 😃😃 

I really enjoyed watching it, thanks for recommending it !