Historic Truth

[Charles Blackmon]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

 

But I have a problem with a guy who posts stuff not to be in any way informational, but just to be an in your face provocateur. And he does that consistently.

I mean, isn't that what you expect from somebody who really has nothing to offer.

[Bill Brown]

13 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Dale Myers got on TV and said that his cartoon of Kennedy and Connally converted Specter's Single Bullet Theory into the Single Bullet Fact.

That cartoon has been demolished by Speer, Orr, Cranor, Harris and Mantik.

He then used Jack Tatum for his prime witness in the Tippit shooting.  Tatum was later expsoed as a faker. (https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/why-officer-tippit-stopped-his-killer) 

I have never complained about anyone posting here, not even DVP at his worst.  (The one time I did complain about DVP was not over what he wrote but what he was doing with my replies to him.)

But I have a problem with a guy who posts stuff not to be in any way informational, but just to be an in your face provocateur. And he does that consistently.

 

Then please fell free to continue to ignore my posts, like you've done for the past few weeks.

 

Thankfully, you don't set the rules around here.

Bill cut out the snark. Members can be offended by such comments and characterisation of fwllow members.

Be aware you have already come to the admins attention before.

Admin

 

[Cory Santos]

7 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

I wasn't talking about the number of people who believe in a conspiracy, Cory. I was only talking about the SBT. And the CTer anti-SBT versions of the shooting are---unquestionably---an embarrassment. That's a fact.

What's your version of the shooting that replaces the SBT, Cory? Can you avoid the embarrassing and absurd bullet-vanishing scenarios of your predecessors?

Good luck.

I don’t need to go to sbt or alternatives theories to reach a conclusion that the assassination was a conspiracy.   But, a theory based on half facts really is just a theory.   Not a fact.  Having said that, over his morning coffee Cliff asked me to remind you that:

why — given JFK’s shallow wound right of T3 — is ce399 an issue since no 6.5mm Full Metal Jacket ever left a shallow wound in soft tissue?

Then Cliff and I started arguing about Biden so I went back inside to exercise in my gym.   He sends you cuddles btw but would like your explanation to the obvious above issue which sbt supporters ignore.  And no I don’t think Goat shooting experiments from the 1890s, or whenever in antiquity, will be sufficient to make it a fact.  

[Pat Speer]

8 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

I wasn't talking about the number of people who believe in a conspiracy, Cory. I was only talking about the SBT. And the CTer anti-SBT versions of the shooting are---unquestionably---an embarrassment. That's a fact.

What's your version of the shooting that replaces the SBT, Cory? Can you avoid the embarrassing and absurd bullet-vanishing scenarios of your predecessors?

Good luck.

I've said it before, David. The SBT is toast. If people want to come up with another LN scenario that works, fine. Go for it. But any LN scenario based on the SBT is doomed to fail. It's "the moon-landing was performed in a studio" or "the twin towers were brought down by lasers" kind of stuff. Junk science. Gussied up to look like science. 

But let's break it down...

Does CE 399 give the physical appearance of a bullet that had done what it was purported to do? No.

Did Kennedy's body give the physical appearance of a bullet's having traveled from his back wound to his throat wound? No.

Did Connally's clothing and back wound give the appearance of him being struck by a tumbling bullet? No. 

Did the studies performed for the WC indicate that the damage to the bodies of Kennedy and Connally were consistent with the damage one would expect from a high velocity bullet? No.

Were the locations of JFK's and JBC's wounds in line with a shot from the sniper's nest at the time the WC (or HSCA, or Myers) believed the SBT shot was fired? No. 

There's probably a bunch more. None of it adds up. And those tasked with making it add up told numerous lies. 

At what point do you say "Yikes! There's reason to doubt!" 

 

 

[Bill Brown]

12 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

I've said it before, David. The SBT is toast. If people want to come up with another LN scenario that works, fine. Go for it. But any LN scenario based on the SBT is doomed to fail. It's "the moon-landing was performed in a studio" or "the twin towers were brought down by lasers" kind of stuff. Junk science. Gussied up to look like science. 

But let's break it down...

Does CE 399 give the physical appearance of a bullet that had done what it was purported to do? No.

Did Kennedy's body give the physical appearance of a bullet's having traveled from his back wound to his throat wound? No.

Did Connally's clothing and back wound give the appearance of him being struck by a tumbling bullet? No. 

Did the studies performed for the WC indicate that the damage to the bodies of Kennedy and Connally were consistent with the damage one would expect from a high velocity bullet? No.

Were the locations of JFK's and JBC's wounds in line with a shot from the sniper's nest at the time the WC (or HSCA, or Myers) believed the SBT shot was fired? No. 

There's probably a bunch more. None of it adds up. And those tasked with making it add up told numerous lies. 

At what point do you say "Yikes! There's reason to doubt!" 

 

 

 

So Kennedy and Connally react at the same split second in time...

 

So the wounds of the two men line up in so similar a way that they could be mistaken for having been caused by just one bullet...

 

Yet they were hit by different bullets.  No.  Ain't buying that nonsense.

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

What I've noticed from you Bill, Is that you post with little snippets. So it's apt to become this perpetual scrolling conversation. Why don't you highlight a few of Myers points and make your arguments for them in some depth? Or take one point you feel is major and try to drive it home?

I thought we were going to confine this to the Tippit murder but Ok, now that we're not.

Obviously there's a logical answer to this question. Can anyone please answer. Why wouldn't it now be easy  to verify if the bullet went though 2 bodies simply  through dna testing? After all, they are able to test the dna of  dinosaurs?

Edited September 3, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Gerry Down]

12 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

What I've noticed from you Bill, Is that you post with little snippets. So it's apt to become this perpetual scrolling conversation. Why don't you highlight a few of Myers points and make your arguments for them in some depth? Or take one point you feel is major and try to drive it home?

I thought we were going to confine this to the Tippit murder but Ok, now that we're not.

Obviously there's a logical answer to this question. Can anyone please answer. Why wouldn't it now be easy  to verify if the bullet went though 2 bodies simply  through dna testing? After all, they are able to test the dna of  dinosaurs?

They tested ce399 (or it might have been the two fragments found in the front seat) for DNA in 2000. They found the DNA to be too degraded to be of any use.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Gerry Down

[Kirk Gallaway]

That's what I thought. Thanks Gerry

[James DiEugenio]

For Myers to have done what he did without ever referring to either the provenance of CE 399 or the condition of the bullet? Or Dr. Dolce?

Or the size of the back wound vs the size of the throat wound? And for him to make JFK into a hunchback in order to camouflage what the true location of the back wound was? And then as both Speer and Harris have pointed out, the hijinks Myers did with the positioning of JBC and JFK in the car and the relative size of both men?

A disgrace.

Henry Lee is probably the best man in America at reconstructions.  He is certified in many states and a few countries.  He told us for our film that you cannot do a trajectory analysis in this case.  The simple reason being that neither of JFK's wounds were dissected. Now, did Dale M ever bring this fact up on the show? Did he tell us what happened with Dr. Finck in New Orleans as to why there was no dissection?  Did he bring in any kind of forensic expert to explain why he was doing it anyway--in spite of that fact? Not that I can recall.  And then, where are Dale's credentials in crime scene reconstruction?  Does he have any?  And if he does not, then why on earth should anyone trust him?  

The reason he did it is the same reason Bill Brown does what he does. Gus Russo was the lead reporter for Jennings.  Russo got his pal on in order to deliver a deliberate provocation to the critics.  The problem is, Dale left all of the above out, and then turned his simulation into a low camp circus in order to do it.  Never even bringing up the problem that CE 399 was likely found on the wrong gurney.

But that didn't matter to Dale and Gus. (Although ABC took Gus' name off the show when I pointed out he had said his book was nominated for a Pulitzer when it wasn't.)   And Tom is right about Dale's math for the acoustics.  He hid it for a very long time.  And when it was finally revealed it did not compute as he said it did.

But this is the kind of guy Bill Brown trusts for "historic truth".  🤮

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said:

 

So Kennedy and Connally react at the same split second in time...

 

So the wounds of the two men line up in so similar a way that they could be mistaken for having been caused by just one bullet...

 

Yet they were hit by different bullets.  No.  Ain't buying that nonsense.

 

It's called forensic science. Not "It look like it to me!" If someone fired a burst of bullets into a crowd, a number of the victims would react around the same time and be in close alignment with the shooter's location. But they would in fact be shot by different bullets. The nose of CE 399 was unblemished. It may have caused Kennedy's back wound, if fired at a low velocity. And it may have caused Connally's wrist and leg wounds, if fired at a low velocity. But the tests performed for the WC raise strong doubt about its inflicting the wounds it was purported to have made on both men. (Sturdivan for one realized this and went back and fabricated some new velocities for his book.)

I mean, think about it...

Dr. Humes testified that he could find no passage between the back wound (which he measured at 14 cm below the EOP) and throat wound... This was never countered.

And Dr. Wecht testified that the nearly non-existent damage to the bullet was inconsistent with the wounds it was purported to have caused. (Although this was countered by some hypotheticals etc...no doctor has ever found or presented a similar instance where a nearly unblemished bullet was purported to have caused such damage...)

Outside of wanting to believe in the SBT, there is little or no reason to believe in it...

LNs would be better off developing non-SBT scenarios, IMO. 

 

[Bill Brown]

13 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

It's called forensic science. Not "It look like it to me!" If someone fired a burst of bullets into a crowd, a number of the victims would react around the same time and be in close alignment with the shooter's location. But they would in fact be shot by different bullets. The nose of CE 399 was unblemished. It may have caused Kennedy's back wound, if fired at a low velocity. And it may have caused Connally's wrist and leg wounds, if fired at a low velocity. But the tests performed for the WC raise strong doubt about its inflicting the wounds it was purported to have made on both men. (Sturdivan for one realized this and went back and fabricated some new velocities for his book.)

I mean, think about it...

Dr. Humes testified that he could find no passage between the back wound (which he measured at 14 cm below the EOP) and throat wound... This was never countered.

And Dr. Wecht testified that the nearly non-existent damage to the bullet was inconsistent with the wounds it was purported to have caused. (Although this was countered by some hypotheticals etc...no doctor has ever found or presented a similar instance where a nearly unblemished bullet was purported to have caused such damage...)

Outside of wanting to believe in the SBT, there is little or no reason to believe in it...

LNs would be better off developing non-SBT scenarios, IMO. 

 

 

You're comparing a burst of bullets being fired into a crowd of people (and therefore, people reacting at the same time)... to.... one bullet at a time being fired into a car.  Unless you're saying that a burst of bullets were fired into the limo in much the same way a burst of bullets were fired into a crowd.

 

[Pat Speer]

2 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

 

You're comparing a burst of bullets being fired into a crowd of people (and therefore, people reacting at the same time)... to.... one bullet at a time being fired into a car.  Unless you're saying that a burst of bullets were fired into the limo in much the same way a burst of bullets were fired into a crowd.

 

We don't know there was only one bullet fired into the car at that time. There could have been two rifles in sync, or one semi-auto firing a two shot burst. The WC re-enactment photos prove that when viewed from the sniper's nest Connally's right armpit was only inches away from the back of Kennedy's head. Someone aiming for his head  could have missed and hit Connally. 

[James DiEugenio]

In the early versions of Dale M.'s cartoon he actually said he could see JBC and JFK jumping in unison. No joke.

Dave Mantik scored him on this.  Dave said how could anyone say this as they were both behind the sign at the time.

Dale M said he phoned Dave on this.  I asked Dave if such a thing happened.  He said no, not even a message.

BTW, in Thompson's Six Seconds in Dallas, Connally viewed the Z film  several times and said they were not hit at the same time. In fact, JBC, until the day he died, said they were not hit by the same bullet. As Joe McBride notes in his book, Into the Nightmare, reporter Doug Thompson asked JBC about this.  The governor said he never believed the Warren Report for five seconds.

I do not see how it gets any worse than that for the other side. 

This is just silly.  Only Brown could argue this rubbish. Which is why I have him on ignore.  But I have to read this nonsense when someone reposts it.  

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Gil Jesus]

28 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

In the early versions of Dale M.'s cartoon he actually said he could see JBC and JFK jumping in unison. No joke.

Dave Mantik scored him on this.  Dave said how could anyone say this as they were both behind the sign at the time.

Dale M said he phoned Dave on this.  I asked Dave if such a thing happened.  He said no, not even a message.

BTW, in Thompson's Six Seconds in Dallas, Connally viewed the Z film  several times and said they were not hit at the same time. In fact, JBC, until the day he died, said they were not hit by the same bullet. As Joe McBride notes in his book, Into the Nightmare, reporter Doug Thompson asked JBC about this.  The governor said he never believed the Warren Report for five seconds.

I do not see how it gets any worse than that for the other side. 

This is just silly.  Only Brown could argue this rubbish. Which is why I have him on ignore.  But I have to read this nonsense when someone reposts it.  

 

Folks can hear it from the horse's mouth: Dr. Joseph Dolce ( pronounced Dole-chay) on CE 399 causing all of the non-fatal wounds :

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/dolce.mp4

Summary by Dr. Cyril Wecht:

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/wecht_magic-bullet.mp4

Edited September 3, 2022 by Gil Jesus

[Bill Brown]

50 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

In the early versions of Dale M.'s cartoon he actually said he could see JBC and JFK jumping in unison. No joke.

Dave Mantik scored him on this.  Dave said how could anyone say this as they were both behind the sign at the time.

Dale M said he phoned Dave on this.  I asked Dave if such a thing happened.  He said no, not even a message.

BTW, in Thompson's Six Seconds in Dallas, Connally viewed the Z film  several times and said they were not hit at the same time. In fact, JBC, until the day he died, said they were not hit by the same bullet. As Joe McBride notes in his book, Into the Nightmare, reporter Doug Thompson asked JBC about this.  The governor said he never believed the Warren Report for five seconds.

I do not see how it gets any worse than that for the other side. 

This is just silly.  Only Brown could argue this rubbish. Which is why I have him on ignore.  But I have to read this nonsense when someone reposts it.  

 

 

Connally knew he was not hit by the first shot.

 

Connally assumed (incorrectly) that the President was hit by the first shot.

 

Therefore, Connally believed he and the President were hit by separate shots.

 

The Zapruder film clearly shows Connally was incorrect about that.