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What kind of a rifle shot shakes a 7-story building ?


Gil Jesus

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2 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

The devil is in the details.

I can't imagine resting a rifle against my shoulder that can shake a 7-story building hard enough to dislodge plaster from a ceiling.

But, that's me.

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25 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

I can't imagine resting a rifle against my shoulder that can shake a 7-story building hard enough to dislodge plaster from a ceiling.

But, that's me.

Yes not disputing that. Just believe he couldn't/wouldn't go further into details on what he saw during his time there. 

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I have not yet found the ballistics for the WCC ammo allegedly used in the JFK assassination. But I did find statistics for the Norma cartridges:

"The Norma factory load for the 6.5x52 is loaded with a 156 grain Alaska bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2428 fps and muzzle energy of 2043 ft. lbs. At 200 yards the figures are 1926 fps and 1286 ft. lbs." -- from 6.5x52 Carcano (chuckhawks.com)

Muzzle energy is 2043 ft lbs.

For comparison purposes, a 1-ounce 12 gauge Foster rifled shotgun slug has a muzzle energy of 2363 ft. lbs.

A 30.06 with a 150-gr bullet has a muzzle energy of 2820 ft. lbs., while one with a 220-gr bullet can achieve a muzzle energy of 3036 ft lb. (.30-06 Springfield - Wikipedia)

I honestly don't believe ANY of these, fired with the end of the barrel OUTSIDE the window of the TSBD, would shake the whole building.

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21 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

I have not yet found the ballistics for the WCC ammo allegedly used in the JFK assassination. But I did find statistics for the Norma cartridges:

"The Norma factory load for the 6.5x52 is loaded with a 156 grain Alaska bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2428 fps and muzzle energy of 2043 ft. lbs. At 200 yards the figures are 1926 fps and 1286 ft. lbs." -- from 6.5x52 Carcano (chuckhawks.com)

Muzzle energy is 2043 ft lbs.

For comparison purposes, a 1-ounce 12 gauge Foster rifled shotgun slug has a muzzle energy of 2363 ft. lbs.

A 30.06 with a 150-gr bullet has a muzzle energy of 2820 ft. lbs., while one with a 220-gr bullet can achieve a muzzle energy of 3036 ft lb. (.30-06 Springfield - Wikipedia)

I honestly don't believe ANY of these, fired with the end of the barrel OUTSIDE the window of the TSBD, would shake the whole building.

A rifle couldn't shake a brick building, but its muzzle blast could rattle some windows. 

Still, it's worth pondering just where the "debris" on Bonnie Ray's head came from. As the sound would not have loosened "cement" from the ceiling, it follows that the ceiling must have had some water damage or such so that a loud vibration might shake some loose. Are there any photos of this ceiling? 

If I recall correctly, moreover, the WC re-enacted someone using the bolt up on the sixth to verify that this could be heard on the fifth. But I don't believe they live-fired from the sixth to see if this would shake cement loose on the fifth. 

Could the whole cement in the hair story be a fabrication designed to sell that the shooter fired from above? 

Edited by Pat Speer
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13 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

A rifle couldn't shake a brick building, but its muzzle blast could rattle some windows. 

Still, it's worth pondering just where the "debris" on Bonnie Ray's head came from. As the sound would not have loosened "cement" from the ceiling, it follows that the ceiling must have had some water damage or such so that a loud vibration might shake some loose. Are there any photos of this ceiling? 

If I recall correctly, moreover, the WC re-enacted someone using the bolt up on the sixth to verify that this could be heard on the fifth. But I don't believe they live-fired from the sixth to see if this would shake cement loose on the fifth. 

Could the whole cement in the hair story be a fabrication designed to sell that the shooter fired from above? 

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24196-dust-on-the-shirt/

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52 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

A rifle couldn't shake a brick building, but its muzzle blast could rattle some windows. 

Still, it's worth pondering just where the "debris" on Bonnie Ray's head came from. As the sound would not have loosened "cement" from the ceiling, it follows that the ceiling must have had some water damage or such so that a loud vibration might shake some loose. Are there any photos of this ceiling? 

If I recall correctly, moreover, the WC re-enacted someone using the bolt up on the sixth to verify that this could be heard on the fifth. But I don't believe they live-fired from the sixth to see if this would shake cement loose on the fifth. 

Could the whole cement in the hair story be a fabrication designed to sell that the shooter fired from above? 

Gee Pat, ya think?

From the first, always seemed contrived; never bought it, still don't.

Possible, of course.

And also, especially after the first shot, the alleged hearing of the shells dropping on the floor above.  Even more disbelieving.  That ringing in your ears would surely obviate that - as well as the immediate shock of the surprise element of rifle shots occurring just above your head.

Nigh onto impossible, IMO.

 

 

Edited by Ron Ege
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On 10/31/2022 at 2:16 PM, Mark Knight said:

I have not yet found the ballistics for the WCC ammo allegedly used in the JFK assassination. But I did find statistics for the Norma cartridges:

"The Norma factory load for the 6.5x52 is loaded with a 156 grain Alaska bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2428 fps and muzzle energy of 2043 ft. lbs. At 200 yards the figures are 1926 fps and 1286 ft. lbs." -- from 6.5x52 Carcano (chuckhawks.com)

Muzzle energy is 2043 ft lbs.

For comparison purposes, a 1-ounce 12 gauge Foster rifled shotgun slug has a muzzle energy of 2363 ft. lbs.

A 30.06 with a 150-gr bullet has a muzzle energy of 2820 ft. lbs., while one with a 220-gr bullet can achieve a muzzle energy of 3036 ft lb. (.30-06 Springfield - Wikipedia)

I honestly don't believe ANY of these, fired with the end of the barrel OUTSIDE the window of the TSBD, would shake the whole building.

But Geneva Hines heard "cannon shots" Four floors below.  Imagine that.

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