Gil Jesus Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/norman_jarman_williams-shook-the-whole-building.mp4 Edited October 31, 2022 by Gil Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cummings Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 The devil is in the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Jesus Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said: The devil is in the details. I can't imagine resting a rifle against my shoulder that can shake a 7-story building hard enough to dislodge plaster from a ceiling. But, that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cummings Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 25 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said: I can't imagine resting a rifle against my shoulder that can shake a 7-story building hard enough to dislodge plaster from a ceiling. But, that's me. Yes not disputing that. Just believe he couldn't/wouldn't go further into details on what he saw during his time there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I have not yet found the ballistics for the WCC ammo allegedly used in the JFK assassination. But I did find statistics for the Norma cartridges: "The Norma factory load for the 6.5x52 is loaded with a 156 grain Alaska bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2428 fps and muzzle energy of 2043 ft. lbs. At 200 yards the figures are 1926 fps and 1286 ft. lbs." -- from 6.5x52 Carcano (chuckhawks.com) Muzzle energy is 2043 ft lbs. For comparison purposes, a 1-ounce 12 gauge Foster rifled shotgun slug has a muzzle energy of 2363 ft. lbs. A 30.06 with a 150-gr bullet has a muzzle energy of 2820 ft. lbs., while one with a 220-gr bullet can achieve a muzzle energy of 3036 ft lb. (.30-06 Springfield - Wikipedia) I honestly don't believe ANY of these, fired with the end of the barrel OUTSIDE the window of the TSBD, would shake the whole building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph McBride Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 It wouldn't be the Mannlicher Carcano entered into what Oswald called the "so-called evidence" against him. That defective rifle was a plant, a prop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, Mark Knight said: I have not yet found the ballistics for the WCC ammo allegedly used in the JFK assassination. But I did find statistics for the Norma cartridges: "The Norma factory load for the 6.5x52 is loaded with a 156 grain Alaska bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2428 fps and muzzle energy of 2043 ft. lbs. At 200 yards the figures are 1926 fps and 1286 ft. lbs." -- from 6.5x52 Carcano (chuckhawks.com) Muzzle energy is 2043 ft lbs. For comparison purposes, a 1-ounce 12 gauge Foster rifled shotgun slug has a muzzle energy of 2363 ft. lbs. A 30.06 with a 150-gr bullet has a muzzle energy of 2820 ft. lbs., while one with a 220-gr bullet can achieve a muzzle energy of 3036 ft lb. (.30-06 Springfield - Wikipedia) I honestly don't believe ANY of these, fired with the end of the barrel OUTSIDE the window of the TSBD, would shake the whole building. A rifle couldn't shake a brick building, but its muzzle blast could rattle some windows. Still, it's worth pondering just where the "debris" on Bonnie Ray's head came from. As the sound would not have loosened "cement" from the ceiling, it follows that the ceiling must have had some water damage or such so that a loud vibration might shake some loose. Are there any photos of this ceiling? If I recall correctly, moreover, the WC re-enacted someone using the bolt up on the sixth to verify that this could be heard on the fifth. But I don't believe they live-fired from the sixth to see if this would shake cement loose on the fifth. Could the whole cement in the hair story be a fabrication designed to sell that the shooter fired from above? Edited November 1, 2022 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Mileto Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 13 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: A rifle couldn't shake a brick building, but its muzzle blast could rattle some windows. Still, it's worth pondering just where the "debris" on Bonnie Ray's head came from. As the sound would not have loosened "cement" from the ceiling, it follows that the ceiling must have had some water damage or such so that a loud vibration might shake some loose. Are there any photos of this ceiling? If I recall correctly, moreover, the WC re-enacted someone using the bolt up on the sixth to verify that this could be heard on the fifth. But I don't believe they live-fired from the sixth to see if this would shake cement loose on the fifth. Could the whole cement in the hair story be a fabrication designed to sell that the shooter fired from above? https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24196-dust-on-the-shirt/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ege Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: A rifle couldn't shake a brick building, but its muzzle blast could rattle some windows. Still, it's worth pondering just where the "debris" on Bonnie Ray's head came from. As the sound would not have loosened "cement" from the ceiling, it follows that the ceiling must have had some water damage or such so that a loud vibration might shake some loose. Are there any photos of this ceiling? If I recall correctly, moreover, the WC re-enacted someone using the bolt up on the sixth to verify that this could be heard on the fifth. But I don't believe they live-fired from the sixth to see if this would shake cement loose on the fifth. Could the whole cement in the hair story be a fabrication designed to sell that the shooter fired from above? Gee Pat, ya think? From the first, always seemed contrived; never bought it, still don't. Possible, of course. And also, especially after the first shot, the alleged hearing of the shells dropping on the floor above. Even more disbelieving. That ringing in your ears would surely obviate that - as well as the immediate shock of the surprise element of rifle shots occurring just above your head. Nigh onto impossible, IMO. Edited November 1, 2022 by Ron Ege Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 On 10/31/2022 at 2:16 PM, Mark Knight said: I have not yet found the ballistics for the WCC ammo allegedly used in the JFK assassination. But I did find statistics for the Norma cartridges: "The Norma factory load for the 6.5x52 is loaded with a 156 grain Alaska bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2428 fps and muzzle energy of 2043 ft. lbs. At 200 yards the figures are 1926 fps and 1286 ft. lbs." -- from 6.5x52 Carcano (chuckhawks.com) Muzzle energy is 2043 ft lbs. For comparison purposes, a 1-ounce 12 gauge Foster rifled shotgun slug has a muzzle energy of 2363 ft. lbs. A 30.06 with a 150-gr bullet has a muzzle energy of 2820 ft. lbs., while one with a 220-gr bullet can achieve a muzzle energy of 3036 ft lb. (.30-06 Springfield - Wikipedia) I honestly don't believe ANY of these, fired with the end of the barrel OUTSIDE the window of the TSBD, would shake the whole building. But Geneva Hines heard "cannon shots" Four floors below. Imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 5 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: But Geneva Hines heard "cannon shots" Four floors below. Imagine that. Yes, Hine was second floor. Does anybody have any photos showing the second floor of the TSBD at or about 12:30 pm 11/22? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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