"Was Oswald an Agent of the CIA?" Where is it?

[David Von Pein]

The answer to the oft-asked question of "Why did JFK's brain weigh so much?" can likely be found right there in the supplementary autopsy report (on Page 544 of the Warren Report).

The very first words of that supplementary report are:

"Following formalin fixation the brain weighs 1500 gms."

So it would seem as if JFK's brain was only weighed AFTER it had been fixed in the liquid (formalin) solution. So that's probably the answer right there---the brain absorbed much of the formalin solution, which added a certain amount of weight to the brain. Why the brain wasn't weighed prior to its being soaked in the watery solution is anyone's guess.

Also see Vincent Bugliosi's book, Reclaiming History (on Pages 282 to 285 of Endnotes), for some interesting information regarding the topic of "Brain Weights". (I've culled some excerpts from those pages below. Click to enlarge....)

Edited February 12, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Charles Blackmon]

1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:

“Diabolical conspirators substituting one brain for another but making the mistake of substituting a largely intact 1540-gram brain for a mangled 1000-gram one” strikes me as too unlikely and illogical to take seriously.

Again I ask: If your patsy was on the sixth floor of the TSBD and a shot from the front would require a Rube Goldberg cover-up of this magnitude, why on earth would your back-up gunman be in front of JFK when you could've easily had multiple back-up gunmen whose trajectories would be plausibly in line with the patsy's??? Again, geniuses at step 1, idiots at step 2.

No more unlikely or illogical than a largely vaporized brain (as seen in the Zapruder film and anecdotally described by witnesses and Parkland personnel) all of a sudden appearing at autopsy as basically intact. This does not pass the smell test, as much or more as anything associated with the assassination.

It doesn't seem totally crazy/absurd that there would be shooters in multiple locations no matter how you try to paint it. Judging by initial news reports and witness reports on 11/22/63 there was strong evidence of a shooter on the knoll. 

[James DiEugenio]

When someone quotes him I have to read this junk.

Uh Lancie,  if this was so stupid, why did the WC and HSCA somehow overlook it  partner?

It was not until the ARRB that anyone noticed.  I would say 35 years to discover is not so dumb.

Whenever one hears that kind of excuse, just tune it out. Because it denotes that the JFK case was actually investigated and the investigators were determined to find the truth.

Which is a fantasy. DId not happen.

Edited January 2, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Guest]

On 1/2/2023 at 2:13 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Uh Lancie,  if this was so stupid, why did the WC and HSCA somehow overlook it  partner?

It was not until the ARRB that anyone noticed.  I would say 35 years to discover is not so dumb.

Bye

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives / President Kennedy's Brain (Various Discussions)

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

As I understand the conspiracy theory, ....

 

There were two conspiracies. First, the one conducted by the CIA to kill Kennedy and have it blamed on the Cubans, Russians, Oswald, and his associates. Second, an on-the-fly plot conducted by the Johnson Administration, Warren Commission, and FBI to cover up the first conspiracy and place the blame solely on Oswald.

The purpose of the second conspiracy was to prevent a potential third world war.

Everything I said here has evidence to support it.

 

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

....the conspirators substituted another brain at the Bethesda autopsy to conceal the fact JFK had been shot from the front.

 

I haven't studied this part of the incident much, but here is my off-hand hypothesis based on what I do know:

The coverup artists wanted control over as much evidence as possible. They stole Kennedy's body, hit the top of his skull with a hammer or something to shatter it, then cut through the scalp, the optic nerves, and spinal cord with a knife, and removed the brain. A substitute brain was introduced at Bethesda Hospital.

They did this so that they could manipulate the medical evidence and make it support the lone gunman story.

Everything I hypothesize here has evidence to support it.

 

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

We all know JFK suffered a massive head wound. Would we not suppose that conspirators sophisticated and diabolical enough to be substituting brains at autopsies would also be sophisticated enough to substitute a brain at least superficially resembling the actual one? Would we not expect someone to have said, “Wait a minute. A third of his brain was gone. A 1540-gram substitute is going to raise red flags all over the place!”

 

As I said, there were two conspiracies and they had opposite goals. This fact renders your question moot.

The coverup conspiracy had no planning. Someone just grabbed an available brain, probably from a cadaver, damaged it, and that's what they put in Kennedy's skull.

 

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

For that matter, why not just have the autopsy state “The brain was too badly damaged and fragmented to making weighing practical”?

 

They were making the coverup as they went along. No planning and very little coordinating, especially early on.

 

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

This is what I mean about the conspirators so often cnveniently being geniuses at those stages where “being geniuses” suits the conspiracy theory and being idiots at those stages where “being idiots” suits the theory.

 

So now you understand how it looked that way. There were two different conspiracies, the first being well planned ("geniuses") and the second being made up ("idiots") as it moved along.

 

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

OK, JFK’s brain weighed more than we laymen might expect. OK, it eventually disappeared. If you’re inclined toward a conspiracy, do with those facts what you will.

I’m satisfied with the explanation at Fred’s blog and the likelihood that RFK himself disposed of the brain.

 

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

“Diabolical conspirators substituting one brain for another but making the mistake of substituting a largely intact 1540-gram brain for a mangled 1000-gram one” strikes me as too unlikely and illogical to take seriously.

 

It's unlikely and illogical only because your conspiracy theory is a terribly poor one. In contrast, it makes perfect sense with my theory.

 

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

Again I ask: If your patsy was on the sixth floor of the TSBD and a shot from the front would require a Rube Goldberg cover-up of this magnitude, why on earth would your back-up gunman be in front of JFK when you could've easily had multiple back-up gunmen whose trajectories would be plausibly in line with the patsy's??? Again, geniuses at step 1, idiots at step 2.

 

Now you know why. The CIA conspirators didn't care if it looked like one shooter or two, or three. They had nothing to do with trying to make it look like Oswald was the sole gunman.

 

[James DiEugenio]

I have rarely seen such a blue smoke and distorting mirror show, ever. 

And I went at it with DVP for almost a year. 

All of this so Lancie Boy can disguise and camouflage these two facts:

Did the Warren Commission make any kind of notice of the failure to section the brain?

If anyone can show me they did, please do.

Yet, our expert criminalist Henry Lee, said it should have been done.

What is the excuse for not doing it?  As Cyril Wecht said, it was to "preserve the specimen."  As Wecht said, preserve the specimen for who and what?  (This section is prime Wecht, it was worth watching the film over.)

Now, again, please read over the Commission volumes and see if Specter asked Humes, Boswell or Finck that question.  Namely, did he ask any of them what they were preserving the brain for?  According to the supplemental, it was right there in front of them.  Why not dissect it?

It would seem an elementary question for a lawyer to ask since its written in the supplementary report.  Was not Specter a big city DA?  Do you think he was familiar with sectioning in a gun shot homicide case?  Duh, yes, Lancie Boy.    So, what has happened to your assistant DA experience? The question is obvious.

But see if Specter asked it.  Let me know when you find it.

When you don't, please do not trouble your sensibilities with the obvious follow up.  As I know you will not. 🤧

Edited January 3, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

Is it conceivable that all of these investigations and their critics "overlooked" the very first line of the Supplementary Autopsy Report - "Following formalin fixation the brain weighs 1500 gms." Hardly. THEY DIDN'T THINK IT WAS AN ISSUE.

 

It WASN'T an issue for them because their fake brain wasn't missing a chunk. It was intact but damaged.

Those who saw the wound early on at Bethesda said there was very little brain or no brain at all. Of course, that was after the brain had been secretly removed and before the fake brain had been inserted.

(By "fake brain," I mean a brain not belonging to JFK.)

 

[James DiEugenio]

Now, in an early eighties TV special, Michael Baden was confronted with the fact that the brain weight was not noted at  the autopsy.

It was  clear from his reaction that this was the first time he realized that rather surprising fact.

Which tells you a lot about both the HSCA inquiry and Baden's guidance of it.

Because the obvious question here is: Why?  It would seem to be not just SOP, but almost mandatory in a case of death by gunshot wound to the brain that this be done.

It was not.  Again, any practicing DA who had handled a big city crime division would have pointedly asked this question.  But Blakey had never done that.  (It seems superfluous to note that both Sprague and Tanenbaum had done so.)

 

So therefore, all these questions about the cover up not being perfect are rendered worse than pointless, they are diversionary.  The questions I asked above go to the heart of the fact that no real inquiry was done by either body. 

It was not until the ARRB and  Doug Horne's memorandum on the brain examinations that this issue was finally forced into the forefront.

Which was 35 years too late!

Sickening.

Especially because:

1.) So many saw a severely damaged brain, some of them included cerebellum, and

2) The baseball sized hole in the back of Kennedy's skull.

Those two should have been like twin flares going up in the night.

Edited January 3, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Now, if you recall Vince Bugliosi's book, you will note how he treated Horne's essay.

It was a true disgrace even for his book.

In fact its one of the things that jumped out at me as something I had to write about in my reply.

Bugliosi completely avoided all the material points that Doug made in that landmark essay. Vince said things like: how could Mantik even talk to such a disturbed person like Doug Horne.

When I read that, i realized how potent the issue had to be.  When an attorney resorts to tactics like that, then man, this thing must be radioactive.  

It turned out it was. Its something the other side would rather just not talk about or avoid with distractions like how much does a head weigh. 🙃

As Gary Aguilar noted in the film, all of this evidence would indicate the Powers That Be that night--and recall all the military brass there-- did not want the brain weight recorded, and sure as heck did not want the brain dissected.  Because it would have been too powerful as evidence of more than one gunman.

I consider this to be the matching evidence point of the Bethesda call to Perry, threatening to take him before a medical board unless he changed his story. That obstruction of justice also happened that night.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-ordeal-of-malcolm-perry

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Steve Roe]

16 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

Please, launch into the predictable "Oh, yeah, what about, what about, what about?" I am done with the brain-weight issue.

Lance, once again we catch DiEugenio spinning whoppers and trying to get his dwindling followers to go after you and DVP. Playing the silly forum parlor game of "ignore" on you, DVP, Tracy and myself, is embarrassing as everyone knows here, he reads these posts. I have no idea why he keeps insulting all the forum member's intelligence with these childish games of pretend. 

As I have stated many times on this forum, DiEugenio is engaged in the "Conspiracy Story Telling" business. I have serious doubts he actually believes a lot of what he promotes on this forum and his conspiracy theory site, K&K. 

Again, we see DiEugenio referring to the old debunked "Back of the Head" wound. The autopsy photos show otherwise, and the big leap of fanatical faith is to believe they were faked. Furthermore, DiEugenio goes into the Stringer issue and the extremely laughable "Invasion of the Brain Snatchers" theory substituting another brain for Kennedy's. 

Here's what DiEugenio will never show his dwindling supporters. Dr. Randy Robertson, a certified radiologist and longtime conspiracy believer, viewed the actual autopsy photos and x-rays with permission of the Kennedy family in 2015. You can read his article here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/robertson.htm

To highlight his conclusions: 

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#1. Autopsy photographers Stringer and Riebe, intentionally misled official governmental investigators about the true forensic nature of the images contained on the roll of exposed 120 film. Their motivation, as well as that for Kellerman’s early attempt to destroy these duplicative images, remains unknown.

#2. Parkland physician Dr. Robert McClelland and many others were mistaken in their memories as to the exact size and nature of the wound to the back of the President’s head, as it appears in Dr. McClelland’s diagrammatic depiction. Both the original autopsy photographs and radiographs show the actual extent of the wounds.  This does not impugn the veracity of any other observations that Dr. McClelland has made.

#3.  Again, the original photographs and radiographs provide a degree of fidelity unchallengeable by any eyewitness attempts to describe the wounds to the President’s head in any manner. There are no internal discrepancies between the original and newly available photographs taken at the same time during the autopsy, or between any of the individual photographs or radiographs. Two cameras were simultaneously recording the true condition of the President’s body at the start of the autopsy. 

I can attest with absolute conviction that all these materials are authentic and unchanged since they were taken the night of the autopsy.

Randolph Robertson M.D. November 2015

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There was absolutely NO back of the head wound. The photos, x-rays were all legit and not doctored, faked or whatever. 

Naturally this is important information, but as usual, DiEugenio who is aware of this, will not address it. In fact, Dr. Randy Robertson was in the Stone/DiEugenio Destiny Betrayed cartoon film series. Do you think Stone/DiEugenio wanted to include this? Of course not, because it destroys a big majority of the silly claims, they make in the cartoon about Dr. Malcolm Perry, etc. 

This is the kind of chicanery that Stone/DiEugenio engaged in with the "Conspiracy Story Telling" money making fraud of Destiny Betrayed. 

 

[David Josephs]

On 12/19/2022 at 8:06 AM, Lance Payette said:

That - THAT - would silence the irrepressible Lance? I think not.

That - THAT - was "10 outta 10"? Only in Conspiracy World.

Here is Fred Litwin's post, which seems to irrepressible Lance to pretty much take the wind out of Jim's big mystery: https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/the-search-for-the-holy-grail-continues.

Consistent with the article I linked, Lopez concluded Oswald was NOT a CIA agent.

Lopez also agreed the WCR got the trip down and back correct as well...  

Not so much.

Wow, Lopez publishing in Blakey's final report says Oswald not CIA...  stop the presses!