Intercept interview with Morley

[Michaleen Kilroy]

This is an excellent interview with Jeff:

https://theintercept.com/2022/12/22/deconstructed-jfk-files-cia/?utm_campaign=theintercept&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
 

Couple of interesting new items I see:

- I’ve never heard Jeff mention the JCS as possibly running the anti-FPCC operation with LHO but he says CIA was a ‘junior’ agency at the time and may have been doing JCS bidding

- There’s a new name I haven’t seen before - Jerry Brown, an analyst with CIA’s Office of Security. Jeff is in talks with the Brown family for possible further story in 2023

Also, Jeff reminds again how GDM was interviewed in DC shortly after leaving Dallas and likely alerting officials there of LHO’s reaction when he ‘jokingly’ accused him of shooting Walker.

The intrigue never ends with this case.

Hoping in 2023 all the loose ends come together and the big picture finally comes into view - for historical truth and American society’s collective mental health.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Michaleen Kilroy

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Michaleen Kilroy said:

This is an excellent interview with Jeff:

https://theintercept.com/2022/12/22/deconstructed-jfk-files-cia/?utm_campaign=theintercept&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
 

Couple of interesting new items I see:

- I’ve never heard Jeff mention the JCS as possibly running the anti-FPCC operation with LHO but he says CIA was a ‘junior’ agency at the time and may have been doing JCS bidding

- There’s a new name I haven’t seen before - Jerry Brown, an analyst with CIA’s Office of Security. Jeff is in talks with the Brown family for possible further story in 2023

Also, Jeff reminds again how GDM was interviewed in DC shortly after leaving Dallas and likely alerting officials there of LHO’s reaction when he ‘jokingly’ accused him of shooting Walker.

The intrigue never ends with this case.

Hoping in 2023 all the loose ends come together and the big picture finally comes into view - for historical truth and American society’s collective sanity.

Thanks for the head's up on Intercept-Morley. 

[Pete Mellor]

9 hours ago, Michaleen Kilroy said:

I’ve never heard Jeff mention the JCS as possibly running the anti-FPCC operation with LHO but he says CIA was a ‘junior’ agency at the time and may have been doing JCS bidding

Yes, interesting.  Most researchers scrutinise CIA & look to their redacted and withheld files as to logical incrimination in the JFKA as well as their association with LHO etc.

Recently I was intrigued by a paragraph in Tom O'Neill's book 'Chaos', where he wrote:-""General Curtis E. LeMay, a legendary fighter pilot who'd implemented the carpet bombing of Japan during World War II.  A notorious hawk.  LeMay had served as chief of staff of the U.S. Air Force under Presidents Kennedy and Johnson.  In 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, he'd tried to organise a coup against Kennedy among the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he wanted to force the military to flout the president's orders and bomb the Soviet missile bases they'd found in Cuba."

I thought that passage "organise a coup against Kennedy among the Joint Chiefs of Staff" extremely interesting in 1962, considering the event in Dallas just over 12 months later AND adding JFK's backward steps on Vietnam and the Test Ban treaty in '63, the latter also not going down favourably with LeMay.  I certainly had never encountered any LeMay coup claim prior to reading O'Neill's work, which is very detailed and thorough in it's research.

O'Neill's Notes that accompanied the above quote named three books, 'In a Time of Torment' by I.F. Stone.  'LeMay: The Life & Wars of General Curtis LeMay' by Warren Kozak.  'Mission with LeMay: My Story' by Curtis LeMay & MacKinlay Kantor.

My interest piqued, over the latter couple of months I Amazoned the first two.  Izzy Stone's collection of his 1960's press publications contained just one piece on LeMay with no mention of any coup.  After waiting weeks for the Warren Kozak book to be shipped from the States, I drew another blank.  Kozak covers LeMay's life in standard biographical chronological order, so I read through the relevant time period covering the CMC and LeMay's service under Kennedy, and drew a second blank!  No mention at all of any intimation of a coup.  As all three books were absent from local library listings & the LeMay/Kantor book unavailable on internet searches, so far my attempts to corroborate O'Neill's coup claim has been unsuccessful.  I have raised this point with the author via e-mail, to ask just where exactly he came across this quote.  Tom O'Neill's reply has informed me that his books/notes etc are in California and at present he is travelling.  I have been requested to re-contact him in February.

Anyone reading this post who has a copy of the LeMay/Kantor publication could assist this search.

As for Jefferson Morley, he is a solid investigative journalist.  Very credible, and I briefly met him at Lancer a decade ago.

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Pete Mellor said:

Yes, interesting.  Most researchers scrutinise CIA & look to their redacted and withheld files as to logical incrimination in the JFKA as well as their association with LHO etc.

Recently I was intrigued by a paragraph in Tom O'Neill's book 'Chaos', where he wrote:-""General Curtis E. LeMay, a legendary fighter pilot who'd implemented the carpet bombing of Japan during World War II.  A notorious hawk.  LeMay had served as chief of staff of the U.S. Air Force under Presidents Kennedy and Johnson.  In 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, he'd tried to organise a coup against Kennedy among the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he wanted to force the military to flout the president's orders and bomb the Soviet missile bases they'd found in Cuba."

I thought that passage "organise a coup against Kennedy among the Joint Chiefs of Staff" extremely interesting in 1962, considering the event in Dallas just over 12 months later AND adding JFK's backward steps on Vietnam and the Test Ban treaty in '63, the latter also not going down favourably with LeMay.  I certainly had never encountered any LeMay coup claim prior to reading O'Neill's work, which is very detailed and thorough in it's research.

O'Neill's Notes that accompanied the above quote named three books, 'In a Time of Torment' by I.F. Stone.  'LeMay: The Life & Wars of General Curtis LeMay' by Warren Kozak.  'Mission with LeMay: My Story' by Curtis LeMay & MacKinlay Kantor.

My interest piqued, over the latter couple of months I Amazoned the first two.  Izzy Stone's collection of his 1960's press publications contained just one piece on LeMay with no mention of any coup.  After waiting weeks for the Warren Kozak book to be shipped from the States, I drew another blank.  Kozak covers LeMay's life in standard biographical chronological order, so I read through the relevant time period covering the CMC and LeMay's service under Kennedy, and drew a second blank!  No mention at all of any intimation of a coup.  As all three books were absent from local library listings & the LeMay/Kantor book unavailable on internet searches, so far my attempts to corroborate O'Neill's coup claim has been unsuccessful.  I have raised this point with the author via e-mail, to ask just where exactly he came across this quote.  Tom O'Neill's reply has informed me that his books/notes etc are in California and at present he is travelling.  I have been requested to re-contact him in February.

Anyone reading this post who has a copy of the LeMay/Kantor publication could assist this search.

As for Jefferson Morley, he is a solid investigative journalist.  Very credible, and I briefly met him at Lancer a decade ago.

Pete - interesting, look forward to an update. Also interesting is Morley looking at JCS running anti-FPCC operations. JFK moved Lemnitzer out - to NATO. The making of Seven Days in May during his presidency strikes me as significant. Dulles and Lemnitzer - what a pair. 

[Michaleen Kilroy]

11 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Yes, interesting.  Most researchers scrutinise CIA & look to their redacted and withheld files as to logical incrimination in the JFKA as well as their association with LHO etc.

Recently I was intrigued by a paragraph in Tom O'Neill's book 'Chaos', where he wrote:-""General Curtis E. LeMay, a legendary fighter pilot who'd implemented the carpet bombing of Japan during World War II.  A notorious hawk.  LeMay had served as chief of staff of the U.S. Air Force under Presidents Kennedy and Johnson.  In 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, he'd tried to organise a coup against Kennedy among the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he wanted to force the military to flout the president's orders and bomb the Soviet missile bases they'd found in Cuba."

I thought that passage "organise a coup against Kennedy among the Joint Chiefs of Staff" extremely interesting in 1962, considering the event in Dallas just over 12 months later AND adding JFK's backward steps on Vietnam and the Test Ban treaty in '63, the latter also not going down favourably with LeMay.  I certainly had never encountered any LeMay coup claim prior to reading O'Neill's work, which is very detailed and thorough in it's research.

O'Neill's Notes that accompanied the above quote named three books, 'In a Time of Torment' by I.F. Stone.  'LeMay: The Life & Wars of General Curtis LeMay' by Warren Kozak.  'Mission with LeMay: My Story' by Curtis LeMay & MacKinlay Kantor.

My interest piqued, over the latter couple of months I Amazoned the first two.  Izzy Stone's collection of his 1960's press publications contained just one piece on LeMay with no mention of any coup.  After waiting weeks for the Warren Kozak book to be shipped from the States, I drew another blank.  Kozak covers LeMay's life in standard biographical chronological order, so I read through the relevant time period covering the CMC and LeMay's service under Kennedy, and drew a second blank!  No mention at all of any intimation of a coup.  As all three books were absent from local library listings & the LeMay/Kantor book unavailable on internet searches, so far my attempts to corroborate O'Neill's coup claim has been unsuccessful.  I have raised this point with the author via e-mail, to ask just where exactly he came across this quote.  Tom O'Neill's reply has informed me that his books/notes etc are in California and at present he is travelling.  I have been requested to re-contact him in February.

Anyone reading this post who has a copy of the LeMay/Kantor publication could assist this search.

As for Jefferson Morley, he is a solid investigative journalist.  Very credible, and I briefly met him at Lancer a decade ago.

Yes that is a serious allegation and would be nice to know the source.

[Pete Mellor]

19 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Pete - interesting, look forward to an update. Also interesting is Morley looking at JCS running anti-FPCC operations. JFK moved Lemnitzer out - to NATO. The making of Seven Days in May during his presidency strikes me as significant. Dulles and Lemnitzer - what a pair. 

Agree Paul.  When I re-make contact with Tom O'Neill I will certainly update the findings.  I have always felt an inkling that JCS or some element of same could have joined the action in Dallas.  Army Intell just happened to be in Dealey Plaza photographing the Book Depository in the person of James Powell, I think his photo was shot prior to any DPD evidence being found on the 6th floor!  Not to mention the 112th army group at Fort Sam Houston being stood down from presidential protection duties in Dallas.

As an aside, reading about LeMay, the popular quote of him stating "bombing the Vietnamese back into the stone age" is false.  Apparently he never said that at all.  The phrase was an invention of Kantor in his book with LeMay, which LeMay let stand, but denied later that he ever said that.

[Pete Mellor]

10 hours ago, Michaleen Kilroy said:

Yes that is a serious allegation and would be nice to know the source.

It certainly would Michaleen, my thoughts exactly.  Stand by.

[Pete Mellor]

In reference to above posts:-My follow-up e-mail to Tom O'Neill regarding his passage in his book 'Chaos'

LeMay had served as chief of staff of the U.S. Air Force under Presidents Kennedy and Johnson.  In 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, he'd tried to organise a coup against Kennedy among the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he wanted to force the military to flout the president's orders and bomb the Soviet missile bases they'd found in Cuba."

has gone unanswered.  I have checked two out of the three books he named in his Notes for the above passage and found nothing.

It was certainly a serious accusation against LeMay, one I had never come across previously.

Perhaps Mr. O'Neill is busy with other matters or he's having the same difficulty with his Notes that I encountered.

[Chuck Schwartz]

This is from Wikipediia ( in regards to the LeMay quote about bombing the North Vietnamese back to the Stone Age)" In his 1965 autobiography (co-written with MacKinlay Kantor), LeMay is quoted as saying his response to North Vietnam would be to demand that "they've got to draw in their horns and stop their aggression, or we're going to bomb them back into the Stone Age. And we would shove them back into the Stone Age with Air power or Naval power—not with ground forces".^[48] LeMay subsequently rejected misquotes of the famous "Stone Age" quote.^[49] Later, in a Washington Post interview LeMay said that "I never said we should bomb them back to the Stone Age. I said we had the capability to do it. I want to save lives on both sides".^[50] Etymologyst Barry Popik cites multiple sources (including interviews with LeMay) for various versions of both quotes from LeMay.^[51] Nevertheless, the "should" quote remained part of the LeMay legend, and remains widely attributed to him ever after.^[49][52]"

[Leslie Sharp]

1 hour ago, Pete Mellor said:

In reference to above posts:-My follow-up e-mail to Tom O'Neill regarding his passage in his book 'Chaos'

LeMay had served as chief of staff of the U.S. Air Force under Presidents Kennedy and Johnson.  In 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, he'd tried to organise a coup against Kennedy among the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he wanted to force the military to flout the president's orders and bomb the Soviet missile bases they'd found in Cuba."

has gone unanswered.  I have checked two out of the three books he named in his Notes for the above passage and found nothing.

It was certainly a serious accusation against LeMay, one I had never come across previously.

Perhaps Mr. O'Neill is busy with other matters or he's having the same difficulty with his Notes that I encountered.

Pete, 

Perhaps of interest, a seldom recognized general who “retired” from military in late 1962, having served as Army Chief of Staff alongside LeMay and Lemnitzer — General Georg H. Decker . . .

On the issue of Vietnam, and perhaps the death knell of his military career, several vignettes suffice to underscore that Kennedy’s Army Chief of Staff was not in lockstep with the administration’s strategic thinking related to military activity in Southeast Asia. According to Andrew J. Birtie, historian at the US Army Center of Military History, Kennedy “wanted to transform the entire US Army, both mentally and structurally, into the type of politically astute, socially conscious, and guerrilla-savvy force that he believed was necessary to combat Maoist-style revolutions—and General Decker did not.” (emphasis added) In fact, Decker was at the opposite end of the spectrum on the preferred way forward in Vietnam and Laos, once even raising the question of nuclear weaponry. “[The US] cannot win a conventional war in Southeast Asia; if we go in, we should go in to win, and that means bombing Hanoi, China, and maybe even using nuclear bombs.”” (emphasis added.)

            According to Harry G. Summers Jr., “President Kennedy's special military adviser and for a time chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, [Maxwell Taylor] would later tell the Senate that the United States was not trying to ‘defeat’ the North Vietnamese, only ‘to cause them to mend their ways.’ He scoffed at the concept of defeating the enemy as being like ‘Appomattox or something of that sort.’ Those who resisted, such as Army chief of staff General George Decker, a World War II combat veteran, were eased out of office.” — Coup in Dallas

 

 

[Pete Mellor]

On 3/15/2023 at 12:49 AM, Leslie Sharp said:

On the issue of Vietnam, and perhaps the death knell of his military career, several vignettes suffice to underscore that Kennedy’s Army Chief of Staff was not in lockstep with the administration’s strategic thinking related to military activity in Southeast Asia.

Yes, interesting Leslie.  I'm certain that there were many more figures in the Pentagon, not to mention his own V.P., cabinet and CIA, who were 180 degrees opposed to JFK's military policies as well as his overall foreign policies.  LBJ was pushing for combat troops in Vietnam as early as '61.  Dulles undermining JFK in Indonesia.  Angleton betraying the nuclear non-proliferation stance with Israel.  Jack was surrounded like Custer at Little Big Horn!

[Pete Mellor]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:11 PM, Pete Mellor said:

In reference to above posts:-My follow-up e-mail to Tom O'Neill regarding his passage in his book 'Chaos'

LeMay had served as chief of staff of the U.S. Air Force under Presidents Kennedy and Johnson.  In 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, he'd tried to organise a coup against Kennedy among the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he wanted to force the military to flout the president's orders and bomb the Soviet missile bases they'd found in Cuba."

has gone unanswered.  I have checked two out of the three books he named in his Notes for the above passage and found nothing.

It was certainly a serious accusation against LeMay, one I had never come across previously.

Perhaps Mr. O'Neill is busy with other matters or he's having the same difficulty with his Notes that I encountered.

To complete my odyssey in pursuit of author Tom O'Neill's profound quote, in above post, that appears in his book 'Chaos'.  Just a couple of weeks after I posted above, Mr O'Neill did reply & advised I get hold of 'Mission With LeMay' (1965) by LeMay & MacKinlay Kantor.  After waiting a few weeks for delivery from the States, I have finally completed ALL of O'Neill's references to the 'Coup' passage.

Nowhere in any of the three books, i.e.  'In a Time of Torment' by I.F. Stone.  'LeMay: The Life & Wars of General Curtis LeMay' by Warren Kozak.  'Mission with LeMay: My Story' by Curtis LeMay & MacKinlay Kantor, is there anything resembling organising a coup against Kennedy among the Joint Chiefs of Staff etc.  P553 in 'Mission with LeMay actually states:- "It shall suffice to say that I did not hold many of the same views held by Secretary McNamara with regard to our military posture, and do not agree with many of the acts or attitudes of the Administration.  In the Pentagon I carried out every order issued to me to the best of my ability.  There never occurred an instance in which I rebelled.  I am a professional soldier and airman, and professional soldiers and airmen obey orders.  At the same time, there was another obligation inherent in the job.  It was required that I give my candid opinion to the Congress when asked to do so.  This I did.  I gave my candid opinion to the Secretary of Defense, or to the President himself-all three Presidents under whom I served during those years.  Any time they asked me for a straight answer, they got it.  Sometimes my answers did not happen to coincide with the opinions held by the Administration.  Often, in such cases, various writers who turned out to be foes of the Air Force, or personal detractors of LeMay, would contrive many paragraphs in which I was accused of bearding Mr McNamara in his lair, or going all-out to scuttle the White House policies in order to achieve, perhaps, personal vainglory; or even to put myself into candidacy as a future military dictator.  The military will never take over the Government in the United States.  Civilian control is part and parcel of our Democratic system."  

Just goes to show that not only can you not believe everything you read in the papers, but books as well.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Pete Mellor
Add info

[Paul Brancato]

I think JFK’s relationship to the making of Seven Days in May speaks volumes to his fears regarding the JCS. Also would add his ‘private’ communications with Krushchev, highlighted in JFK and the Unspeakable, btw the book that RFK Jr recommends. 

[Pete Mellor]

36 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

I think JFK’s relationship to the making of Seven Days in May speaks volumes to his fears regarding the JCS. Also would add his ‘private’ communications with Krushchev, highlighted in JFK and the Unspeakable, btw the book that RFK Jr recommends. 

Certainly agree Paul, I think JFK was more wary of CIA as well as JCS, and as Douglass documents, he was also avoiding his State Department.  I think he was like Custer at Little Big Horn.  Surrounded.  In case you missed my 'edit' to above post from 'Mission with LeMay' :-

 "It shall suffice to say that I did not hold many of the same views held by Secretary McNamara with regard to our military posture, and do not agree with many of the acts or attitudes of the Administration.  In the Pentagon I carried out every order issued to me to the best of my ability.  There never occurred an instance in which I rebelled.  I am a professional soldier and airman, and professional soldiers and airmen obey orders.  At the same time, there was another obligation inherent in the job.  It was required that I give my candid opinion to the Congress when asked to do so.  This I did.  I gave my candid opinion to the Secretary of Defense, or to the President himself-all three Presidents under whom I served during those years.  Any time they asked me for a straight answer, they got it.  Sometimes my answers did not happen to coincide with the opinions held by the Administration.  Often, in such cases, various writers who turned out to be foes of the Air Force, or personal detractors of LeMay, would contrive many paragraphs in which I was accused of bearding Mr McNamara in his lair, or going all-out to scuttle the White House policies in order to achieve, perhaps, personal vainglory; or even to put myself into candidacy as a future military dictator.  The military will never take over the Government in the United States.  Civilian control is part and parcel of our Democratic system."

[David McLean]

Pete, Paul…from memory, several of LeMay’s remarks during Cuban missile crisis meetings and perhaps other times,could rightly be interpreted as incitement to mutiny. 
As a personal aside, we lived in Lincoln NE in October 1963…at the height of that awful week, about 10pm, the air raid siren atop the primary school near Bradfield Drive, went off for several minutes. You bet we were scared, more like terrified.