Texas Theater: Fill in the blank!

[Bill Brown]

[David Von Pein]

On 2/4/2023 at 11:45 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Brewer did not see anyone run into the TT.  Physically impossible.

From an August 2022 discussion.....

GIL JESUS SAID THIS.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

To throw your own words back at you --- You're kidding, right?!

You MUST be kidding here. Because nobody could possibly think Johnny Brewer was lying when he said Oswald went into the theater.

Why?

1.) Brewer, while standing on the sidewalk on Jefferson Boulevard in front of his Hardy's Shoe Store, sees Oswald approaching the Texas Theater.

2.) Brewer then sees Oswald turn right toward the front entrance to the theater.

3.) Brewer then walks toward the theater himself.

4.) After starting to walk toward the theater and after reaching the front of the theater, at no time did Brewer see Oswald come back out to the sidewalk on Jefferson.

5.) The logical conclusion that Johnny Brewer reached, therefore, was that the man who was acting "funny" and "scared" and "nervous" in front of his shoe store just a minute earlier (i.e., Lee Harvey Oswald) must have physically entered the Texas Theater because (similar to the logical reasoning that explains where Bullet CE399 went after it came out of John F. Kennedy's throat)---He had nowhere else to go but into the theater. (Unless you want to theorize that Oswald was able to cloak himself somehow and become invisible.)

GIL JESUS (INCREDIBLY) SAID THIS.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Boy, talk about taking something OUT OF CONTEXT. Geez, this takes the cake, Gil!

When I said "He had nowhere else to go but into the theater", I was (of course!) talking about what Brewer was observing with Oswald's movements when we add up my #1 thru #4 items on my previous list. I certainly wasn't talking about what LHO's options were PRIOR to the time when Oswald was seen walking in front of the theater.

Gil, you knew you were taking my "nowhere else to go" comment completely out of context, right?

[Gil's response to my post above was ...... Dead silence.]

More....

http://jfk-archives / Johnny Brewer, The IBM Men, The Texas Theater, & More

 

[Steve Roe]

21 hours ago, Ron Ege said:

More on Brewer's "friends":

http://www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/rokc forum/www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13316841-brewer-s-ibm-friends.html

Any validity to them being Igor Vaganov and/or Richard Radalat/Radelet?  Dunno.

Anyone?

Naw, those ROKC soldiers imagine all kinds of whacky stuff. Ask them about Oswald never lived in the Beckley Rooming house. 

Brewer states in his 6fm oral history that the 2 IBM guys were part time workers on the weekend. As Ian Griggs article mentions, Johnny Brewer was working by himself on that day. 

[Steve Roe]

Johnny Brewer deserves a Congressional Medal of Honor for helping in the arrest of the murderer Oswald. Who knows how many more people he would have killed evading arrest. He almost got McDonald in the Texas. 

[Guest]

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Ron Bulman]

14 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Yes, the doors and even the ticket booth are deeply recessed from the sidewalk.  From near a block away Brewer did not see Harvy or Lee go in the door, nor the ticket booth.

[Gil Jesus]

On 2/4/2023 at 11:45 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Brewer did not see anyone run into the TT.  Physically impossible.

Correct. The doors to the theater were recessed.

https://gil-jesus.com/oswalds-arrest/

For example,  Julia Postal said, “Mr. Brewer said that he ( Oswald ) had been ducking in at his place of business and that he had gone by me because I was facing west.” ( 7 H 11 )

Why on earth would he tell her the man ( Oswald ) went by her if he had seen him enter the theater ?

Because he didn't.

And the question remains, if Brewer lied about seeing Oswald enter the theater, what else did he lie about ?

Edited February 8, 2023 by Gil Jesus

[Michael Griffith]

Are you aware that the FBI found evidence that the DPD story that Oswald tried to fire his revolver at the police in the theater was false? The DPD claimed that in the theater Oswald pulled his revolver on the police and tried to shoot but that the gun misfired. However, the FBI test-fired the revolver over 100 times and not once did it misfire (3 H 463). 

On the other hand, the FBI crime lab reported that Oswald's revolver was defective because the firing pin did not work (McKnight, Breach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why, University Press of Kansas, 2013, p. 146). Although this report lends credence to the DPD claim about Oswald's actions in the theater, it also, at the bare minimum, raises serious doubts about the charge that Oswald shot Tippit with that revolver. 

Did it ever occur to you that the police officers lied about how Oswald reacted when they arrested him?

Edited February 8, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Ken Davies]

That Oswald was a "lucky shooter" wasn 't he? 

An old rifle with a defective scope to kill a president and a pistol with a broken firing pin to kill a police officer.  

 Was his minox camera ( oh, l forgot he only had a case ) also broken?  I bet he could have made one heck of a handyman🙄

[Guest]

On 2/8/2023 at 6:50 AM, Michael Griffith said:

Are you aware that the FBI found evidence that the DPD story that Oswald tried to fire his revolver at the police in the theater was false? The DPD claimed that in the theater Oswald pulled his revolver on the police and tried to shoot but that the gun misfired. However, the FBI test-fired the revolver over 100 times and not once did it misfire (3 H 463). 

On the other hand, the FBI crime lab reported that Oswald's revolver was defective because the firing pin did not work (McKnight, Breach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why, University Press of Kansas, 2013, p. 146). Although this report lends credence to the DPD claim about Oswald's actions in the theater, it also, at the bare minimum, raises serious doubts about the charge that Oswald shot Tippit with that revolver. 

Did it ever occur to you that the police officers lied about how Oswald reacted when they arrested him?

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Greg Doudna]

3 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

On the other hand, the FBI crime lab reported that Oswald's revolver was defective because the firing pin did not work (McKnight, Breach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why, University Press of Kansas, 2013, p. 146).

Michael, page 146 of the McKnight book cited says nothing about the FBI lab finding the firing pin not working on Oswald's revolver. But I found your reference on page 122 of the edition cited, and although that is what McKnight says, it appears to be a serious misreading of the underlying FBI documents.

McKnight:

"Later, when the FBI crime lab examined the four empty .38 hulls retrieved from the Tippit crime scene, none of the cartridges bore firing-pin indentations. Based on the physical evidence, BuLab surmised, 'the firing pin would not strike one or more of the cartridges with sufficient force to fire them.' The FBI was confronted with the strong likelihood that Oswald's pistol was so hopelessly defective that it could not have been used in the Tippit shooting."

The bolded statement: absolutely not so. What the FBI found (in the documents cited in the McKnight footnote which I checked) is that no firing-pin indentations were found on the unfired live cartridges taken from the Oswald revolver. Not the shell hulls found at the crime scene!-- which had been fired and had firing-pin indentations (otherwise they could not have been fired). (https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62264#relPageId=138). (The "nine" cartridges of that link appear to refer to five from Oswald's pocket plus four of the six claimed taken from Oswald's revolver which were in FBI possession; apparently not including two others claimed taken from Oswald's revolver which had been given to the Secret Service.)

The final sentence of the McKnight passage above is purely a non-FBI later author's (McKnight's) wrong interpretation following logically from the misreading of what the FBI reported, that is: a wrong conclusion logically drawn from a starting mistaken factual claim.

In terms of evidence there is nothing to this idea that there was anything found wrong or suspected wrong with the firing-pin of the Oswald revolver. From all reports the FBI lab found Oswald's revolver in excellent working condition with nothing wrong with it, and never claimed otherwise (compare this from the FBI on the firing pin specifically: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62264#relPageId=138).

Edited February 8, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Guest]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:32 AM, Greg Doudna said:

Michael, page 146 of the McKnight book cited says nothing about the FBI lab finding the firing pin not working on Oswald's revolver. But I found your reference on page 122 of the edition cited, and although that is what McKnight says, it appears to be a serious misreading of the underlying FBI documents.

McKnight:

"Later, when the FBI crime lab examined the four empty .38 hulls retrieved from the Tippit crime scene, none of the cartridges bore firing-pin indentations. Based on the physical evidence, BuLab surmised, 'the firing pin would not strike one or more of the cartridges with sufficient force to fire them.' The FBI was confronted with the strong likelihood that Oswald's pistol was so hopelessly defective that it could not have been used in the Tippit shooting."

The bolded statement: absolutely not so. What the FBI found (in the documents cited in the McKnight footnote which I checked) is that no firing-pin indentations were found on the unfired live cartridges taken from the Oswald revolver. Not the shell hulls found at the crime scene!-- which had been fired and had firing-pin indentations (otherwise they could not have been fired). (https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62264#relPageId=138). (The "nine" cartridges of that link appear to refer to five from Oswald's pocket plus four of the six claimed taken from Oswald's revolver which were in FBI possession; apparently not including two others claimed taken from Oswald's revolver which had been given to the Secret Service.)

The final sentence of the McKnight passage above is purely a non-FBI later author's (McKnight's) wrong interpretation following logically from the misreading of what the FBI reported, that is: a wrong conclusion logically drawn from a starting mistaken factual claim.

In terms of evidence there is nothing to this idea that there was anything found wrong or suspected wrong with the firing-pin of the Oswald revolver. From all reports the FBI lab found Oswald's revolver in excellent working condition with nothing wrong with it, and never claimed otherwise (compare this from the FBI on the firing pin specifically: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62264#relPageId=138).

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Ron Bulman]

12 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

Did it ever occur to you that the police officers lied about how Oswald reacted when they arrested him?

Several years ago.  He didn't own a pistol.  No proof of him ever picking one up from Seaport Traders.  It was planted, why Westbrook was there.  If ya don't believe me read DJ at K&K.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Bulman]

On 2/7/2023 at 5:28 AM, Bill Brown said:

 

And you really believe that is where the ticket booth was located on the day of the assassination?

 

Nobody's moved it.  It's not portable.  Part of the building.

[Ron Bulman]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:54 PM, Ron Bulman said:

How about straight from the horses mouth, so to speak?

From page 55 of Ian Griggs book No Case to Answer.

On Monday25th November 1996, as a result of my friend the late Mike Blackwell acting as the middleman, I had the opportunity to meet and interview Johnny Calvin Brewer.  The 45 minute interview was held at brewer's house in Austin, Texas.  American researchers Mike Blackwell, Richard Bartholomew and Mark Rowe were also present.  Brewer had no objection to the interview being recorded on audio-tape.

Pg. 56.  IG-How long had you been there-doing that job?  JB- Probably since August of '62.*

Pg. 58.  IG-Now we're obviously leading up to your view of this man acting strangely.  When this happened, John, were you in the shop by yourself?  JB-There were two other men in there.  They were from IBM - they were in the neighborhood.  I had known them ever since I came there.*  IG-Customers?  JB-No, they weren't customers.  They'd just come in and kill time and lounge around. 

Pg. 60.  IG-Okay, from your vantage point you could see that he went in without buying a ticket?  JB-Well, you could see the cashier's booth which was out on the sidewalk.**(No, you could not!)  I didn't really know for sure whether he bought a ticket or not.  I saw him walk in and that's when I went back and - I CAN'T REMEMBER EITHER OF THEIR NAMES - but one of them closed up for me while I was gone.  When I came back the store was locked.  I said I'm going to check.  IG-You got a feeling all was not right?  JB-Right.  So they stayed there and I walked up.

I'm not sure about sinister.  But suspicious?  Maybe.  More questions should have been asked at the time and by Ian at the end of the interview.

*JB had known the IBM men "since he came there".  I.E., over a year, 15 months, a year and a quarter.  They were in the neighborhood, killing time, lounging around.  Regularly over a year and a quarter?  In a shoe shop?  They locked up for him?  But he randomly interjects, I can't remember either of there names???

** More later on that.

 

I'd never seen the Brewer 2005 interview for the TSBD's Oswald did it all alone museum.   Interesting.  He seems, honest, down to earth, straightforward.  But there are questions that should have been asked.

In 96 for Griggs the IBM men were from the neighborhood, lounging around, killing time, not customers.  He knew them, for over a year.  But he randomly interjected he couldn't remember their names.  

Then in 2005 they become part time weekend employees.  IBM guys needing a part time weekend job at a shoe store.  Ok.  Friday evening, Saturday?

Texas had a Blue Law for Sunay's.  I remember.  Groceries and gas were about all that could be sold on the Lord's Day.  Not shoes.