Biden Says JFKA Secrets Are Mine, Not Yours

[Guest]

On 2/8/2023 at 5:52 AM, Denny Zartman said:

Fortunately, through the process of elimination we know for certain that, whatever it is, it's not Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone, it's not Carlos Marcello, and it's not George Hickey.

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Paul Brancato]

11 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

What we don't know, however, is whether what is being postponed has anything whatsoever to do with who killed JFK. My guess is that it doesn't - that it relates to the CIA's obsession with concealing "operations" and "sources." Even if it were a bombshell of some sort, there's a likelihood (IMO) it will be a bombshell that sheds no direct light on the JFKA.

Logical fallacies aside, and regardless of what’s in the remaining unreleased documents or what may have been blacked out of already released ones, aren’t you a bit troubled by the lack of transparency and the overreach of the Executive? 

[Guest]

On 2/8/2023 at 7:39 AM, Paul Brancato said:

Logical fallacies aside, and regardless of what’s in the remaining unreleased documents or what may have been blacked out of already released ones, aren’t you a bit troubled by the lack of transparency and the overreach of the Executive? 

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Tom Gram]

10 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

Of course, the fact that postponement disputes are still festering in 2023, when the JFK Records Act is so clear about its "disclose everything" mandate, is extremely troubling. I'm astonished that Presidents and CIA Directors of such very different ideologies have bought into postponement.

Does anyone seriously think the CIA would've trusted Twitter-happy Trump with anything resembling dark secrets? Or fumbling-mumbling Biden for that matter? I have to believe it's been a rubber-stamp process, contrary to what the Act seemingly requires.

That being said, if the dark truth were simply "Yes, certain high-level CIA officials and even LBJ were involved in planning the JFKA," I really don't think it would still be hidden 60 years later. I know that's heresy to CTers who think the JFKA is the seminal event in the history of the world, but I honestly don't think "Yes, certain high-level CIA officials and even LBJ were involved in planning the JFKA" would be that big of a deal in 2003, 2013 or 2023.

Given the CIA's obsession with protecting sources and methods, my guess would be that what's being postponed relates to things that would strike most of us as fairly uninteresting. It is, however, difficult to see NARA, CIA Directors and Presidents buying into that in 2023. An alternative might be some bombshell relating to the USSR or Cuba that hasn't even occurred to us.

Lance, you can’t honestly believe that a revelation of the CIA and/or LBJ being involved in the JFK assassination wouldn’t be “that big of a deal”. All hell would break loose. 

Also, from looking at a ton of records that still have redactions it’s pretty clear that a good chunk of what’s being withheld is stuff that would embarrass the CIA. Here are a couple relevant articles by Dan Hardaway if anyone is interested: 

https://aarclibrary.org/what-were-they-hiding-and-what-should-we-look-for/

https://aarclibrary.org/the-intelligence-community-flips-off-america/

[Guest]

On 2/8/2023 at 9:42 AM, Tom Gram said:

Lance, you can’t honestly believe that a revelation of the CIA and/or LBJ being involved in the JFK assassination wouldn’t be “that big of a deal”. All hell would break loose. 

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Michaleen Kilroy]

3 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

What we don't know, however, is whether what is being postponed has anything whatsoever to do with who killed JFK

BS we don’t. This was from 20 years ago and was endorsed by both sides of the CT and LN debate.

It’s obvious the CIA is holding on to these files for dear life. And it’s obvious to me the only possible reason is they are incriminating:

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2003/12/18/jfks-assassination/

[Lawrence Schnapf]

I cant publicly opine on the DOJ motion to dismiss until we file our opposition but i think Lance has decent job explaining the DOJ's position legal argument- as flawed as it is.        

[W. Niederhut]

8 hours ago, Bill Fite said:

If I remember correctly the duties of the President of the US do not include 'attaching riders' to laws passed by the legislative branch.

 

Bill,

     Here is George H.W. Bush's statement on signing the JFK Records Act.

     I'm not an attorney, but GHWB appears to be claiming Constitutional authority of the Executive to override the statutory provisions of the bill.  (?)

Statement on Signing the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 | The American Presidency Project (ucsb.edu)

October 26, 1992

[Michaleen Kilroy]

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

I honestly don't think "Yes, certain high-level CIA officials and even LBJ were involved in planning the JFKA" would be that big of a deal in 2003, 2013 or 2023.

That’s been the plan all along - to hold on to anything incriminating until everyone who lived in the time of JFK is dead and gone - including witnesses - with no impact to the USG and especially the CIA.

They’re getting close to succeeding.

[Guest]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:39 AM, Michaleen Kilroy said:

BS we don’t. This was from 20 years ago and was endorsed by both sides of the CT and LN debate.

It’s obvious the CIA is holding on to these files for dear life. And it’s obvious to me the only possible reason is they are incriminating:

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2003/12/18/jfks-assassination/

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Michaleen Kilroy]

11 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

My belief is simply that it's unlikely any dark JFKA Secret would've survived this long and is probably not what the CIA's opposition is about - but that's just my opinion and could be wrong.

Thanks for admitting that. No one knows for sure but that falls squarely on the USG and Intel community. 

Joannides - under the CIA’s orders of course  - committed a felony in becoming the HSCA liaison while hiding his background as case officer for the DRE during the time of LHO. They have done everything they can to hide the details of his operations - lying to the WC, HSCA and ARRB.

I’ve seen what Intel agencies are capable of like MI5 in Northern Ireland. The CIA was doing same throughout the Cold War. I don’t underestimate how far they would go in the defense of ‘freedom.’

[Lawrence Schnapf]

Lance- there were important factoids that were released in December particularly about Mexico City. very useful for historians who can weave together facts and put them in appropriate context. we have learned that the mexican government received dupes of the wire tap recordings. the CIA destroyed its own recordings so we only have the Hoover phone call with LBJ where Hoover says the voice did not match Oswald and that may have been impersonated. BTW- the recording of this LBJ-Hoover call at the LBJ library is missing this part of the discussion (there is just hissing). Fortunately, someone transcribed the complete conversation and it managed to survive. we now know the Mexican government may be able to resolve this issue if it still has the recordings.     

we also now know the CIA had the JMWAVE station investigate the possibility that Cuban exiles had been involved in the assassination. the CIA previously denied they had done this.  The situation reports prepared for this investigation were last seen in 1973 by the author of a 1977 memo to the HSCA. Those reports apparently have been destroyed or are "missing".

The CIA released the name of the memo author this past December. Unfortunately, he died two years ago and therefore cannot be interviewed so it has effectively buried this history.      

[Pat Speer]

26 minutes ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

Lance- there were important factoids that were released in December particularly about Mexico City. very useful for historians who can weave together facts and put them in appropriate context. we have learned that the mexican government received dupes of the wire tap recordings. the CIA destroyed its own recordings so we only have the Hoover phone call with LBJ where Hoover says the voice did not match Oswald and that may have been impersonated. BTW- the recording of this LBJ-Hoover call at the LBJ library is missing this part of the discussion (there is just hissing). Fortunately, someone transcribed the complete conversation and it managed to survive. we now know the Mexican government may be able to resolve this issue if it still has the recordings.     

we also now know the CIA had the JMWAVE station investigate the possibility that Cuban exiles had been involved in the assassination. the CIA previously denied they had done this.  The situation reports prepared for this investigation were last seen in 1973 by the author of a 1977 memo to the HSCA. Those reports apparently have been destroyed or are "missing".

The CIA released the name of the memo author this past December. Unfortunately, he died two years ago and therefore cannot be interviewed so it has effectively buried this history.      

Rex Bradford acted out the transcript and found that it played out nowhere near the length of the gap on the tape. This strongly suggests that much was left out of the transcript. After Rex pointed out that the tape was blank, moreover, the library had it studied. They acknowledged that it was not wear and tear and that it must have been deliberately erased by some unnamed person. This is suspicious as heck.

Only adding to the weirdness, when I compared the library transcript to the transcript in Max Holland's book I found that Max had changed some words to make Hoover's statements less problematic. He couldn't claim it was matter of interpretation, of course, because there was no recording to interpret. All we have is the incomplete transcript, and Max chose to change it for his book. 

Many have claimed there are no smoking guns and that if there was a smoking gun it would have been destroyed long ago.

We have reason to suspect this tape was a smoking gun. 

[Lawrence Schnapf]

and now we also know that the Mexican government had a copy of this recording. whether they still have it and if it is still playable is another issue.

Lance- would you agree that If someone was impersonating Oswald, that is an explosive factoid?

Tunheim told me in December that State Department did not help ARRB with its outreach to the Mexican government. Jim Johnston (former Church Committee staff attorney) is trying to get records from the Mexican government . I will follow-up with him on this issue,  

[Guest]

On 2/8/2023 at 1:07 PM, Lawrence Schnapf said:

Lance- would you agree that If someone was impersonating Oswald, that is an explosive factoid?

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette