Moments Leading to Oswald's Deserved Death

[Tom Gram]

8 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Any number of media people who had contact with Lee Oswald in New Orleans in the summer of '63 could (and probably did) provide all the information they had on Oswald immediately after the assassination (seeing as how Mr. Oswald was the most talked-about person on the planet during the hours just after JFK was murdered).

And that info coming from New Orleans would have included information about the "Fair Play For Cuba Committee", which was info that was originally provided (voluntarily) by Lee Oswald himself in August of '63 via his radio and television interviews on New Orleans stations WDSU-TV and WDSU-Radio.

I would guess that right after the name "Lee Harvey Oswald" was first revealed as the prime suspect in the assassination, the people at WDSU in New Orleans were on the phone as quickly as they could dial, providing national media outlets with all the information they had on Oswald (including their video and audio tapes of Oswald's interviews).

There was nothing sinister about such "FPCC" information being shared with the national news media very quickly. Given the fact that every newsman in the country was no doubt hungry for ANY info pertaining to this guy named Oswald in the hours after JFK was shot, I don't find it surprising in the least that the national television networks found out that Lee Oswald was affiliated with the FPCC by 4:00 PM CST on Nov. 22. In fact, I would have expected that information to come out very quickly. Because that's what good newsmen and reporters do---they dig stuff up. And many times they dig it up very quickly.

 

Thanks David, I was wondering when the FPCC info was first broadcast on TV. According to the reporter, the information on the FPCC actually came from the Dallas Police, not WDSU. 

That makes sense, because the FBI, who of course knew Oswald and had an internal security case file, didn’t even figure out at the Bureau level that Oswald had lived in New Orleans until something ridiculous like 10 p.m. Friday night. 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57690#relPageId=183

The information coming from the DPD suggests that an officer told reporters about the FPCC membership card. I’m not sure where else that info could have come from by 4:00 p.m.

[Bill Brown]

14 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Can someone find the Wade news conference video and link it to us?

I would like to hear these other reporters yelling out the same correction we hear Ruby shout out from the table top in back.

And if Ruby did indeed shout out the correction followed by stating Wade's first name "Henry" ...wouldn't one assume that Ruby knew Wade well enough to address him by his first name...especially in such a high profile world media watching setting?

I'm surprised Wade didn't shout back...thanks Jack!

 

 

 

 

 

What is it with you guys?  Again, none of the voices used Wade's first name when correcting him on the name of the organization.

 

[Joe Bauer]

Just another thought to consider regards Jack Ruby's true relationship with the Dallas PD.

In Ruby stripper Karen "Little Lynn" Carlin's testimony to the Warren Commission she relates a life and death threat situation she had with another Dallas nightclub owner just months before her employment time with Jack Ruby.

The name of the nightclub was the "Cellar." It was a "Topless Waitress / Beatnik" themed joint.

You all may recall that several of JFK's Dallas trip SS detail went there to wet their beaks and enjoy the sights the late night till early morning hours of 11/22/1963.

The owner was a person by the name of Pat Kirkwood.

A man with a nefarious reputation by most accounts.

According to Little Lynn, Kirkwood wanted to rub her out because she told the press and authorities Kirkwood had a number of Dallas personnel on his under the table side payoff payroll.

Karen Carlin then proposed that nothing ever came of her whistle blowing as far as Kirkwood being charged with anything because of the inherent police corruption back then.

You can read this part of her WC testimony below.

My point here is that it is very probably true that a certain number of Dallas police were on the take in certain areas of illicit business affairs back in those days.

The idea that Jack Ruby may have engaged in this same type of activities is just as plausible as the Kirkwood affair Little Lynn described to the WC.

The more one reads about Ruby's improbable access into the DPD basement on the morning of 11/24/1963 the more it seems likely someone on the DPD inside helped him in that endeavor. Someone of the corrupt pay off cop milieu that we all know existed back then.

Karen "Little Lynn" Carlin WC testimony.

Mr. HUBERT. You didn't have in mind some other group of people who were after you?
Mrs. CARLIN. No---well, it all goes back to where I used to work. I had already been threatened by Pat Kirkwood and I didn't know they were escaping from the jail when I saw them.

Mr. HUBERT. Who is Pat Kirkwood
Mrs. CARLIN. He owns the Cellar and I had already been threatened by him. My life had been threatened by him.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did he do that?
Mrs. CARLIN. Well, it was--he had some publicity people down there--- television and cameras and so on, and we never got along too well because I told the police, the vice squad about him and identified some policemen that were being paid off by him and everything, and of course, he had so many friends he got out of it real easy, but then he hated me for what I had done.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

11 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

 

What is it with you guys?  Again, none of the voices used Wade's first name when correcting him on the name of the organization.

 

BB, I admit I can't say anyone did...for certain.

I'll admit "I" never heard anyone shout Wade's first name.

I ran with other's saying Ruby did this.

I do qualify that claim reference with an "if."

If, Ruby actually shouted out "Henry" to Wade...then it would seem as if they knew each other much more than Wade claimed.                                               

[David Von Pein]

12 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

This whole scene is not just crazy Texas bizarre and even humorous.

Not for Jack Ruby it isn't.

 

[David Von Pein]

3 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

What is it with you guys?  Again, none of the voices used Wade's first name when correcting him on the name of the organization.

Right. I sure didn't hear a "Henry" coming from anyone at Wade's conference.

 

[Gene Kelly]

8 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

Thanks David, I was wondering when the FPCC info was first broadcast on TV. According to the reporter, the information on the FPCC actually came from the Dallas Police, not WDSU. 

That makes sense, because the FBI, who of course knew Oswald and had an internal security case file, didn’t even figure out at the Bureau level that Oswald had lived in New Orleans until something ridiculous like 10 p.m. Friday night. 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57690#relPageId=183

The information coming from the DPD suggests that an officer told reporters about the FPCC membership card. I’m not sure where else that info could have come from by 4:00 p.m.

Tom

David has some good information on his website about the news broadcasts that Friday afternoon/evening. Also, a blog from Jefferson Morley's JFK facts (in 2016) by Tom Scully contains the following comments:

Before 7:30 PM EST, NBC News, New York, was in possession of WDSU recordings of the Butler, Stuckey, Oswald radio debate, and possibly of Oswald, Steele, and possibly a third individual handing out FPCC flyers adjacent to the International Trade Mart (ITM) in August 1963.

The biographical information about Oswald, from the Associated Press library, was collated and disseminated by their wire service sometime after 4PM CST in response to the Dallas Police designating him as the “prime suspect”. That information started to be reported on air shortly before 5 PM CST. Previous to the Dallas Police designation, the only information broadcast other than Oswald’s name and age was that he had been in New Orleans and was connected with the FPCC (offered up by interested parties in that city), and NBC’s scoop that he worked in the TSBD which also came to them directly from the Dallas Police.

It appears that the FPCC connection came from New Orleans and WDSU (Butler, INCA, et al).  The 2021 articles in Kennedys and King "Exposing the FPCC" written by Paul Bleau are informative. 

Gene

[Sandy Larsen]

On 2/20/2023 at 3:06 PM, Bill Brown said:

On 2/20/2023 at 6:21 AM, Gene Kelly said:

When Wade stated that Oswald was a member of the “Free Cuba Committee," Ruby corrected him and said, “that's 'Fair Play for Cuba Committee,' Henry.”

On 2/20/2023 at 3:06 PM, Bill Brown said:

No.

 

Yes.

Ruby said:

"And they questioned Henry Wade, "what organization did he belong to," or something. And if I recall, I think Henry Wade answered, "Free Cuba." And I corrected Henry Wade, because listening to the radio or KLIF, it stood out in my mind that it was "Fair Play Cuba." There was a difference. So he said, "Oh yes, Fair Play Cuba," and he corrected that."

 

From the link posted above by Chuck Schwartz.

 

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

The biographical information about Oswald, from the Associated Press library, was collated and disseminated by their wire service sometime after 4PM CST in response to the Dallas Police designating him as the “prime suspect”. That information started to be reported on air shortly before 5 PM CST. Previous to the Dallas Police designation, the only information broadcast other than Oswald’s name and age was that he had been in New Orleans and was connected with the FPCC (offered up by interested parties in that city),

Parties in that city would have been the DRE, funded by the CIA (Joannides).  See Jeff Morley's work.  The very first printed report came from them, blaming it on Castro.  Later in the evening Hal Hendricks of the Miami Herald/Scripps was the expert on hand on LHO, courtesy of David Phillips.

Oswald in New Orleans: Was he a psycho or the target of CIA psychological warfare? > JFK Facts

Edited February 22, 2023 by Ron Bulman

[Gene Kelly]

Sandy:

It's not productive to debate the skeptics here ... they are simply regurgitating the same specious arguments that McAdam's posted many years ago. Jim Garrison provided a more insightful explanation of Wade's Freudian Slip (and Ruby's quick retort), in his October 1967 Playboy interview:

You may remember that on the night of the assassination, Dallas D.A. Henry Wade called a press conference and at one point referred to Oswald as a member of the “Free Cuba Committee” instead of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC). Jack Ruby promptly chimed in to correct him. Ruby was obviously in the jail that night on a dry run prior to his successful murder of Oswald on Sunday - a possibility the Warren Commission never bothered to consider - and could hardly have been eager to draw attention to himself. However, he must have been afraid that if the press reported Oswald was a member of the “Free Cuba Committee,” somebody might begin an investigation of that group and discover its anti–Castro and ultra–right–wing orientation. And so, he risked his cover to set the record straight and protect his fellow conspirators.

Wade unknowingly blundered, describing Oswald as being a member of the "Free Cuba Committee", a CIA-funded, anti-Castro group.  Ruby quickly corrected him, stating “Fair Play Cuba,” ... steering Wade and the press towards Oswald’s one-man NOLA branch of the pro-Castro Fair Play for Cuba Committee ... why would a local strip joint owner know this, much less feel compelled to correct it?  I don't buy the argument that this connection was all over the news ... the NOLA INCA people alerted the news networks to the summer antics of Oswald, but the FPCC was hardly a household name that Friday night.  Oswald had only been in custody for less than 8 hours at that point. for As Paul Bleau pointed out:

 "... not the experts, the police officers, lawyers or the journalists who were the ones trained in active listening and note-taking … no, it was the uneducated, night club owner, gun runner and future patsy killer Jack Ruby".

Eladio Del Valle was active in the "Free Cuba Committee", an organization formed by Sergio Arcacha Smith, both of whom worked for Santo Trafficante. During Garrison's investigation, he tried to interview del Valle to obtain information against Clay Shaw, but del Valle was murdered in February 1967.  Oswald was ignored by the FPCC after several letters from its Director (V. T. Lee), and Oswald never recruited anyone to join the FPCC. The street address of Oswald’s FPCC chapter in New Orleans was ignored or overlooked, likely because his activities were performed undercover for Guy Banister and the CRC. Oswald’s anti–Castro friends from Miami and New Orleans showed up in Dallas in October ... in a “Supplementary Investigation Report” filed on November 23, 1963, by Dallas policeman Buddy Walthers, an aide to Sheriff Bill Decker, Walthers stated:

“I talked to Sorrels, the head of the Dallas Secret Service, I was advised that for the past few months at a house at 3128 Harlandale, some Cubans had been having meetings on the weekends and were possibly connected with the Freedom for Cuba Party of which Oswald was a member.”

Buddy Walthers’ report of the suspicious house on Harlendale mentions the ‘Freedom for Cuba Party' ... a reference to the anti–Castro Free Cuba Committee of which Oswald, Ferrie and certain individuals (including the elusive "second Oswald") were members. This relates to Wade's press conference where he used the phrase “Free Cuba Committee” ... Ruby, who just happened to be there, promptly chimed in to correct him.

Gene

 

[Sandy Larsen]

21 minutes ago, Gene Kelly said:

Sandy:

It's not productive to debate the skeptics here ....

 

Yeah I know.

But I wasn't debating him, I was correcting him. Chuck Schwartz posted a link to testimony proving Bill wrong. And I didn't see anybody picking up on that... so I did.

 

[Bill Brown]

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Yes.

Ruby said:

"And they questioned Henry Wade, "what organization did he belong to," or something. And if I recall, I think Henry Wade answered, "Free Cuba." And I corrected Henry Wade, because listening to the radio or KLIF, it stood out in my mind that it was "Fair Play Cuba." There was a difference. So he said, "Oh yes, Fair Play Cuba," and he corrected that."

 

From the link posted above by Chuck Schwartz.

 

 

You're confused.

 

What exactly is your point?

 

[Bill Brown]

2 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

Sandy:

It's not productive to debate the skeptics here ... they are simply regurgitating the same specious arguments that McAdam's posted many years ago. Jim Garrison provided a more insightful explanation of Wade's Freudian Slip (and Ruby's quick retort), in his October 1967 Playboy interview:

You may remember that on the night of the assassination, Dallas D.A. Henry Wade called a press conference and at one point referred to Oswald as a member of the “Free Cuba Committee” instead of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC). Jack Ruby promptly chimed in to correct him. Ruby was obviously in the jail that night on a dry run prior to his successful murder of Oswald on Sunday - a possibility the Warren Commission never bothered to consider - and could hardly have been eager to draw attention to himself. However, he must have been afraid that if the press reported Oswald was a member of the “Free Cuba Committee,” somebody might begin an investigation of that group and discover its anti–Castro and ultra–right–wing orientation. And so, he risked his cover to set the record straight and protect his fellow conspirators.

Wade unknowingly blundered, describing Oswald as being a member of the "Free Cuba Committee", a CIA-funded, anti-Castro group.  Ruby quickly corrected him, stating “Fair Play Cuba,” ... steering Wade and the press towards Oswald’s one-man NOLA branch of the pro-Castro Fair Play for Cuba Committee ... why would a local strip joint owner know this, much less feel compelled to correct it?  I don't buy the argument that this connection was all over the news ... the NOLA INCA people alerted the news networks to the summer antics of Oswald, but the FPCC was hardly a household name that Friday night.  Oswald had only been in custody for less than 8 hours at that point. for As Paul Bleau pointed out:

 "... not the experts, the police officers, lawyers or the journalists who were the ones trained in active listening and note-taking … no, it was the uneducated, night club owner, gun runner and future patsy killer Jack Ruby".

Eladio Del Valle was active in the "Free Cuba Committee", an organization formed by Sergio Arcacha Smith, both of whom worked for Santo Trafficante. During Garrison's investigation, he tried to interview del Valle to obtain information against Clay Shaw, but del Valle was murdered in February 1967.  Oswald was ignored by the FPCC after several letters from its Director (V. T. Lee), and Oswald never recruited anyone to join the FPCC. The street address of Oswald’s FPCC chapter in New Orleans was ignored or overlooked, likely because his activities were performed undercover for Guy Banister and the CRC. Oswald’s anti–Castro friends from Miami and New Orleans showed up in Dallas in October ... in a “Supplementary Investigation Report” filed on November 23, 1963, by Dallas policeman Buddy Walthers, an aide to Sheriff Bill Decker, Walthers stated:

“I talked to Sorrels, the head of the Dallas Secret Service, I was advised that for the past few months at a house at 3128 Harlandale, some Cubans had been having meetings on the weekends and were possibly connected with the Freedom for Cuba Party of which Oswald was a member.”

Buddy Walthers’ report of the suspicious house on Harlendale mentions the ‘Freedom for Cuba Party' ... a reference to the anti–Castro Free Cuba Committee of which Oswald, Ferrie and certain individuals (including the elusive "second Oswald") were members. This relates to Wade's press conference where he used the phrase “Free Cuba Committee” ... Ruby, who just happened to be there, promptly chimed in to correct him.

Gene

 

 

"It's not productive to debate the skeptics here ... they are simply regurgitating the same specious arguments that McAdam's posted many years ago."

 

No.  The person who was regurgitating specious arguments was you when you said that Ruby corrected Wade with “That's 'Fair Play for Cuba Committee,' Henry.”

 

[Tom Gram]

6 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

Tom

David has some good information on his website about the news broadcasts that Friday afternoon/evening. Also, a blog from Jefferson Morley's JFK facts (in 2016) by Tom Scully contains the following comments:

Before 7:30 PM EST, NBC News, New York, was in possession of WDSU recordings of the Butler, Stuckey, Oswald radio debate, and possibly of Oswald, Steele, and possibly a third individual handing out FPCC flyers adjacent to the International Trade Mart (ITM) in August 1963.

The biographical information about Oswald, from the Associated Press library, was collated and disseminated by their wire service sometime after 4PM CST in response to the Dallas Police designating him as the “prime suspect”. That information started to be reported on air shortly before 5 PM CST. Previous to the Dallas Police designation, the only information broadcast other than Oswald’s name and age was that he had been in New Orleans and was connected with the FPCC (offered up by interested parties in that city), and NBC’s scoop that he worked in the TSBD which also came to them directly from the Dallas Police.

It appears that the FPCC connection came from New Orleans and WDSU (Butler, INCA, et al).  The 2021 articles in Kennedys and King "Exposing the FPCC" written by Paul Bleau are informative. 

Gene

Those articles by Bleau are great, especially Part I - but unless NBC’s Frank McGee made a mistake, it seems like someone in the DPD did leak information about the FPCC. In DVP’s link, McGee states:

”We do know that he has been identified by police in Dallas as chairman of an organization known as Fair Play for Cuba Committee” 

That seems pretty unambiguous, but the use of the word “chairman” is interesting. Could WDSU have sent out biographical info on the AP wire service that McGee thought came from the DPD? I have no idea.

This isn’t really a critical issue, I’d just never heard of the DPD mentioning the FPCC that early so I got curious. I’d also like to know a  source for the earliest press reports mentioning Oswald in New Orleans. 

[Bill Brown]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Yeah I know.

But I wasn't debating him, I was correcting him. Chuck Schwartz posted a link to testimony proving Bill wrong. And I didn't see anybody picking up on that... so I did.

 

 

Please take a moment to say what I was wrong about... and be precise.

I haven't seen you correct me on anything since I've been here.