Confused & looking for opinions on JFK's brain.

[Michael Crane]

Paul O'Connor was there early and helped take JFK out of the body bag and place him onto the autopsy table.

According to O'Connor he states that the cranium was empty.I believe this was backed up by Jerrol Custer? Who said that he could place both hands into Kennedy's cranium?

Than we have James Jenkins who says that he seen Boswell working with it & was surprised to see the weight listed as 1500 grams.

And we also have Humes saying that the brain just fell out into his hands.

What gives my informed forum brothers & sisters?

Edited February 26, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Chuck Schwartz]

I believe Paul O'Connor.  

[Michael Crane]

James Jenkins says that he thinks the brain was removed and was reintroduced later.

[Michael Crane]

12 hours ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

I believe Paul O'Connor.  

Interesting that the description Paul O'Connor gives of the head is about the same as that clay looking picture that you see on the internet (Robert Groden's?)

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Michael Crane]

Look at Boswell's description of what was missing on the head.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Michael Crane]

[Michael Crane]

Edited February 27, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Micah Mileto]

James Curtis Jenkins reportedly did not say anything about the spine being disconnected in his long interviews with David Lifton before Best Evidence came out. When Lifton raised the possibility of head wound alteration to Jenkins, Jenkins said "That's pie in the sky stuff, David". But ever since he spoke to Harrison Livingstone, now the body arrived with the spine severed from the brainstem.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Micah Mileto

[Michael Crane]

You were one of the persons that I was hoping would chime in Micah.

You,Pat Speer or David Josephs.

 

“Jenkins stated that the standard incisions in the cranium required to remove the brain — a ‘skull cap’ (his term for a craniotomy) — were not done, because they were not necessary. He thought this might be explained by prior incisions, meaning that some surgery had been done prior to the autopsy [emphasis added by Horne]. He recalled that the damage to the top of the cranium was much more extensive than the damage to the brain itself, which he found unusual. Jenkins recalled Dr. Boswell asking if there had been surgery at Parkland Hospital. He recalled Dr. Humes saying: ‘The brain fell out in my hands,” as he removed the brain from the body.'”

 

“Jenkins recalled the large posterior hole in JFK’s head, but also recalled a small (approximately 5 mm in diameter) hole in the right temporal bone, just forward of and just above the right ear. He saw this quite early in the autopsy, and recalls that Dr. Finck saw this and commented on it. The circumference was gray, which suggested to Jenkins the passage of a bullet. He said that even Dr. Finck speculated that a bullet might have caused this hole.”

Edited February 27, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Micah Mileto]

9 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

 

Lifton suspected that, since Jenkins and Paul O'Connor were related (cousins or something), Jenkins felt that he needed to "best" O'Connor in some way by expanding his story to add the part about the spine being severed.

[Pat Speer]

4 hours ago, Michael Crane said:

You were one of the persons that I was hoping would chime in Micah.

You,Pat Speer or David Josephs.

 

“Jenkins stated that the standard incisions in the cranium required to remove the brain — a ‘skull cap’ (his term for a craniotomy) — were not done, because they were not necessary. He thought this might be explained by prior incisions, meaning that some surgery had been done prior to the autopsy [emphasis added by Horne]. He recalled that the damage to the top of the cranium was much more extensive than the damage to the brain itself, which he found unusual. Jenkins recalled Dr. Boswell asking if there had been surgery at Parkland Hospital. He recalled Dr. Humes saying: ‘The brain fell out in my hands,” as he removed the brain from the body.'”

 

“Jenkins recalled the large posterior hole in JFK’s head, but also recalled a small (approximately 5 mm in diameter) hole in the right temporal bone, just forward of and just above the right ear. He saw this quite early in the autopsy, and recalls that Dr. Finck saw this and commented on it. The circumference was gray, which suggested to Jenkins the passage of a bullet. He said that even Dr. Finck speculated that a bullet might have caused this hole.”

I talked to Jenkins a number of times at several conferences, and he insisted the back of the head was not missing--that it was shattered but intact under the scalp. Jerrol Custer said much the same thing--that the back of the head was like a shattered eggshell beneath the scalp. 

In Jenkins' case, he said this a number of times until he finally switched the wound on top of the head to low on the back of the head, while under the influence of Chesser. In Custer's case, he was ultimately denounced by Horne et al as a suck-up. He was a brave-truth teller when he didn't recognize the computer-enhanced and cropped x-rays shown him by Mantik, etc. But he was a pathetic coward after being shown the original x-rays, and recognizing his marker on the x-rays. At least according to Horne and his cronies--who have bet their credibility there was a blow-out wound low on the back of the head--in the middle, no less. 

As far as the brain, I have an entire chapter--basically a short book--on JFK's brain injuries. Some have been claiming for decades that the brain was switched etc, when the reality is that the scalp skull and brain injuries outlined in the autopsy report, photos, and x-rays are at odds with the conclusions of the autopsy doctors, Clark Panel et al.. So, no alteration or brain-switching was needed. Just some doctors who would tell the Feds what they wanted to hear. 

[Tom Gram]

4 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

I talked to Jenkins a number of times at several conferences, and he insisted the back of the head was not missing--that it was shattered but intact under the scalp. Jerrol Custer said much the same thing--that the back of the head was like a shattered eggshell beneath the scalp. 

In Jenkins' case, he said this a number of times until he finally switched the wound on top of the head to low on the back of the head, while under the influence of Chesser. In Custer's case, he was ultimately denounced by Horne et al as a suck-up. He was a brave-truth teller when he didn't recognize the computer-enhanced and cropped x-rays shown him by Mantik, etc. But he was a pathetic coward after being shown the original x-rays, and recognizing his marker on the x-rays. At least according to Horne and his cronies--who have bet their credibility there was a blow-out wound low on the back of the head--in the middle, no less. 

As far as the brain, I have an entire chapter--basically a short book--on JFK's brain injuries. Some have been claiming for decades that the brain was switched etc, when the reality is that the scalp skull and brain injuries outlined in the autopsy report, photos, and x-rays are at odds with the conclusions of the autopsy doctors, Clark Panel et al.. So, no alteration or brain-switching was needed. Just some doctors who would tell the Feds what they wanted to hear. 

Pat, what are your thoughts on Horne’s “two brain memorandum” that discusses circumstantial evidence of brain examinations taking place on two different dates with different attendees? Jeremy Gunn found that evidence credible and “very compelling”, and I don’t recall seeing any discussion of that particular angle on your website. 

Gunn thought that RFK wanted the brain interred with the body, which has some testimonial support and would explain the brain going missing. I see a lot of criticism of Stringer’s testimony about the photos but rarely see any discussion about the supporting evidence for exams on two different dates, which when considered in full seems like it’d be a bit harder to debunk. 

[David Josephs]

6 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

So, no alteration or brain-switching was needed.

So why did they lie about the arrival time of the body and what did HUMES/BOSWELL et al do with the body on the table from 6:30 until 8pm?  

The xrays we have are obviously not from that time period as Dr. Mantik has repeatedly shown.

When the doctors claim no damage to the left side of the skull and then claim no sawing was necessary..  I call BS.  

As I've repeatedly shown, brains do NOT fall out of a skull on their own...  brain stems do not cleanly cut themselves...

Pat, your denials of any wrongdoing during the flight and/or that hour and a half is simply too naive for words.  You may have devoted an entire chapter, Horne devoted half a book and actually worked with the evidence.  The words of the witnesses all depends on when they saw the body...  

We didn't know Sibert and O'Neil were not in the morgue with the body for over an hour until many years later... 

What casket with who's body did they carry in at 7:17pm per their own reports/words?  And who was carried in at 6:30-ish?  and again at 8pm?

To claim there was nothing going on with his brain is simply wrong...  the evidence is plain on this fact and easy to follow...  the brain gives away the # of shots and direction... the brain in his head at the time was never used and I doubt even seen by very many other than the 6:30-8pm crowd.

There are things you post that are just so freaking far out of left field I have a hard time seeing that it is still you posting it.  

You honestly think the back of his head was not missing? or you just reporting what Jenkins and others said?

2 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

At least according to Horne and his cronies--who have bet their credibility there was a blow-out wound low on the back of the head--in the middle, no less. 

No bets necessary Pat...  From Parkland and the below explanations to Boswell's drawing and the huge amount of missing skull...  No alteration?

[Pat Speer]

27 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

So why did they lie about the arrival time of the body and what did HUMES/BOSWELL et al do with the body on the table from 6:30 until 8pm?  

The xrays we have are obviously not from that time period as Dr. Mantik has repeatedly shown.

When the doctors claim no damage to the left side of the skull and then claim no sawing was necessary..  I call BS.  

As I've repeatedly shown, brains do NOT fall out of a skull on their own...  brain stems do not cleanly cut themselves...

Pat, your denials of any wrongdoing during the flight and/or that hour and a half is simply too naive for words.  You may have devoted an entire chapter, Horne devoted half a book and actually worked with the evidence.  The words of the witnesses all depends on when they saw the body...  

We didn't know Sibert and O'Neil were not in the morgue with the body for over an hour until many years later... 

What casket with who's body did they carry in at 7:17pm per their own reports/words?  And who was carried in at 6:30-ish?  and again at 8pm?

To claim there was nothing going on with his brain is simply wrong...  the evidence is plain on this fact and easy to follow...  the brain gives away the # of shots and direction... the brain in his head at the time was never used and I doubt even seen by very many other than the 6:30-8pm crowd.

There are things you post that are just so freaking far out of left field I have a hard time seeing that it is still you posting it.  

You honestly think the back of his head was not missing? or you just reporting what Jenkins and others said?

No bets necessary Pat...  From Parkland and the below explanations to Boswell's drawing and the huge amount of missing skull...  No alteration?

Oh please. Your exhibit is nonsense. I go through those witnesses one by one on my website, and show that their statements and testimony are in fact totally at odds with a blow-out wound on the occipital bone, as pushed by Horne and Mantik. To begin with, several of those witnesses were showing the absence of skull after the brain was removed and start from the forehead and move to the back of the head. Groden then took the images of their hands at the back of the head and made it seem like this was where they saw a blow-out wound at the beginning of the autopsy. It's a hoax. For two, Rike never saw the wound but felt no support in that location when he went to move the body and JFK's covered head--this is consistent with the official story--that the skull was badly shattered in that area. For three, your placement on the skull of where these people are pointing is a joke. Just look at Dulaney. He points to the very top of the head, within a few inches of where it is shown in the photos. But you have him pointing to a location several inches below this location. The bigger point, however, is that even you acknowledge that the bulk of these witnesses were pointing to a location above the ear. Mantik pretends the Harper fragment is occipital bone. If so, this 2 1/2 tall bone fragment would stretch well below the ear, and well past the ridge in the photo below. Now, as pointed out by Joe Riley, a neuroanatomist, there is no such ridge on the fragment. So how does Mantik deal with this? Last I heard he mused that Addison's disease had deformed Kennedy's cranial bones. Anything but admit he's full of beans. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Pat Speer

[David Josephs]

15 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Oh please. Your exhibit is nonsense.

Point remains Pat...  you are wrong about the alteration to the head and skull...  Brains don't just fall out.

You're wrong about what I've said and what others say... the blowout was above and BEHIND the ear thru to the back of the skull... NOT what BOSWELL or HUMES described at all which was after whatever they did to the man's head in that 90 minutes prior to the autopsy officially starting.

17 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

For three, your placement on the skull of where these people are pointing is a joke. Just look at Dulaney. He points to the very top of the head, within a few inches of where it is shown in the photos. But you have him pointing to a location several inches below this location.

Your terrible need to be right has allowed you to make minutia into mole hills into mountains...  DULANY is written at the top rear of the head wheretf do you think he is pointing? Or do you not see him leaning forward and pointing his head towards the ground? Is he holding the top rear of his head or the TOP of his head Pat?

And why must you be so freaking snarky about what the rest of us know as fact...  no alteration to the brain of skull? Avoid the multiple casket entries, Avoid the work Humes or someone obviously did to the head between Parkland and 8pm at Bethesda...  

23 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

The bigger point, however, is that even you acknowledge that the bulk of these witnesses were pointing to a location above the ear.

No Pat, that's you, your POV and your inability to see anything that may conflict with your conclusions....  the images show a mixture of behind the ear all the way to the very back middle of the head...  let's look again shall we?

How many are pointing to above the ear as opposed to the right rear of the head?  Stopping being so disingenuine...  it's plain as the nose on your face.  There is only 1 person touching anything that can be considered "above the ear" when the rest are in the back...  You do see I also wrote the names on his profile..

That you can't acknowledge there was alteration done to the man's head is too bad and confuses too many people who respect your body of work as I do.  But you keep doing you Pat and argue in the direct face of the evidence...  a hoax?  Whatever you say Pat...

The images and xrays I post must be wrong as they so strongly conflict with your conclusions...  So everyone else must also be wrong.  Despite you having no clue as to what happens in that 90 minutes which changes the wounds from what was seen at Parkland to the real joke and real point of the matter, what he looked like at 8pm which has no connection at all to the injuries he had at Parkland...  

Everyone.  

Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe about the President with respect to his wounds?
Mr. GREER. His head was all shot, this whole part was all a matter of blood like he had been hit.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the top and right rear side of the head?
Mr. GREER. Yes, sir; it looked like that was all blown off.

Mr. SPECTER - And what, in a general way, did you observe with respect to President Kennedy's condition?
Miss BOWRON - He was very pale, he was lying across Mrs. Kennedy's knee and there seemed to be blood everywhere. When I went around to the other side of the car I saw the condition of his head.
Mr. SPECTER - You saw the condition of his what?
Miss BOWRON - The back of his head.
Mr. SPECTER - And what was that condition?
Miss BOWRON - Well, it was very bad---you know.
Mr. SPECTER - How many holes did you see?
Miss BOWRON - I just saw one large hole.

Miss HENCHLIFFE - Yes; he was very bloody, his head was very bloody when I saw him at the time.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you ever see any wound in any other part of his body?
Miss HENCHLIFFE - When I first saw him---except his head.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you see any wound on any other part of his body?
Miss HENCHLIFFE - Yes; in the neck.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe it, please?
Miss HENCHLIFFE - It was just a little hole in the middle of his neck.
Mr. SPECTER - About how big a hole was it?
Miss HENCHLIFFE - About as big around as the end of my little finger.
Mr. SPECTER - Have you ever had any experience with bullet holes?
Miss HENCHLIFFE - Yes.
Mr. SPECTER - And what did that appear to you to be?
Miss HENCHLIFFE - An entrance bullet hole it looked to me like.   (DJ: HOW IN THE WORLD DOES HE GET AN ENTRANCE WOUND IN THE FRONT OF HIS NECK WITHOUT A SHOT BEING FIRED FROM THE FRONT PAT?)

ACTIVITIES OF PAT HUTTON
ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Several people helped put the President on the cart, and we then proceeded to the Major Surgery section of the Emergency Room to Trauma Room #1. Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound on the back of his head, and was lying there unresponsive.

As soon as we reached the room, a doctor placed an endotracheal tube, and prepared for a tracheostomy. Within a few minutes, there were numerous doctors in the room starting I.V.'s, placing chest tubes and anesthesia with O2. A doctor asked me to place a pressure dressing on the head wound. This was of no use, however, because of the massive opening on the back of the head.

 

Do I also need to post an image of Clint on the limo to prove where he was when he sees this injury? 

How many more statements about the right rear blowout of skull do I need to post?