The Clean Cut Throat Wound

[Gerry Down]

52 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

Oh, Humes was certainly willing to posit a head-shot fragment exiting the throat, but not a bullet, at least for a time. During the autopsy, he pretended he had no idea that a bullet had entered or exited the throat, but, for a time, he was willing to describe the throat wound as an exit point for a head-shot fragment. We know that one of the first two drafts of the autopsy report, in fact, said that a fragment from the head shot exited the throat. 

Later, Humes claimed that he only found out about the throat wound when he spoke with Perry the day after the autopsy. Boswell contradicted himself on aspects of this story once or twice but pretty much stuck to it. In his HSCA interview, Finck chose his words carefully about when he knew of the throat wound. He said he "probably" did not know about it until after the autopsy. When he was then asked where he thought the back-wound bullet had gone by the end of the autopsy, if he didn't know about the throat wound during the autopsy, he said, "It is hard to say now, but I don't know."

 

This sounds awfully like the 3 autopsy doctors didn't want to admit later on that they had an exit point in the throat at the autopsy but mistakenly attributed it to a fragment of the head shot exiting at that point. They didn't want to admit that they failed to realize at the autopsy that the back wound exited at the throat. So they conspired to invent a story that they had never been told at all, before or during the autopsy, that the throat wound was anything other than a tracheotomy wound. This story made all 3 of them seem like less dummies.

 

[Charles Blackmon]

16 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

This sounds awfully like the 3 autopsy doctors didn't want to admit later on that they had an exit point in the throat at the autopsy but mistakenly attributed it to a fragment of the head shot exiting at that point. They didn't want to admit that they failed to realize at the autopsy that the back wound exited at the throat. So they conspired to invent a story that they had never been told at all, before or during the autopsy, that the throat wound was anything other than a tracheotomy wound. This story made all 3 of them seem like less dummies.

 

The back wound did not exit at the throat.

[Micah Mileto]

50 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

This sounds awfully like the 3 autopsy doctors didn't want to admit later on that they had an exit point in the throat at the autopsy but mistakenly attributed it to a fragment of the head shot exiting at that point. They didn't want to admit that they failed to realize at the autopsy that the back wound exited at the throat. So they conspired to invent a story that they had never been told at all, before or during the autopsy, that the throat wound was anything other than a tracheotomy wound. This story made all 3 of them seem like less dummies.

 

The diary of George Barnum says they concluded by the early morning hours that a bullet had exited the throat.

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

The diary of George Barnum says they concluded by the early morning hours that a bullet had exited the throat.

They didn’t have a choice.  The Magic Bullet reared its ugly head during Sibert’s call to the FBI lab — one bullet had to account for two wounds.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[Paul Cummings]

I'm surprised Specter didn't include the missed shot richocheting off the curb and striking JFK in the throat. I mean if you're going to go all out on two shots why not three? Specter never reached his full potential. 

[Gerry Down]

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

The diary of George Barnum says they concluded by the early morning hours that a bullet had exited the throat.

So by the early hours of Nov 23rd 1963, the autopsy doctors may have been unsure as to whether a bullet fragment from the head wound or a whole bullet from the back wound had exited out the throat. That would explain the three drafts of the autopsy report. Seems by the third report Humes had settled on the idea that it was most likely the bullet from the back wound that had exited out the throat.

I don't see anything sinister in Humes trying to get Perry to change his opinion that the throat wound was an entrance wound. Humes did not want a false story circulating in the press that contradicted his autopsy findings. 

[Micah Mileto]

12 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

 

I think Doug Horne's theory of a "half secret" second draft of the autopsy report is probably just wrong. The idea of a fragment exiting the throat is probably an independant invention of the FBI. Maybe.

[Micah Mileto]

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

They didn’t have a choice.  The Magic Bullet reared its ugly head during Sibert’s call to the FBI lab — one bullet had to account for two wounds.

Yes, but it's also possible that Humes called Perry during the later stages of the autopsy, around midnight to 1:30 AM.

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

Yes, but it's also possible that Humes called Perry during the later stages of the autopsy, around midnight to 1:30 AM.

The call to the FBI Lab preceded Humes’ call to Perry (iirc).

[Michael Griffith]

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

The diary of George Barnum says they concluded by the early morning hours that a bullet had exited the throat.

Barnum either got his times mixed up or was fabricating. Sibert and O'Neill wrote at 2:00 AM, 11/23, that the doctors had determined that the back wound had no exit point. Numerous other eyewitness accounts confirm this.

[Micah Mileto]

2 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

 

Are you suggesting Barnum fabricated the date on his journal, which was before the existence of a back wound was revealed to the public?

Edited June 6, 2023 by Micah Mileto

[Michael Griffith]

And let's remember that the Sibert and O'Neill 11/23/63 report on the autopsy and the FBI summary report stated that the bullet entered the back at a downward angle of at least 45 degrees. 

Let's also remember that we know from the declassified transcript of the WC's secret 1/27/64 executive session that chief counsel Rankin referred to an autopsy document that said a fragment exited the throat.

Also, when Congressman Boggs commented during that session that he had "read" that the back-wound bullet only penetrated a "finger's length," Rankin replied, "That is what they first said."

Finally, it bears repeating that, to its great credit, the ARRB got Humes to admit that he not only burned his autopsy notes but that he also burned the first draft of the autopsy report. Until then, Humes had gotten away with claiming that he had "only" burned his autopsy notes. 

 

[Paul Cummings]

5 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

And let's remember that the Sibert and O'Neill 11/23/63 report on the autopsy and the FBI summary report stated that the bullet entered the back at a downward angle of at least 45 degrees. 

Let's also remember that we know from the declassified transcript of the WC's secret 1/27/64 executive session that chief counsel Rankin referred to an autopsy document that said a fragment exited the throat.

Also, when Congressman Boggs commented during that session that he had "read" that the back-wound bullet only penetrated a "finger's length," Rankin replied, "That is what they first said."

Finally, it bears repeating that, to its great credit, the ARRB got Humes to admit that he not only burned his autopsy notes but that he also burned the first draft of the autopsy report. Until then, Humes had gotten away with claiming that he had "only" burned his autopsy notes. 

 

I always found it interesting he burned the notes because of the blood on it. Didn't seem to stop Jackie from keeping her pink outfit on after riding through Dealey Plaza. Humes is a disgrace.

[Michael Griffith]

20 hours ago, Paul Cummings said:

I always found it interesting he burned the notes because of the blood on it. Didn't seem to stop Jackie from keeping her pink outfit on after riding through Dealey Plaza. Humes is a disgrace.

Jeremy Gunn nailed Humes on this phony excuse. He pointed out to Humes that some of Boswell's notes had blood on them too but were not burned. From there, after further questioning, Gunn got Humes to admit that he had also burned the first draft of the autopsy report, as I mentioned in my previous reply. 

The disappearance of Finck's autopsy notes is also revealing. Just think: Who would have stolen those notes, at Bethesda no less, while Finck was washing up after the autopsy, and why? Finck was the only expert in the room, the only board-certified forensic pathologist at the autopsy. He had been called in from the AFIP to help with the autopsy. He was also a Lt. Colonel in the U.S. Army. Just try to imagine who would have had the nerve, not to mention the motive, to steal Finck's notes while he washing up after the autopsy. 

[Paul Cummings]

29 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

Jeremy Gunn nailed Humes on this phony excuse. He pointed out to Humes that some of Boswell's notes had blood on them too but were not burned. From there, after further questioning, Gunn got Humes to admit that he had also burned the first draft of the autopsy report, as I mentioned in my previous reply. 

The disappearance of Finck's autopsy notes is also revealing. Just think: Who would have stolen those notes, at Bethesda no less, while Finck was washing up after the autopsy, and why? Finck was the only expert in the room, the only board-certified forensic pathologist at the autopsy. He had been called in from the AFIP to help with the autopsy. He was also a Lt. Colonel in the U.S. Army. Just try to imagine who would have had the nerve, not to mention the motive, to steal Finck's notes while he washing up after the autopsy. 

Not trying to change the discussion but believe it's worth including an obvious fact. LBJ was in the Navy which likely pressured (IMO) some of what was happening around Bethesda.