Why Col. L. Fletcher Prouty's Critics Are Wrong

[Jeff Carter]

Through the 80s into the early 90s, Berlet published in Guardian, a NYC based publication which perfectly conforms to the description from Esquire  - “tiny, left-wing New York weekly”. 

Here's some more context:

Daniel Brandt, founder of Namebase,^[14] Google Watch, and Wikipedia Watch, removed Berlet from his Board of Advisors in 1991 when Berlet refused to sit on the same Board which included, in Berlet's words, "LaRouche-defender Fletcher Prouty." Prouty, a retired Air Force colonel whose intelligence career stretched back to accompanying President Franklin Roosevelt to the Teheran conference, was allegorically portrayed as the mysterious “Man X”^[15] by Donald Southerland in  Oliver Stone's film, JFK. Berlet considered Prouty a fascist. Brandt retorted, "When it came to making a choice between Prouty and Berlet, it was a rather easy decision for me to make."^[16] Berlet further sought to undermine Brandt by convincing three others to quit, adding "He (Brandt) was mad"^[17] but admitting "On the other hand, Brandt is highly critical of the LaRouchians."^[18]

^{https://www.conservapedia.com/Wikipedia:The_Daniel_Brandt_controversy}

  Portraying Prouty as a "fascist" or a "LaRouchian" is frankly ridiculous, and a bit fanatical. 

[Michael Griffith]

23 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Michael, we had reason to pursue Spotlight because it eventually morphed into America Free Press, Willis Carto's final act as it were, which is alive on the internet today. 

General Willoughby closes one particularly lengthy diatribe he shared with his good friend, DCI Allen Dulles with a quote of fascist philosopher, Oswald Spengler, with, “Untergand de Abendlandes” in reference to Spengler’s “Decline of the West.” Without notes, (Francis Parker] Yockey wrote his first book, Imperium: The Philosophy of History and Politics, in Brittas Bay, Ireland over the winter and early spring of 1948. Clearly, he shared Willoughby’s admiration of Spengler in Imperium, a Spenglerian critique of 19th century materialism and rationalism dedicated to “the hero of the twentieth century.” It is believed that he meant Adolf Hitler. Holocaust Denier Carto of the Liberty Lobby, and later owner of the American Mercury, as well as the American Free Press, took on the task of publishing Yockey’s Imperium when Britain’s infamous fascist, Sir Oswald Mosley failed to do so because of personality clashes with Yockey. The reader is reminded that ad man, propagandist H. Keith Thompson, long-time protégé of Yockey, handled public relations for Lee Oswald’s mother, Marguerite Claverie Oswald in 1964. It has been reported that Willis Carto was Yockey’s last visitor in jail before he bit down on the cyanide pill he had tucked away rather than be interrogated by American authorities. . . .

Maguire’s magazine was eventually sold off to a shadow company of Willis Carto with General Edwin Walker remaining on as military advisor and partial owner. It was Carto who single handedly brought Holocaust Denial to the US around the same time that McCarthy and his team, including Roy Cohn, launched their red-baiting. It cannot be ignored that Carto’s final propaganda sheet, American Free Press provided a venue for a number of reporters and journalists who in the mid 2000s would infiltrate the Kennedy assassination research efforts under the guise of truth seeking that they sold as being in alignment with John F. Kennedy’s philosophy and policies had he lived to serve out his term. In fact, history insists that contributors to AFP are closely aligned with Carto’s legacy, not that of John F. Kennedy. . . .

When Donald Trump was elected president, a number of leaders from the alt-right movement assumed important advisory positions, including those responsible for creating a platform for the “alt-right,” the online publication Breitbart News. In a piece titled, “An Establishment Conservatives’ Guide to the Alt-Right” published in 2016, the Italian philosopher and occultist Julius Evola is touted as “one of the thinkers in whose writings the origins of the alternative right can be found.” Evola, identified earlier in this book, was the intellectual and spiritual inspiration of leading Italian fascists, including “The Black Prince” Julius Borghese and Stefano delle Chiaie who were inclined toward murder and blackmail as political solutions. As noted, Evola was also an early admirer of American fascist Francis Parker Yockey whose fervent adherent, H. Keith Thompson, would serve a similar role as that of Isaac Don Levine when he became a publicist for Marguerite Oswald. Yockey’s writings were advanced almost exclusively by American propagandist Willis Carto, philosophically aligned in 1963 with Rev. Gerald L K. Smith, a cofounder of the America First Committee. Carto would leave as his final legacy, the American Free Press where Patrick Buchanan found a well-primed audience. . . .

Journalist and historian of extreme right-wing movements in the United States, Chip Berlet noted that Trump’s vision of America has been narrowed to focus on and to reflect the ideas of [Steve] Bannon and [Bill] Regnery. Bill Regnery’s uncle Henry had also published Human Events, a journal alleged by historian James Ziegler in Red Scare Racism and Cold War Black Radicalism to have been used by the CIA for smear campaigns. Human Events rapidly evolved as one of the standard-bearers for American conservatism, and continues to provide space to far-right provocateurs including Buchanan, and Ann Coulter who once dismissed child immigrants filmed crying under the stress of desperate conditions imposed during the Trump administration as whining actors, admonishing the president to “not fall for it.” Steve Bannon, referred to by Berlet, who for eight months served as Chief Strategist and Senior Counsel to President Trump, was executive chairman of the alt-right platform, Breitbart News until 2018.

After the campaign, and the 2016 presidential election, it became clear that the vision of the original America First and “the destruction of the administrative state," a phrase Washington Post opinion columnist Greg Sargent suggests was shorthand for “national regulations and international commitments created by allegedly unaccountable bureaucrats who are supposedly disenfranchising U. S. workers and weakening American sovereignty,” had once again seeped into the political psyche.' @Coup in Dallas

Further evidence of the continuity, the rolling coup of 1963 — can be found here: "America First with Sebastian Gorka", former Hungarian policy adviser and politician, alleged member of the neo-National Socialist Vitenzi Rend, and President Trump's Deputy Assistant and senior counter=terrorism advisor.  A well-sourced analysis by Human Rights First — whose board includes Kerry Kennedy, daughter of RFK and president of his Center for Human Rights —  provides further understanding of the close ties Mr. Gorka maintains with his motherland, Hungary. This also provides insight into the mindset that might possibly influence those defenders of Hungarian convicted assassin Lajos Marton — the centerpiece of recent debate and threat. @Michael Griffith 

Public supporter of the neo-fascist paramilitary “Hungarian Guard”

When asked in 2007 whether he supported Jobbik’s plan to create a paramilitary militia during a televised interview, Gorka responded affirmatively “that is so.”19 During the show, a headline banner ran underneath Gorka which read “UDK [Gorka’s new political party] Supports the Hungarian Guard.” The UDK later reiterated Gorka’s support for the militia on its website. . . . 

In his television appearance, while distancing the UDK itself from Jobbik’s plan to create the Hungarian Guard, Gorka defended his organization’s support by noting that the Guard would serve “a big societal need.”

. . . Multiple leaders1 of the modern-day “Historical Vitézi Rend” and other Hungarian politicians unaffiliated with the group have stated that Gorka is an official member of the organization.2 The “Historical Vitézi Rend” is a reconstitution of the World War II era “Vitézi Rend” (“Order of Heroes”), which Hungarian historians describe as a virulently nationalist, antisemitic group originally established by Admiral Miklos Horthy, a self-avowed antisemite and collaborator with Hitler.3 The State Department designated the Vitézi Rend as having been “under the direction of the National Socialist Government of Germany during World War II,”

. . . When he [Gorka] appeared on U.S. television ... with the medal of the Vitez Order ... it made me really proud.”8 Several people interviewed by NBC in the Hungarian town where Gorka ran for mayor in 2006 said it was well- known that Gorka was a member of the Vitezi Rend, and that he made no effort to hide his membership while campaigning.

https://humanrightsfirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/hrf-factsheet-gorka.pdf

. 

Leslie, very interesting stuff. I don't agree with your conclusions about some of the conservative figures you mention, but I definitely agree with you about The Spotlight. Prouty's close and prolonged association with Carto, Liberty Lobby, and the IHR discredit him as a source and should cause us to repudiate him. 

And, just so you know, I'm not a huge Trump supporter. I think he did many good things for the country, but I believe he should have been prosecuted for purposely waiting to tell the 1/6 rioters to stand down. I have never thought highly of him as a person. I regard him as emotionally and morally unfit for high office. He was my fourth pick among the GOP candidates in the 2016 Republican primary (my picks were Carson, Rubio, Kasich, and then Trump--come to think of it, I would have voted for J. Bush over Trump if it had been a contest between the two). 

I think it is quite a reach to impugn tens of millions of Republicans because of a very small handful of unsavory people among them. There are equal numbers of unsavory characters among the Democrats too. 

To me, it makes no sense to drag modern politics into discussions on the JFK case. Plenty of conservatives believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy (and not a Soviet one). As I've said, when we drag politics into the JFK case, we risk alienating and driving away a large part of our reading audience. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Leslie Sharp]

56 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

Leslie, very interesting stuff. I don't agree with your conclusions about some of the conservative figures you mention, but I definitely agree with you about The Spotlight. Prouty's close and prolonged association with Carto, Liberty Lobby, and the IHR discredit him as a source and should cause us to repudiate him. 

And, just so you know, I'm not a huge Trump supporter. I think he did many good things for the country, but I believe he should have been prosecuted for purposely waiting to tell the 1/6 rioters to stand down. I have never thought highly of him as a person. I regard him as emotionally and morally unfit for high office. He was my fourth pick among the GOP candidates in the 2016 Republican primary (my picks were Carson, Rubio, Kasich, and then Trump--come to think of it, I would have voted for J. Bush over Trump if it had been a contest between the two). 

I think it is quite a reach to impugn tens of millions of Republicans because of a very small handful of unsavory people among them. There are equal numbers of unsavory characters among the Democrats too. 

To me, it makes no sense to drag modern politics into discussions on the JFK case. Plenty of conservatives believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy (and not a Soviet one). As I've said, when we drag politics into the JFK case, we risk alienating and driving away a large part of our reading audience. 

Thanks, Michael.  I consider Trump a symptom, not the cause of what I believe is a crisis, a crossroads for our democracy. In some strange way, perhaps we should be grateful that he lanced what many consider a festering wound inflicted in 1963. For that reason, I disagree with you. The elected president of the US in 1963 was violently removed in Dallas for political reasons.  Suggesting we, the community, shouldn't address the prevailing politics of 1963 and how they manifest in 2023 is naive at best.  We debate the coup in context of the Cold War. Why wouldn't we also debate the coup in context of current events? Had we done so in 1970 — during Watergate — just think how further along we would be in the Kennedy investigation? Or 1980, the Reagan/Bush years, Iran-Contra and the Walker/Bush dynasties? What might we have learned about Kennedy's assassination had we considered it in context then? 1990, 2000, 2010? etc. etc. Are you not, unconsciously, attempting to interfere with solving this cold case murder investigation by insisting we leave politics aside?  It was a political hit.

With that, would you speak to the issues raised in my response, i.e., how Carto's American Free Press infiltrated the "JFK research community"? Did those who contributed to the early issues meet L. Fletcher Prouty?

Why has General Edwin Walker's history with Willis Carto been buried for decades?

How does resurrection of the "America First" movement fit in?

And specifically, Sebastian Gorka, Hungarian, who picked up the "America First" gauntlet, seems entirely comfortable with neo-fascists ruling his homeland? Do we know whether Gorka came in contact with Lajos Marton over the years?

Or, we can debate Col. Fletcher Prouty out of context of these additional questions?

 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Michael Griffith]

2 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

Through the 80s into the early 90s, Berlet published in Guardian, a NYC based publication which perfectly conforms to the description from Esquire  - “tiny, left-wing New York weekly”. 

Here's some more context:

Daniel Brandt, founder of Namebase,^[14] Google Watch, and Wikipedia Watch, removed Berlet from his Board of Advisors in 1991 when Berlet refused to sit on the same Board which included, in Berlet's words, "LaRouche-defender Fletcher Prouty." . . .

  Portraying Prouty as a "fascist" or a "LaRouchian" is frankly ridiculous, and a bit fanatical. 

Actually, not it's not, not at all. Again, he appeared on Liberty Lobby's fascist, Holocaust-denying radio show TEN TIMES IN FOURS YEARS. He recommended that people read the pro-N-azi, Holocaust-denying Spotlight. He had one of his books published by the IHR, another pro-fascist, pro-N-azi, Holocaust-denying group. He blamed high oil prices on the Israelis. He refused to condemn Carto's denial of the Holocaust. In fact, he praised Carto and Marcellus for having the vision and courage to republish his book. 

Why oh why can't you just admit the truth about Prouty? If Prouty was not a fascist, he certainly felt comfortable associating with fascists and accepting money from fascists for years. 

My heavens, if Trump, Steve Bannon, and Bill Regnery had spent so many years palling around with and profiting from Holocaust deniers and neo-N-azis, you guys wouldn't listen to any excuses for such conduct. Nor would I. 

As some here know, I was raised Jewish for part of my childhood; I speak Hebrew (learned in college, then at DLI, and then in Israel); I lived in Israel for a short time; and I'm proudly pro-Israeli and pro-Jewish. I happen to read Israeli newspapers fairly frequently. Several Israeli newspapers argued that Steve Bannon, far from being an anti-Semite, was a strong ally of Israel. The Israeli newspaper Ha Aretz reported on one Jewish group's findings (the Zionist Organization of America, or ZOA) about Bannon:

     "ZOA’s own experience and analysis of Breitbart articles confirms Mr. Bannon’s and Breitbart’s friendship and fair-mindedness towards Israel and the Jewish people,” the organization said in a statement. "To accuse Mr. Bannon and Breitbart of anti-Semitism is Orwellian. In fact, Breitbart bravely fights against anti-Semitism.” The organization added that it "welcomes" Bannon's appointment and wishes him success.

About two years ago I looked into the charge that Breitbart was anti-Israeli and/or anti-Semitic. I have been an occasional reader of Breitbart, but not a regular one. When I heard the claim that Breitbart was anti-Semitic, I decided to investigate it because I had never seen any indication of this in the Breitbart articles I'd read. When I checked, I found no evidence whatsoever that Breitbart is anti-Semitic or anti-Israeli. Indeed, Breitbart is strongly pro-Israeli. I defy anyone to search the Breitbart site and find me one article that is the slightest bit anti-Israeli. And make no mistake, you will NEVER find an anti-Semite who is pro-Israeli.

As for Trump, he has always been strongly pro-Israeli. Part of his family is Jewish. He has a daughter who is Jewish and Jewish grandchildren. He has invested in Israel. He was the one president who had the courage to move our embassy to Israel's capital city. Perhaps this is why public opinion polls in Israel have consistently showed Trump more popular in Israel than Obama. The substantial majority of Israelis viewed, and still view, Trump as a great friend and backer of Israel. In fact, Trump's popularity in Israel rose during his presidency. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[W. Niederhut]

23 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

Based on your previous posts in defense of the deranged claims made by the 9/11 Truthers, my handlers told me, "This guy W. Niederhut looks like a prime candidate to come to Prouty's defense.

Huh, Griffith?  What additional bunk are you spewing now?

It's a shame that Leslie Sharp, or anyone on this forum, still takes your disinformation seriously.

"Deranged claims by 9/11 Truthers?"  Are you referring to the scientific data of the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth?

Do tell us what is "deranged" about their scientific data. 

Have you ever studied the academic credentials of the many scholars, scientists, and engineers involved in the 9/11 Truth movement?

What is it about the free fall collapses of WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 that you still don't understand?

What abruptly demolished the steel sub-structures of the Twin Towers and WTC7 on 9/11, allowing the steel towers to rapidly crumble to the ground at a rate approximating the acceleration of gravity?

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Mark Knight]

Guilt by association.

Where did I first learn of this tactic?

As a child in Sunday School. The Pharisees in the New Testament used guilt by association in their attempts to turn their followers against Jesus of Nazareth. They accused this Jesus of hanging out with tax collectors [notoriously corrupt individuals], harlots [notoriously immoral people], and "winebibbers" [notoriously intoxicated people].

When you can't counter their arguments, go after their character. And if you can't determine their character, attack the characters of those with whom they stay in proximity.

Because 100% of the time, contact with these people will convert everyone, without exception, to the character flaws of those in their orbit. [Sarcasm, in case you missed it.]

[Paul Brancato]

Michael Griffith - you WILL find people who are not anti-semitic who are very critical of Israel, like myself and many of my Jewish friends. You seem to conflate the two positions.

[Michael Griffith]

Well, based on many of the comments in this thread, the bar for being considered a valid source has now been lowered by several feet. The new standard seems to be that as long the person claims that JFK was killed because he was going to totally abandon the Vietnam War after the election, and that Ed Lansdale was part of the assassination plot, that person can do the following and still be considered a credible source:

-- Appear on an anti-Semitic, Holocaust-denying radio show, not just once or twice, but 10 times over a four-year period (after all, the anti-Semitic, Holocaust-denying group that produced the show never admitted they were anti-Semitic and Holocaust deniers!)

-- Reply "Well, shucks, I'm no authority in that area" when asked about Holocaust denial

-- Recommend that people read an anti-Semitic, Holocaust-denying newspaper published by an anti-Semitic, Holocaust-denying group

-- Have a book published by an anti-Semitic, neo-N-azi, Holocaust-denying group (gee, it was only a small printing run after all--of course it was, because the group catered to a very small audience)

-- Publicly praise two prominent Holocaust deniers for having the vision and courage to have their Holocaust-denying publishing company republish his book

-- Claim that the Israelis were responsible for high oil prices

-- Viciously attack critics of a known cult and the crook who founded it (that's right, he can't attack the cult and its sleazy founder; he can only attack those who criticize the cult and its founder)

-- Declare that he would not be a bit surprised to learn that the "Secret Team" assassinated Princess Diana (of course, makes perfect sense)

-- Take seriously the claim that Winston Churchill had FDR poisoned ("the British are coming!")

-- Suggest for years and years that he was sent on a sinister trip to the South Pole during the assassination to ensure he did not notice or change the lax security arrangements for the Dallas motorcade, but then back-peddle on this suggestion when questioned about it by a federal board

-- Claim, in writing, that he possessed notes that he'd taken during an alleged "stand down" phone call from the 112th MI Group, and even pretend to quote from those notes, but then fail to produce the putatively historic notes when asked to do so by a federal board.

Surely such a fraud and nutjob must have "remarkable" insights about the Vietnam War as well. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Michael Griffith]

20 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Huh, Griffith?  What additional bunk are you spewing now?

It's a shame that Leslie Sharp, or anyone on this forum, still takes your disinformation seriously.

"Deranged claims by 9/11 Truthers?"  Are you referring to the scientific data of the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth?

Do tell us what is "deranged" about their scientific data. 

Have you ever studied the academic credentials of the many scholars, scientists, and engineers involved in the 9/11 Truth movement?

What is it about the free fall collapses of WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 that you still don't understand?

What abruptly demolished the steel sub-structures of the Twin Towers and WTC7 on 9/11, allowing the steel towers to rapidly crumble to the ground at a rate approximating the acceleration of gravity?

Look, I'm still mad at your for blowing my cover. How dare you. I had a good gig going.

However, my handlers have asked me to please get you to keep defending the 9/11 Truther claims in this JFK subforum, so I should thank you for your reply. Thank you.

Since you accept the 9/11 Truther claims, surely you likewise recognize that the Moon landings were as phony as a three-dollar bill. Any thoughts?

Finally, my handlers have asked that I try to get you to continue to defend Prouty and to keep claiming that all the documentation of his sleazy associations and nutty claims is just "McAdams/CIA disinformation." I'm counting on you.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[W. Niederhut]

Folks,

       Should we report Michael Griffith to the ADL for his ongoing defamation of Col. L. Fletcher Prouty? 🙄

       Meanwhile, while we're all waiting for Michael Griffith to stop deflecting and answer my questions about who pays him to sit around all day posting debunked disinformation about 9/11, Col. L. Fletcher Prouty,  NSAM263, and the JFK assassination, I thought it would be worth posting Prouty's own comments almost 30 years ago about the false allegations that he was a right-wing anti-Semite, Holocaust denier, etc.

        These are from Len Osanic's Prouty.org website-- a useful resource for debunking Michael Griffith's bunk.

https://prouty.org/

        As I posted a few days ago, Michael Griffith seems to be walking in the footsteps of the CIA guys who have been posting defamatory nonsense about Prouty for the past 30 years.

        Interestingly, Prouty asked the same question about his defamer, David Fuhrman, that I recently asked Michael Griffith-- "Who is paying him to write this nonsense?  Who is he working for?"

Col. L. Fletcher Prouty Responds to Accusations of Involvement in Right Wing Extremist Groups

Interview Date: April 3, 1996

"Esquire magazine published an article, in which they just made up these things, I've never written for Liberty Lobby. I've spoken as a commercial speaker, they paid me to speak and then I left. They print a paragraph or two of my speech same as they would of anybody else, but I've never joined them. I don't subscribe to their newspaper, I never go to their own meetings, but they had a national convention at which asked me to speak and they paid me very, very well. I took my money and went home and that's it". I go to the meeting, I go home, I don't join.

That sole speech was years ago and was no different than the speech I gave at the Holocaust Memorial Conference. I spoke my own words and ideas. I do admit to having been a rather active public speaker for all types of audiences, on a commercial except for Rotary, They're gratuitous from my point of view.

"The funny thing was two months earlier I had spoken at the Holocaust Conference for the second annual meeting of the Holocaust Group which I learned later the Liberty Lobby is completely opposed to. Dr. Littel, of the Holocaust Memorial organization invited me to attend and make a few comments,as others were requested.

Col. Prouty has been asked to attend at the Holocaust Conference again later this year !

Well, they put all this in this Esquire magazine but did it all backwards, as though I was a member, writing with these people or joining them. The only club I've joined is the Rotary Club !".

The attempt of character assassination is a sign you have become a small threat. Others, at the levels I know of, have played up that as though I had been converted to something. It is just their "gentlemanly" tactic of dealing with people they can't handle otherwise.. In fact it is a CIA characteristic trait...as I well know. When they can't handle you, they attack your character.

This classic was found on the internet; " An essay written from a leftist perspective by Chip Berlet, deals with the ties, and Mark Lane, and the extreme right-wing paranoid Liberty Lobby. Nothing here shows Prouty to be a National Socialist or an anti-Semite, but shouldn't he show better judgment in whom he associates with?"

This implies I associate with National Socialists, or why else write it!

The writings of Furhmann, Perry, Berlet, Posner, etc. are slick, cleverly written, but not based in the true facts. I wonder what they do for a living? where they work? Who pays them to write? My credentials are laid out for all to see.

L.Fletcher Prouty

Edited April 18, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Michael Griffith said:

Since you accept the 9/11 Truther claims, surely you likewise recognize that the Moon landings were as phony as a three-dollar bill. Any thoughts?

.

Griffith,

     Which 9/11 academicians and scientists and research findings are you referring to here?  Specify for us.

     Have you studied the scientific evidence that WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 were demolished by explosives on 9/11?

     It's not even a theory.  It's a scientific fact.

     As for claims that the "Moon landings were phony," why do you imagine that they have anything to do with the serious research about 9/11 and the JFK assassination?

     Claiming that conspiracy theories are monolithic is one of the most moronic tricks in the CIA propaganda playbook.

     No one with an IQ above room temperature believes that conspiracy theories are monolithic.

     You're on the wrong forum.  People here are educated.

[Michael Griffith]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Col. L. Fletcher Prouty Responds to Accusations of Involvement in Right Wing Extremist Groups

Interview Date: April 3, 1996

Let's take a look at Prouty's response to the Esquire article:

"Esquire magazine published an article, in which they just made up these things, I've never written for Liberty Lobby. I've spoken as a commercial speaker, they paid me to speak and then I left. They print a paragraph or two of my speech same as they would of anybody else, but I've never joined them. I don't subscribe to their newspaper, I never go to their own meetings, but they had a national convention at which asked me to speak and they paid me very, very well. I took my money and went home and that's it". I go to the meeting, I go home, I don't join.

Why didn't Prouty mention that he appeared on Liberty Lobby's anti-Semitic, Holocaust-denying radio show 10 times over a four-year period (as documented by the ADL)? 

Why didn't he mention that did not just speak at the convention but also took part in a panel discussion that included Bo Gritz?

Why didn't he mention that he recommended Liberty Lobby's newspaper The Spotlight, as proudly documented by the newspaper itself?

If John McAdams had spoken at a Liberty Lobby convention, appeared on their radio show 10 times, and recommended The Spotlight, would you be satisfied with the answer of "oh, shucks, I just spoke because they invited me and paid me, and then I went home. And never mind about the radio program and recommending the newspaper"?

That sole speech was years ago and was no different than the speech I gave at the Holocaust Memorial Conference. I spoke my own words and ideas. I do admit to having been a rather active public speaker for all types of audiences, on a commercial except for Rotary, They're gratuitous from my point of view.

That's a lie. Are we to believe that when he spoke at the Holocaust Memorial Conference, he gave a speech about the "Secret Team" and blamed the Israelis for high oil prices?! That's the speech he gave at the Liberty Lobby convention. I seriously doubt that he made the same comments at both gatherings. 

"The funny thing was two months earlier I had spoken at the Holocaust Conference for the second annual meeting of the Holocaust Group which I learned later the Liberty Lobby is completely opposed to. Dr. Littel, of the Holocaust Memorial organization invited me to attend and make a few comments,as others were requested.

Oh, please. So Prouty only "learned later" that Liberty Lobby denied the Holocaust?! He had no idea about this during his years of associating with Carto and Marcellus, or when he talked with Carto and Marcellus about having the IHR republish The Secret Team? He never figured this out during the four-year period when he was appearing on Liberty Lobby's radio show, hosted by Holocaust-denier Tom Valentine, every five months?! Really?

Col. Prouty has been asked to attend at the Holocaust Conference again later this year!

And I'd bet the farm that if this really happened, it was because the Holocaust conference organizers had no knowledge of his close, prolonged relationship with Carto, Marcellus, Liberty Lobby, and the IHR. 

By the way, why didn't Prouty give a date for the speech he supposedly gave at the Holocaust Memorial Conference? I spent about 45 minutes Googling Holocaust conferences held in the 1980s and 1990s. I found articles/records for about two dozen such conferences, and I didn't find any mention of Prouty as speaking at any of them. I'll keep searching. 

Well, they put all this in this Esquire magazine but did it all backwards, as though I was a member, writing with these people or joining them. The only club I've joined is the Rotary Club!"

See above.

Also, why didn't Prouty address his disgraceful dodge that he gave when he was asked about Carto's Holocaust denial? 

The attempt of character assassination is a sign you have become a small threat. Others, at the levels I know of, have played up that as though I had been converted to something. It is just their "gentlemanly" tactic of dealing with people they can't handle otherwise.. In fact it is a CIA characteristic trait...as I well know. When they can't handle you, they attack your character.

So the ADL and Chip Berlet were part of a CIA operation to discredit Prouty? Did they make Prouty appear on the Liberty Lobby's radio show 10 times in four years? Did they hypnotize him to recommend The Spotlight? Did they use mind-control drugs to get him to say "I'm no authority in that area" when asked about Holocaust denial? 

This classic was found on the internet; "An essay written from a leftist perspective by Chip Berlet, deals with the ties, and Mark Lane, and the extreme right-wing paranoid Liberty Lobby. Nothing here shows Prouty to be a National Socialist or an anti-Semite, but shouldn't he show better judgment in whom he associates with?" This implies I associate with National Socialists, or why else write it!

But Prouty did associate with neo-N-azis and Holocaust deniers. This is beyond dispute.

And where's the link to this essay? I searched for this essay every which way and could not find it. I searched for six verbatim excerpts with quotation marks from Prouty's quote from the essay and nothing came up. 

If the essay is real, I suspect Berlet wrote it before he learned of Prouty's "I'm no authority in that area" answer when asked about Holocaust denial, Prouty's argument that Israel was to blame for high oil prices, Prouty's numerous appearances on Liberty Lobby's radio show, and his having one of his books republished by the IHR, etc.

The writings of Furhmann, Perry, Berlet, Posner, etc. are slick, cleverly written, but not based in the true facts. I wonder what they do for a living? where they work? Who pays them to write? My credentials are laid out for all to see.

So Prouty didn't know what Berlet did for a living or where he worked? Really? He didn't know that Berlet was a fairly prominent ultra-liberal investigative journalist with stainless anti-fascist credentials? Really? Do you believe that? 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[W. Niederhut]

Does anyone have a reference link for Michael Griffith's oft-repeated slander that Prouty was "anti-Semitic?"

I'd like to study the specific details of Prouty's alleged "anti-Semitism." 

The Washington Post did publish a letter from Prouty in 1997 describing Prouty's observations about some oil pipelines in Palestine that were affected by the establishment of the Israeli state in 1948.*

Is this Prouty comment about Middle East oil supplies and Israel supposed to be "anti-Semitic?"

I think this question is related to more general debates-- at the UN and elsewhere-- about whether any real or imagined criticism of Israel constitutes "anti-Semitism."

https://prouty.org/

*  This was printed in The Washington Post, March 5, 1997
Letters to the Editor

Hidden Causes of Mideast Strife=5>

Stephen S. Rosenfeld's Feb 14 op-ed column, "A Tragedy for Israel - and Maybe a Way Out", is most informative but unacceptably lacking in historical facts.

In late 1943, when I was flying the Chinese delegation to the Teheran Conference from Cairo (that the Chinese were there also is a little-known fact), I took advantage of the eight huge oil pipelines - which stretched across the desert from the Mosul and Kirkuk oil fields of Iraq to Haifa, the seaport in Palestine - as a fix for navigation across that desert.

In 1948, just after the creation of the state of Israel, the port of Haifa was closed, and those pipelines went dry. Iraq was forced to find another way to the sea and essential shipping. Later the expanding oil production of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait required an outlet to the Mediterranean Sea to Europe. They built the largest oil pipeline in the world - i.e., TAP-LINE.

Later, when Israel felt it necessary to invade Lebanon "to protect its northern border," it encountered TAP-LINE when it closed the port of Sidon. That enormous oil transportation system was closed to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, and they have had to create an alternative to their markets in Europe.

These pipelines from Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia remain closed. Needless to say, this Israeli action stirs up the Arab world and decreases the availability of oil for us all. As a result, Israel's "Lebanon policy" and its Syrian "proxy war" are not exactly the result of "terrorist" activities alone. Even Syria has closed the alternative Iraqi oil outlet that once ran across its territory until it too was closed in 1975.

If anyone is looking for the cause of this never-ending turmoil in these Middle Eastern countries, he might do well to read such sources as the "ARAMCO Handbook" or other publications that contain the facts and not contrived, fanciful alternatives. Old pilots have long memories.

L. FLETCHER PROUTY
Alexandria

Edited April 18, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[James DiEugenio]

Chip Berlet?

I could tell you a lot of things about this guy, like his ties to Angleton.

[Jeff Carter]

2 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

If the essay is real, I suspect Berlet wrote it before he learned of Prouty's "I'm no authority in that area" answer when asked about Holocaust denial

I think a close reading of the Esquire piece makes it almost certain that Berlet was in fact the source of the Prouty quote which has Griffith so agitated.

The footnotes in the piece I linked previously - the Right Woos Left piece   -  make clear that one of Berlet’s methods was to contact and question persons of interest through phone calls to their residences (they tend to hang up on him).  This is not an uncommon practice, but Berlet’s writings demonstrate his aggressive absolutist attitudes which could suggest the tone of these phone calls is not exactly professional.

In my opinion, the Prouty quote in question reads entirely differently once one understands that it was likely a response delivered in the midst of an aggressive “when did you stop beating your wife?”-style cold call to his residence, with some accusatory stranger on the other end. The true context has been omitted in the Esquire piece.

 

2 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

So Prouty didn't know what Berlet did for a living or where he worked? Really? He didn't know that Berlet was a fairly prominent ultra-liberal investigative journalist with stainless anti-fascist credentials? 

Berlet wasn't prominent at all. 

And he's a funny figure to accord “stainless anti-fascist credentials”. He has a record of creating division and conflict within anti-fascist organizations. One of his targets over the years has been highly respected anti-fascist researcher David Emory. Emory is a long-time ally to the JFK community. Berlet also targeted John Judge, whose credentials in this milieu are unimpeachable. Judge was a long-time friend and colleague with Fletcher Prouty.