W. Niederhut Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 9 hours ago, Bill Fite said: just a recap of recent history: favorite is the party / insider / media favorite outsider - the non-favourite or non-insider 2008: Dem Primary - favorite: Clinton outsider: Obama Gen Election - insider: McCain outsider: Obama 2016: Dem Primary - favorite: Clinton outsider: Bernie Rep Primary: favorite: someone on the 'deep bench' outsider: Trump Gen Election - favorite: Clinton outsider: Trump 2020: Dem Primary: favorite: Biden outsider: Bernie Gen Election: favorite: Biden outsider: None - Trump running for re-election In 2016 the Dems had to pull out all the stops to stop Bernie. I may be wrong, but I wouldn't write off any 'outsider' at this point as it goes against the trend. Voters seem fed up with politicians. Although, the Dem establishment will pull out all the stops against RFK jr. Interesting post, Bill, but I will point out that there are qualitative differences in the definition of "outsider." For example, as an "outsider" in 2016, Trump was also a candidate who had no experience as a legislator or government administrator-- no experience in public governance. Generally, "outsider" has been used to refer to candidates who run from outside of the Beltway-- typically as state governors (e.g., Jimmy Carter in 1976, Ronald Reagan in 1980, Bill Clinton in 1992, George W, Bush in 2000, etc.) Donald Trump was a different kind of "outsider," as is RFK, Jr.-- men who have had no experience as legislators or state governors. In Trump's case, it proved to be a disaster. Professors of business administration gave Trump an "F" as an administrator. He had difficulty appointing and retaining qualified, competent Cabinet officials, and a general inability to effectively delegate administrative tasks. In effect, he was a sales and marketing guy with experience as a reality television host. Has RFK, Jr. had any experience in governance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: Interesting post, Bill, but I will point out that there are qualitative differences in the definition of "outsider." For example, as an "outsider" in 2016, Trump was also a candidate who had no experience as a legislator or government administrator-- no experience in public governance. Generally, "outsider" has been used to refer to candidates who run from outside of the Beltway-- typically as state governors (e.g., Jimmy Carter in 1976, Ronald Reagan in 1980, Bill Clinton in 1992, George W, Bush in 2000, etc.) Donald Trump was a different kind of "outsider," as is RFK, Jr.-- men who have had no experience as legislators or state governors. In Trump's case, it proved to be a disaster. Professors of business administration gave Trump an "F" as an administrator. He had difficulty appointing and retaining qualified, competent Cabinet officials, and a general inability to effectively delegate administrative tasks. In effect, he was a sales and marketing guy with experience as a reality television host. Has RFK, Jr. had any experience in governance? It may be worth noting that Edward Moore Kennedy was RFK Jr’s only paternal archetype on that side of the family when growing up and Teddy was one of the most effective legislators. It’s almost unimaginable for RFK Jr not to have benefitted from that craft. Likewise its almost impossible for RFK Jr not to have absorbed necessary knowledge from his family. He is also a very educated, accomplished man. Some candidates would benefit enormously from some real world experience. He’s had his problems too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Denny Zartman said: Do you consider proximity to power as the same thing as experience? Gerald Ford was a longtime member of the House of Representatives and a member of the Warren Commission. But his proximity to power and LEGISLATIVE experience didn't make him a good Chief Executive. So "proximity to power" isn't always the RIGHT kind of experience needed to be an effective President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 BTW if anyone wants to help with RFK Jr's campaign, you can sign up here:https://www.teamkennedy.com/volunteer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) RFK, Jr. has done some admirable work on environmental protection-- one of the things I admire about him. But, for the record, one of RFK. Jr.'s long-time associates is the de-registered British physician, Andrew Wakefield, whose once popular claims about vaccines causing autism have been scientifically debunked. Even RFK, Jr.s own family members have criticized his involvement in the anti-vaccine movement. RFK, Jr. has also been one of the leading promoters anti-vaccine disinformation during the COVID pandemic. The Lancet MMR Autism Fraud Lancet MMR autism fraud - Wikipedia The Lancet MMR autism fraud centered on the publication in February 1998 of a fraudulent research paper titled "Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children" in The Lancet.[1] The paper, authored by now discredited and deregistered Andrew Wakefield, and listing twelve coauthors, falsely claimed non-existent, causative links between the MMR vaccine, colitis, and autism. The fraud was exposed in a lengthy Sunday Times investigation[2][3][4][5] by reporter Brian Deer,[6][7][8] resulting in the paper's retraction in February 2010[9] and Wakefield being struck off the UK medical register three months later. Wakefield reportedly stood to earn up to $43 million per year selling diagnostic kits for a non-existent syndrome he claimed to have discovered.[10] He also held a patent to a rival vaccine at the time, and he had been employed by a lawyer representing parents in lawsuits against vaccine producers. The scientific consensus on vaccines and autism is that there is no causal connection between MMR, or any other vaccine, and autism. *** Vaccines are not associated with autism: An evidence-based meta-analysis of case-control and cohort studies Vaccines are not associated with autism: An evidence-based meta-analysis of case-control and cohort studies - ScienceDirect June 17, 2014 Edited April 10, 2023 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted April 10, 2023 Author Share Posted April 10, 2023 On 4/10/2023 at 2:10 AM, Bob Ness said: Just exactly what qualifies RFK Jr. to be President? I for one am tired of completely unqualified people running for office because they're celebrities. Especially presidents. Would you have them fly your 737 on the next flight you take? I think not. The job of president is much more important and difficult. In regard to the JFKA files, the general public couldn't care a less. What it will take to get those files released is beyond me. Lawsuits, I guess. I think that's the best shot. "What it will take to get those files released is beyond me. Lawsuits, I guess. I think that's the best shot."--BN The best shot is an RFK Jr. Presidency. He would release the records. I wish Larry Schnapf and MFF the best of luck with their lawsuit to exhume the JFK Records, now snuffed and buried by President Biden and AG Merrick Garland (with zero objection by M$M, or anyone in either major political party, with some rare exceptions). But MFF and LS will have to prevail in the federal government-dominated DC kangaroo courts, including the DC Court of Appeal (ask Jeff Morley about the DC courts). I suppose MFF and LS from there can appeal to the Supreme Court, but the SC can decline to hear the case. The legal route looks like The Myth of Sisyphus..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cotter Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 42 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: RFK, Jr. has done some admirable work on environmental protection-- one of the things I admire about him. But, for the record, one of RFK. Jr.'s long-time associates is the de-registered British physician, Andrew Wakefield, whose once popular claims about vaccines causing autism have been scientifically debunked. Even RFK, Jr.s own family members have criticized his involvement in the anti-vaccine movement. RFK, Jr. has also been one of the leading promoters anti-vaccine disinformation during the COVID pandemic. The Lancet MMR Autism Fraud Lancet MMR autism fraud - Wikipedia The Lancet MMR autism fraud centered on the publication in February 1998 of a fraudulent research paper titled "Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children" in The Lancet.[1] The paper, authored by now discredited and deregistered Andrew Wakefield, and listing twelve coauthors, falsely claimed non-existent, causative links between the MMR vaccine, colitis, and autism. The fraud was exposed in a lengthy Sunday Times investigation[2][3][4][5] by reporter Brian Deer,[6][7][8] resulting in the paper's retraction in February 2010[9] and Wakefield being struck off the UK medical register three months later. Wakefield reportedly stood to earn up to $43 million per year selling diagnostic kits for a non-existent syndrome he claimed to have discovered.[10] He also held a patent to a rival vaccine at the time, and he had been employed by a lawyer representing parents in lawsuits against vaccine producers. The scientific consensus on vaccines and autism is that there is no causal connection between MMR, or any other vaccine, and autism. *** Vaccines are not associated with autism: An evidence-based meta-analysis of case-control and cohort studies Vaccines are not associated with autism: An evidence-based meta-analysis of case-control and cohort studies - ScienceDirect June 17, 2014 William, You’ve been persistently ignoring the Ethical Skeptic article I posted, “Vaccinials – the Betrayed Generation of Americans”, about children being damaged by vaccines. If you could rebut any of its contents, your assertions might have some semblance of credibility. https://theethicalskeptic.com/2018/01/14/vaccinials-the-betrayed-generation-of-americans/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, John Cotter said: If you could rebut any of its contents, your assertions might have some semblance of credibility. Here's my rebuttal: It's BS. Total quackery. All opinion, no science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, John Cotter said: William, You’ve been persistently ignoring the Ethical Skeptic article I posted, “Vaccinials – the Betrayed Generation of Americans”, about children being damaged by vaccines. If you could rebut any of its contents, your assertions might have some semblance of credibility. https://theethicalskeptic.com/2018/01/14/vaccinials-the-betrayed-generation-of-americans/ John, Let's begin with your critique of the peer-reviewed, scientific CDC data that I have repeatedly posted for you about COVID mortality rates in vaccinated and unvaccinated adults in the U.S.-- in addition to the (above) scientific consensus debunking Wakefield's MMR/Autism fraudulence. Incidentally, should I report you to the administrators for "abusive" conduct for your above erroneous post about my lack of credibility? Evidently, either you, Chris Barnard, and/or Ben Cole complained to the administrators last night that I was "abusive" for criticizing your apparent ignorance about American politics-- in regard to not understanding the qualitative differences between the "piloting" skills of President Biden and America's worst POTUS, Donald Trump. I'll stand by the accuracy of my comment-- which was deleted by one of our administrators. I have also asked the administrators to kindly clarify what constitutes "abuse" in our debates here on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cotter Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: John, Let's begin with your critique of the peer-reviewed, scientific CDC data that I have repeatedly posted for you about COVID mortality rates in vaccinated and unvaccinated adults in the U.S.-- in addition to the (above) scientific consensus debunking Wakefield's MMR/Autism fraudulence. Incidentally, should I report you to the administrators for "abusive" conduct for your above erroneous post about my lack of credibility? Evidently, either you, Chris Barnard, and/or Ben Cole complained to the administrators last night that I was "abusive" for criticizing your apparent ignorance about American politics-- in regard to not understanding the qualitative differences between the "piloting" skills of President Biden and America's worst POTUS, Donald Trump. I'll stand by the accuracy of my comment-- which was deleted by one of our administrators. I have also asked the administrators to kindly clarify what constitutes "abuse" in our debates here on the forum. William, My saying your assertions lack credibility is not an ad hominem, since it relates to your assertions, not you. The discredited article by Andrew Wakefield to which you referred was published in The Lancet. The “Vaccines are not associated with autism” article you cited was published by ScienceDirect. ScienceDirect is operated by the Dutch publishing company Elsevier, which owns The Lancet. Accordingly, the sources you cite are questionable, and in any event we also know that academia is rife with groupthink, authoritarianism and corruption. The following passage from Wikipedia about Elsevier certainly doesn’t inspire confidence: For example, in 2004, a resolution by Stanford University's senate singled out Elsevier's journals as being "disproportionately expensive compared to their educational and research value", which librarians should consider dropping, and encouraged its faculty "not to contribute articles or editorial or review efforts to publishers and journals that engage in exploitive or exorbitant pricing".[47] Similar guidelines and criticism of Elsevier's pricing policies have been passed by the University of California, Harvard University, and Duke University.[48] In July 2015, the Association of Universities in the Netherlands announced a plan to start boycotting Elsevier, which refused to negotiate on any open access policy for Dutch universities.[49] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsevier Can you now please address the contents of the article I posted? Edited April 11, 2023 by John Cotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cotter Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 38 minutes ago, Matt Allison said: Here's my rebuttal: It's BS. Total quackery. All opinion, no science. Please either address the contents of the article or run along, Matt, like a good man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 21 minutes ago, John Cotter said: William, My saying your assertions lack credibility is not an ad hominem, since it relates to your assertions, not you. I never said it was ad hominem, John. You misquoted me again. I asked if it should be reported to the administrators as "abusive"-- in the same way that you (or someone else on the forum) accused me of being "abusive" for referring to your inaccurate post about President Biden as evidence of your "embarrassing ignorance about American politics." My comment was accurate. As for your comment about my "lack of credibility" on matters relating to immunology and virology-- it's ridiculous. I'm a graduate of the top-ranked medical school in the U.S. One of my old medical school classmates, Peg Hamburg, was Obama's FDA Director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said: The best shot is an RFK Jr. Presidency. He would release the records. Not worth it. He's an amateur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted April 11, 2023 Author Share Posted April 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bob Ness said: Not worth it. He's an amateur. I am not commenting on RFK Jr.'s skills as president. I am commenting the only pathway to open up the JFK Records. President Biden and AG Merrick Garland have snuffed the JFK Records, as of now. The MFF lawsuit strikes me as Sisyphean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said: I am not commenting on RFK Jr.'s skills as president. I am commenting the only pathway to open up the JFK Records. President Biden and AG Merrick Garland have snuffed the JFK Records, as of now. The MFF lawsuit strikes me as Sisyphean. I see. Maybe. Courts are the only thing we've got apparently. The Pols aren't going to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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