Ruby went in the side ANNEX door to kill Oswald

[David Josephs]

I was curious whether the members felt John and I adequately showed how the DPD (Dean, Pierce, Putnam, et al) stripped the security from the parking area between those stairs and where Oswald was being brought out... and with the help of Croy and Westbrook informed Fritz that Ruby was on his way.

Within 4 minutes Oswald is basically handed to Ruby on a platter with Dean throwing Vaughn under the bus.

This was an earlier version of our thoughts but we since revised adding it was very likely he turned right and went around the corner, then down the alley to the Annex door to avoid being seen at all on Main street.  We reference a number of men who were on Main near the ramp for a variety of reasons...  none said they saw Ruby.

Dean fwiw is actually standing by the armored car, #27, and was not able to see very much of anything from where he was.

Identifying any major or minor flaws would be greatly appreciated...  we understand we do not have direct evidence linking WESTBROOK to notifying Fritz about Ruby's approach yet the obvious absence of much about Westbrook from the rest of the weekend is a bit strange. after his escapades on Friday he just seems to disappear.

 

The alley I think he took... and we can see the "alley" in the overhead shot leading to the door....  with the 3rd floor windows as a perfect vantage point
all in empty court/interview rooms due to it being Sunday.

 

[Joe Bauer]

Other suspicious facts to consider regards Ruby's improbable access to the basement as well as the front of the press line just when Oswald was presented so openly just feet away from him:

Seconds before Ruby jumps to the press line front he's on film hiding right behind Dallas PD officer big "Blackie" Harrison. Within inches!

Croy was right there as well! Just a couple of feet to Harrison's side.

Of the 25 or so Dallas PD officers "who even knew Jack Ruby" according to DPD Chief Jessie Curry, big "Blackie" happened to be one of the closest PD friends of Jack Ruby for years!

Blackie is seen smoking one of his signature cigars right up until he leaps to help subdue Ruby. You can still see that cigar in his mouth as he is wrestling with Jack Ruby!

Security duty protocal be damned. Did anyone see any other security or even press person in that basement smoking while Oswald is being brought in?

None-the-less, of all the security persons in that basement, Ruby just gets lucky in finding the one hulking police buddy to hide behind right up to his final leap who happens to be one of his most well known long time DPD friends?

There was a cigarette dispensing machine near the allyway entrance to the basement. I read that Harrison used to get his cigars from that machine.

Obviously he bought some before his Oswald transfer basement security duty. Who knows what to speculate about in that regards?

A local TV station technical equipment crew and their van was parked right outside the front of the DPD building most all of 36 hours until Oswald was shot in the basement.

If you've read their statements regarding their seeing a man whose face and build highly resembled Jack Ruby walk up and down the sidewalk there next to their van at times directly contradicting the WC's findings, they certainly sound quite believable.  This man actually tapped on their van window and spoke to two of the three men. Asking about Oswald's transfer time. His face just a couple of feet away!

All but a few press persons with ID were allowed on that sidewalk even hours before Oswald's transfer.

The DPD made sure all others were moved to the other side of the street. A crowd had developed there which we all know about.

Yet, a man fitting Ruby's description and without press ID is allowed to walk back and forth on the police cleared sidewalk up until mid-morning?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[David Josephs]

5 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Yet, a man fitting Ruby's description and without press ID is allowed to walk back and forth on the police cleared sidewalk up until mid-morning?

11/24/63 
2:15/2:30/3:00AM CALLS MADE TO SHERIFF, DPD AND FBI SPEAK OF KILLING OSWALD DURING XFER
DPD CALL ANSWERED BY BILLY GRAMMER
GRAMMERS AFFIDAVIT GIVEN PERSONALLY TO CURRY STATING THIS WAS RUBY, DISAPPEARS AND GRAMMER NEVER TESTIFIES
GRAMMER SAYS CALLER KNEW DETAILED PLANS OF TRANSFER ONLY AVAILABLE TO DPD/FBI
4:00AM RUBY ARRIVES HOME

8:00AM WBAP CREWMAN RICHEY ID’s RUBY IN FRONT OF CITY HALL
ALSO AT 8AM – ELNORA PITTS, RUBY’S MAID, CALLS TO CONFIRM HER CLEANING THAT DAY
“DOES NOT SOUND LIKE RUBY”
MRS. PITTS SAID, "He didn't talk like--he never did sound like hisself." The only other person known to be in Ruby's apartment that Sunday morning was George Senator, Ruby's roommate 
9:30AM PLANO TX PREACHER SPEAKS WITH RUBY IN CITY HALL ELEVATOR

10:00AM RICHEY SEES RUBY AGAIN OUT FRONT
10:19AM RECORDS SHOW THIS IS THE TIME CARLIN CALLS RUBY LONG DISTANCE
PRIOR TO 10:20AM GRAMMER TELLING CURRY ABOUT RUBY’s CALL YET CONVEYS THIS TO NO ONE
CURRY SUGGESTS TO ASST CHIEF BATCHELOR AND DEPUTY CHIEF STEVENSON THAT OSWALD BE TRANSPORTED IN AN ARMORED CAR – BOTH MEN AGREE

10:20AM CURRY TELLS PRESS OSWALD WILL BE XFERED TO COUNTY JAIL BY ARMORED TRUCK
10:30AM RUBY ASKS WBAP CREWMAN IRA WALKER “HAS HE BEEN BROUGHT DOWN YET?

RUBY COULD NOT HAVE BEEN AT HIS APARTMENT TO RECEIVE CALL FROM KAREN CARLIN

HIS ALIBI WAS FAKE
 

AT 10:45AM BROCK, WHO PERSONALLY KNEW RUBY, WAS REASSIGNED TO TRAFFIC DUTY AND LEFT WORSLEY AS ONLY DPD STAFF GUARDING ENTIRE DARKENED PARKING AREA

BEFORE 11:00AM WORSLEY WAS ALSO SENT TO WORK TRAFFIC

AN UNIDENTIFIED RESERVE OFFICER TAKES BROCK’S PLACE?  CROY is a Reserve Officer

Mr. GRIFFIN. I don't understand. You have said here, if I understand it in your affidavit, that you saw a man whom you believed to be Jack Ruby.
Mr. CROY. I believed when I wrote that up it was him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Now, have you since come to believe that that man wasn't Jack Ruby?
Mr. CROY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You still believe that man was Jack Ruby?
Mr. CROY. To myself, I still believe it was Jack Ruby

 

Mr. Griffin: Who checked the stairway door in the garage that leads up into the municipal building?
Mr. Dean: The stairway door?
Mr. Griffin: Yes.
Mr. Dean: I don't know of any door that leads up into the--the stairway?
Mr. Griffin: There is a stairway…. over where the elevators are
Mr. Dean: Oh, Oh, yes
Mr. Griffin: Who checked that door?
Mr. Dean: Sergeant Putnam checked it once and I checked it once and it was locked.
Mr. Griffin: Did you know at the time you checked it that even though the door was locked from the outside, it could be opened from the inside?
Mr. Dean: [No response.]

 

Both BROCK and WORSLEY were stationed between the red and green lines below.  Brock by the stairs (who was well acquainted with Ruby) and Worsley in the middle of the parking area who also knew Ruby very well...  both men removed within 15 and 30 mins of Ruby coming.

this is the front of the 1st floor stairs.. Ruby enters a similar door on the opposite side to the left of the service elevator in the distance...  remove this building and we are facing directly at the Western Union office

 

HSCA CONCLUSION:

THE “ALLEY” ROUTE WAS THE MOST LIKELY ALTERNATIVE

FBI/DPD DID NOT CONSIDER ALLEY ENTRANCE

WC IGNORED THE POSSIBILITY ENTIRELY
STILL DOES NOT CONSIDER TIMING BASED ON RUBY’S MOVEMENTS CONVEYED TO FRITZ WHO SHUTS DOWN INTERROGATION TO BRING OSWALD DOWN…

On the page prior to above in the HSCA report:

Capt. William Westbrook, a member of the DPD special investigative unit (to ID who saw what in the basement), indicated in 1978 that the alley door was not checked that morning (287) (although his basis for this statement was not clear)

 

[David Josephs]

Sgt. Putnam assigned Officer Roy Vaughn to guard the Main St. ramp and obtain identification from anyone who wanted to use the ramp for entry into the basement. Vaughn began his assignment at 9:30 AM and stood two to three feet inside the very narrow ramp. Vaughn had known Ruby since 1959 and insisted that Ruby did not go down the Main St. ramp.

At 11:18 AM, as Ruby was leaving the Western Union office, Lt. Rio Pierce, accompanied by Sgt. James Putnam and Sgt. Billy Joe Maxey, drove an unmarked police car up the ramp and onto Main St. All of these officers knew Jack Ruby, and all said that nobody, including Ruby, came down the ramp as the car was moving up the ramp and onto Main St.

Sgt. Don Flusche was the “watch commander” and was parked across the street when he watched the unmarked police car drive onto Main St at 11:18 AM. Flusche knew Jack Ruby for years and said that Ruby did not walk down Main St., was not anywhere the ramp, and did not go down the ramp.

Harry Tasker, a cab driver, was hired by a reporter to wait outside the police building from 9:40 AM to 12:25 PM to be available to carry film of Oswald’s transfer. Tasker parked his cab across the street from the Main St. ramp and stood at the entrance to the basement 5 minutes before Oswald was shot. Tasker saw the police car drive up the ramp and leave the building but did not see anyone who resembled Ruby go down the ramp.

UPI reporter Terrance McGarry was standing on the northern portion of the Main St. ramp 5 minutes before Oswald was shot. McGarry did not see anyone resembling Ruby come down the ramp.

Detective W. J. Harrison watched the car driven by Lt. Pierce go up the ramp and said nobody came down the ramp. 
 

[Jeff Carter]

hi David

One of the 50 Reasons episodes was assembled from live contemporaneous televised news feeds from this event.

I’ve been curious as to the identity of one of the police officers, seen at 3:43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hreBWIdzHoA

Q. Do I believe that you recognized this man after the capture?

DPD officer:  Yes, sir.

Q.  Did I understand you to say that if you had recognized him before you would have ejected him?

DPD officer: Yes, sir.

 

Any thoughts?

[David Josephs]

17 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

I’ve been curious as to the identity of one of the police officers, seen at 3:43

That's Patrick DEAN... the first and only DPD person to claim Ruby had come down the ramp; and a xxxx from the word go.

Sgt. Dean said, “When I got back to the city hail, I contacted Lieutenant Pierce and advised him--that's when I talked to Pierce about my conversation with Ruby, and I told him that I had talked to Ruby and that he told me that--how he had gotten into the basement, which was breaking security, and that Officer R. E. Vaughn was the man involved….

He (Pierce) notified the captain (Talbert) of this.” 
 

Putnam, in the car with Pierce and Maxey going up the Main street ramp & was the same man Westbrook claims had the keys to the car which honked in front of 1026 Beckley...#207.  small freaking world.

Dean claimed Sorrels was in the room when Ruby told him this.   Griffin knew better and called him on his BS.

DEAN FAILS TO ID RESERVIST TAKING BROCK’S PLACE
STICKS TO STORY HE SAW RUBY – AND RUBY TOLD HIM ABOUT RAMP
GRIFFIN THINKS DEAN HIDING MATERIAL FACTS ABOUT ENTRANCE, THAT DEAN MAY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO STOP RUBY
GRIFFIN/HUBERT SEND MEMO TO RANKIN FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION
DEAN COMPLAINS TO WADE ABOUT GRIFFIN
WADE CALLS NEW POTUS JOHNSON WHO PRESSURES WARREN
Texas attorney general Waggoner Carr accompanied Dean to Washington DC when he met and shared his complaints with Earl Warren about Griffin’s behavior. Griffin was not allowed to confront Dean at the Warren-Dean meeting 

 

In his report to Chief Curry two days later, on November 26, Dean said that Ruby told him “in the presence of Mr. Sorrels that he (Ruby) had entered the basement through the ramp entering on Main Street.” Dean told the WC about their conversation. Ruby allegedly told Dean, "I walked in the Main Street ramp…I have just been to the Western Union to mail a money order to Fort Worth…. I walked from the Western Union to the ramp…. I saw Sam Pierce drive out of the basement. At that time, at the time the car drove out is when I walked in.” 

Mr. HUBERT. Now, subsequently, of course, it turned out that Ruby shot Oswald. Did you know him prior to that time?
Lieutenant PIERCE. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Ruby?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Yes, sir; I have known him 12 or 13 years, I guess.
Mr. HUBERT. So, you would recognize him without any difficulty whether he had a hat on or not?
Lieutenant PIERCE. I don't think I would have any trouble recognizing him if I saw him.
Mr. HUBERT. You did not, see him in that crowd to your right?
Lieutenant PIERCE. No; I didn't see him that day at all.

Agent Sorrels, head of the Secret Service in Dallas, reported that Ruby “said no such thing.” 

Mr. HUBERT. And he said he came in through the ramp, I believe you said.
Mr. SORRELS. That is right.

SORRELS. Now, I might put in here as an explanation that these are in response to questions that Captain Fritz was asking him. That he had this gun for 2 or 3 years. That George Senator was a roommate. That he came in the basement--the word "basement" is not shown here
he "came in off Main Street, off of the ramp"
 

Edited May 4, 2023 by David Josephs

[Joe Bauer]

Sounds like a Jack Ruby police buddy reunion that day in the basement.

Pierce, Vaughn, Harrison, Dean...who else?

[David Josephs]

23 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Sounds like a Jack Ruby police buddy reunion that day in the basement.

Pierce, Vaughn, Harrison, Dean...who else?

There are estimates he knew over 50% of the force... hundreds of DPD men were aware of Ruby with many many of them much closer than that.

Fritz and Curry disavow knowing him, of course, we can't have that now can we?

And we have this referring to 1953, Westbrook and Ruby.  Got to wonder how an HR guy gets to make those decisions unless it came from above... more below IN REF TO WESTBROOK

 

PUTNAM WAS IN THE CAR WITH PIERCE AND MAXEY

 

Westbrook above with Morales in Vietnam after he left the DPD.

.

Edited May 4, 2023 by David Josephs

[Michael Crane]

Was Ruby's bullet loaded with poison or did it just hit vital organs?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Michael Crane

[David Josephs]

2 hours ago, Michael Crane said:

Was Ruby's bullet loaded with poison or did it just hit vital organs?

Hi Michael...

As I understand it, he was shot more in the stomach yet in the ambulance on the way to Parkland the EMT supposedly gives him CPR/Compressions which actually makes the matter for Oswald much worse.  No poison bullets... reign it in conspiracy dude... lol (jk)

What has always struck me is the lack of any apparent blood on Oswald... granted the sweater is black but here it is hiked up a bit and nothing, anywhere.

Although now I look again, the left side of the sweater does look wet...

 

[Michael Crane]

I was just wondering because I know that the shot was too low for the heart.

Ruby was sweating his ass off until he found out that Oswald was dead.

Once again,I appreciate your help.

[Ron Bulman]

Well fudge, it won't let me copy this from a google search so "injuries to the aorta, stomach and diaphragm, inferior vena cava, spleen and liver".  I read somewhere once, a perfect shot.  Maybe by accident or happenstance.

I think I've also read they took Oswald to the basement office and laid him on the desk until an ambulance got there.  Where someone tried giving him CPR, the wrong thing to do to save his life I've also read.

I'm no doctor but I think the aorta injury might have got him either way.  It meant blood was pumping out into his body, not throughout it.  He might well have bled out on his own.  But I think I read CPR would have exacerbated the process.  

Didn't Ruby ask on the floor while pinned down, did I hit him?  Then, that he intended to empty the gun into him?

Edited May 5, 2023 by Ron Bulman

[David Josephs]

1 minute ago, Ron Bulman said:

Well fudge, it won't let me copy this from a google search so "injuries to the aorta, stomach and diaphragm, inferior vena cava, spleen and liver".  I read somewhere once, a perfect shot.  Maybe by accident or happenstance.

I think I've also read they took Oswald to the basement office and laid him on the desk until an ambulance got there.  Where someone tried giving him CPR, the wrong thing to do to save his life I've also read.

I'm no doctor but I think the aorta injury might have got him either way.  It meant blood was pumping out into his body, not throughout it.  He might well have bled out on his own.  But I think I read CPR would have exacerbated the process.

Interesting about the aorta...  with damage there one would expect LOADS of blood dripping down his body... yet on review of some evidence, I am very much wrong it appears.

The average time for first responders to arrive is 7-10 minutes. These highly-trained individuals are experts at assessing a scene and administering aid instantly. However, the average time for someone to bleed out after experiencing serious physical trauma from an injury, say a gunshot wound, is only 3-5 minutes. May 19, 2022

yet at the same time:

Do abdominal wounds bleed a lot?

Bleeding may be minimal and cause few problems. More serious injuries may cause massive bleeding with shock. Blood pressure is usually low... read more and sometimes death. Bleeding from abdominal injury is mostly internal (within the abdominal cavity).

[Ron Bulman]

8 hours ago, David Josephs said:

I was curious whether the members felt John and I adequately showed how the DPD (Dean, Pierce, Putnam, et al) stripped the security from the parking area between those stairs and where Oswald was being brought out... and with the help of Croy and Westbrook informed Fritz that Ruby was on his way.

Within 4 minutes Oswald is basically handed to Ruby on a platter with Dean throwing Vaughn under the bus.

This was an earlier version of our thoughts but we since revised adding it was very likely he turned right and went around the corner, then down the alley to the Annex door to avoid being seen at all on Main street.  We reference a number of men who were on Main near the ramp for a variety of reasons...  none said they saw Ruby.

Dean fwiw is actually standing by the armored car, #27, and was not able to see very much of anything from where he was.

Identifying any major or minor flaws would be greatly appreciated...  we understand we do not have direct evidence linking WESTBROOK to notifying Fritz about Ruby's approach yet the obvious absence of much about Westbrook from the rest of the weekend is a bit strange. after his escapades on Friday he just seems to disappear.

 

The alley I think he took... and we can see the "alley" in the overhead shot leading to the door....  with the 3rd floor windows as a perfect vantage point
all in empty court/interview rooms due to it being Sunday.

 

Back to your original question David.  First, for any who didn't notice, you can enlarge the (first) basement diagram up to 2X.

You posted on this a year or two ago in another thread or two.  I am convinced by your and Mr. Armstrong's work this is the most logical entry point for Ruby.

I've never bought down the ramp.  Vaughn passed a lie detector test, Dean did not.  Another officer or two in the street watching the exit ramp, along with witnesses in the crowd.  Ruby in his suit and fedora would have been noticed walking up Main Street, then down the ramp.

I have some years ago read speculation Ruby walked past the ramp to the front entrance to city hall where he accessed a door between the two buildings, left open by Dean.  Supposedly seen crouching helping push a WBAP camera into place, on film.  From whence he would have to cross the driveway to get into position for the shot.  More chances of him being seen on Main or in the basement before.

Your prior posts I mentioned as I said convinced me of the "back door" entry so to speak.  The devil is in the details as you've said, is in the details you provided is in the details you provided then.  A more detailed diagram of the basement, a diagram showing Dean couldn't see the assassination site (elevation), a picture of the bars Ruby climbed  over.  Another picture or two of Western Union to the back side of the Annex view.  An another showing the 3rd floor of the annex from where Ruby's approach could be seen.

Again, I'm convinced it's the most likely way he got in.  If you choose to share more for others, I enjoy re affirmation as well.  Cheers, Ron

 

[David Josephs]

5 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Again, I'm convinced it's the most likely way he got in.  If you choose to share more for others, I enjoy re affirmation as well.  Cheers, Ron

Thanks for the feedback my friend...

What I found very interesting was how the central question focused solely on "it was inside knowledge that allowed Ruby to be where he needed to be - even though he'd have no idea when exactly they'd bring Oswald down".

It simply never had dawned on most anyone that it had to be the other way around or it could never work.  That was how we approached it from the start.  And then the question of "clearing the path thru the parking area" 15 and 30 mins beforehand.  That assumes Ruby's whereabouts were known well prior to his going to the Western Union.

It also means that somehow Ruby is made aware of the Carlin call at 10:19, and why he asks at 10:30 if they had brought him down yet... as if he'd just run in and shoot him if they said yes, which was not possible.  The alibi call also had to be arranged ahead of time.

Even the HSCA which concludes he entered by the side Annex door is dumbstruck as to how he timed it so perfectly never once thinking that Oswald must have been brought to him when it was known he'd be there - with not a single person seeing him since the procession for Oswald had begun so I'd have to think minds were focused on what was happening.  Croy just stands there knowing the man didn't belong, knowing he was not a member of the press and doing nothing, then lying about what he actually did afterward.

Croy told Griffin that Ruby “ran by me at a pretty good clip, he was gaining momentum." He rushed/ran thru the line of reporters like a fullback. Croy saw film clips of the shooting and said, “the ones that I saw were the ones that I was trying to get the gun from Ruby.”    Griffin, however, had reviewed the film clips of Ruby standing calmly next to Croy seconds before the shooting. Griffin knew that Croy did not try to stop Ruby and did not try to grab Ruby’s gun. The film clips show that when Ruby lunged forward, Croy backed up and disappeared. Griffin knew Croy was lying .

Griffin was focused on the first and only person who said that Ruby gained access to the basement by walking down the Main St. ramp unattended—Sgt. Patrick Dean.
 

Furthermore, no one would be saying anything about CAPT Westbrook wandering around.  We tried to find information about Westbrook for Sat and Sun yet there seems to be a large void in that area.  We found this image and that this WCE neglected to mention there was a passthru there which allowed the higher ups (Curry's office is in the top left corner) to get to court if they needed without going into the main area of the building.