Rufus Taylor to Adm McDonald re: Ruby/Oswald connection 27-Nov-63 - ONI

[Greg Doudna]

Away from home and speaking only from memory, but one detail can be cleared up. The report of the sighting of Oswald with Ruby testing speakers or electronics equipment is the alleged Ruby and Oswald sighting at the Contract Electronics store, which actually was Craford according to both plausibility and Craford’s direct testimony that it was him. In other words a mistaken identification of Craford. The informant source of it I think was an employee at the store (?-not sure on that detail), who had been an informant in the past. Not an actual Oswald connection to Ruby there. 

william Kelly has done some interesting research on ONI files and Oswald (I don’t have the links this moment). One of the “fire marshals” doing security for the Oswald women at the secluded motel after the assassination when the Secret Service had them before the FBI, was also, unknown to anyone at the time (but is known now), a or the resident ONI agent in Fort Worth. That is, ONI was there covertly at the earliest interrogation of Marina. See William Kelly’s blog posts for that. 

[Jonathan Cohen]

16 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

That is, ONI was there covertly at the earliest interrogation of Marina. See William Kelly’s blog posts for that. 

Thanks Greg. I guess I'd again pose the question to both you and Steve: ONI presence at Marina's early interrogations may not have been strictly above board, but do we have reason to suspect it was anything more than the agency just attempting to cover its own backside due to Oswald having been an ex-Marine?

[David Josephs]

52 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Immediately after the assassination, the information they shared was to be hand delivered and not trusted to the telephone, or TWX. They were reluctant to share info with the Pentagon or the Defense Intelligene Agency, and even then, it seems that they were only sharing summaries, and not the raw data.

So well put Steve.  Your posting of Taylor and the Oswald file from almost a year prior (and the coincidence of the Dec 28th "party") simply begs more attention...

I hope you run with it a bit as I am focused on a few different things and can't give it as much time as I'd like right now.
Couldn't leave it in more capable hands - thanks for the assist.

Cheers

DJ

[David Josephs]

28 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

Away from home and speaking only from memory, but one detail can be cleared up. The report of the sighting of Oswald with Ruby testing speakers or electronics equipment is the alleged Ruby and Oswald sighting at the Contract Electronics store, which actually was Craford according to both plausibility and Craford’s direct testimony that it was him. In other words a mistaken identification of Craford. The informant source of it I think was an employee at the store (?-not sure on that detail), who had been an informant in the past. Not an actual Oswald connection to Ruby there. 

william Kelly has done some interesting research on ONI files and Oswald (I don’t have the links this moment). One of the “fire marshals” doing security for the Oswald women at the secluded motel after the assassination when the Secret Service had them before the FBI, was also, unknown to anyone at the time (but is known now), a or the resident ONI agent in Fort Worth. That is, ONI was there covertly at the earliest interrogation of Marina. See William Kelly’s blog posts for that. 

 Always been a big fan of KELLY's work.. a very deep well of knowledge there.

"according to both plausibility" - 

Unlike so many others, I prefer that people here be able to see the sources from which I say things...  even and especially if they prove me wrong.

CE2886...  to be remembered, Crafard did not have a tooth in his head in Nov 1963 - literally.  Could be why this man did not speak much. Could it have been someone else?  Due to the potential of opening a can of worms, I 'll leave it at that.

I can't say definitely it was Oswald and I see the same thing holding true for Crafard.  From what I have learned about the situation over the past 15 years, there are more possibilities than are acknowledged.  I'd urge the moderators to be wary of attacks which may now follow. thanks.

[Jonathan Cohen]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

From what I have learned about the situation over the past 15 years, there are more possibilities than are acknowledged. 

Now let me guess ... could it be .... DOPPELGANGERS ?

[Bob Ness]

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Op 921 

Steve Thomas

OP-921 is the Director of Naval Intelligence or his office. 

@David Josephs I don't know if you've seen these at the Weisberg Collection.

ONI_Enclosures C.pdf (hood.edu)

[David Josephs]

On 5/9/2023 at 5:52 PM, Bob Ness said:

OP-921 is the Director of Naval Intelligence or his office. 

@David Josephs I don't know if you've seen these at the Weisberg Collection.

ONI_Enclosures C.pdf (hood.edu)

Thanks so much Bob..   There is also an ONI Enclosures A.pdf

At Baylor in the JA files from copies he took at NARA in the 90's is a 27 page notebook with ONI docs as we..

Some of my docs may be housed in those "enclosures" like this one... been a while and I'm just now getting back to look at them again.

Any help you can afford is always appreciated...  takes a village. 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

deleted

Edited May 10, 2023 by David Josephs

[Paul Brancato]

Roger - very well thought out post. I don’t see this as either or, because I don’t see the CIA, or Army Intelligence, or the Mafia, or fill in the blank, as monolithic. I gather you were in the military and didn’t think highly of the top brass. But in the history of this country we’ve had many high ranking military men that were up to their eyeballs in covert activities. There are many interagency working groups, and other interlocking mechanisms. Some things are run completely off the books. It’s ongoing of course. In a way it’s silly to argue about this. Was Lansdale CIA or military? Etc. you get my point

[Roger Odisio]

13 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Roger - very well thought out post. I don’t see this as either or, because I don’t see the CIA, or Army Intelligence, or the Mafia, or fill in the blank, as monolithic. I gather you were in the military and didn’t think highly of the top brass. But in the history of this country we’ve had many high ranking military men that were up to their eyeballs in covert activities. There are many interagency working groups, and other interlocking mechanisms. Some things are run completely off the books. It’s ongoing of course. In a way it’s silly to argue about this. Was Lansdale CIA or military? Etc. you get my point

Paul,  

 

I think it's important to distinguish between the motives, opportunity, and interaction of the factions you allude to.  A failure to do that, or at least do it competently, has left us spinning our wheels 60 years later, getting little closer to the truth of who was behind the murder.

 

It's also important *not* to treat the JFKA as an isolated incident to be figured out by itself.  The ideological underpinnings of the disposal of Arbenz, Mosaddegh, Lamumba, Allende, etc, are similar to each other and to the JFKA and the domestic murders of the sixties.  

 

As David Talbott has explained, the CIA war machine of the 50s and 60s, run by the Dulles brothers in the 50s, had a central, overriding foreign policy:  countries are either with us or with the Soviet Union against us; there are no uncommitted nations.  And if you're not with us be prepared for our wrath.  

 

It's true various factions interacted in various ways. But the murder was planned by somebody and undoubtedly it was compartmentalized with few at the top in on the task.  The JFKA was of such importance, and both the CIA and LBJ wanted him out so badly, it seems clear to me that that no other faction would or could challenge their leadership of the murder. I'll go so far as to say if someone else were planning to kill JFK and the CIA got wind of it, as they almost surely would have, the plan would be quashed.  The murder was too important to be left to others.

 

 

 

[Paul Brancato]

I admire Talbot greatly. I wonder how he would respond? If we are talking about the master planner I think Dulles is a good bet. Boots on the ground, the hit team, control of the crime scene, more likely Army Intelligence. But the main thing is that we all draw too solid a line between the two. Everyone is a phone call away from everyone else. To me, if Dulles needed a hit team he would turn to the military, in Dallas or anywhere else.