The Minsk Radio Factory Photos

[Gerry Down]

Oswald took 3 photos inside the Minsk radio factory:

 

Commission Document 735 - FBI Gemberling Report of 10 Mar 1964 re: Oswald-Russia/Cuba Page 464 
LINK: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11133#relPageId=470&search=oswald_notebook%20108

Does anyone know where we can see these photos?

It seems highly unusual that Oswald would take photos inside his place of work. Who takes photos inside their place of work? Unless he was doing so as part of a wider effort to be allowed to leave Russia. For example there is a suggestion that Oswald pretended to make bombs in his apartment also as a way of ensuring the Russians would want rid of him. Maybe taking photos inside the factory was another way of making a nuisance of himself. 

Though when you combine these photos with the bizarrely detailed manuscript Oswald typed up on the Minsk factory (LINK: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=311 ) then Oswald seems to have exhibited a bizarre fascination with the factory. 

 

[Larry Hancock]

Oswald took lots of photos "at work" in the Marines (just not in the radar room), he took lots of photos many places - I have seen one taken with fellow workers at the Minsk plant, its in Groden's book. There is also one photo of a Marine jet flight line. Actually the number of photos taken in Russia, with co workers, with friends, with girl friends, with other guys, doing tourist stuff totally puts lie to his being asocial, much less anti-social.

[Steve Thomas]

8 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Oswald took 3 photos inside the Minsk  

Though when you combine these photos with the bizarrely detailed manuscript Oswald typed up on the Minsk factory (LINK: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=311 ) then Oswald seems to have exhibited a bizarre fascination with the factory. 

 

Gerry,

I always thought that Oswald's description of the Minsk plant was an extremely thorough and detailed intelligence report.

If you were going to invade Russia, Oswald gave you the name of the plant supervisor, how many people were employed there, how many soldiers there were in the vicinity, etc.

Perhaps the photos were intended to be used in conjunction with that report.

Steve Thomas

[Benjamin Cole]

Recently, an excellent JFKA researcher described LHO as having the writing skills of a 12-year-old, and not a bright one at that. 

Is LHO the true author of this Minsk radio report?

It is a solid and thoughtful job...probably better than I could have done at age 22. 

OK, spare the jokes...is not this document rather well written? 

 

 

[Larry Hancock]

Ben, I'd encourage you to read samples of Oswald's 1963 writing as a benchmark, compare both the content and vocabulary to a 12  year old.  There are several pieces available in Warren Commission materials:

The Collective Life of a Russian Worker – WC Exhibit 92,   pg 287-336 Vol 16,

On Communism and Capitalism – WC Exhibit 25, pg 106-122 Vol 16

The Communist Party of the United States – WC pg 422-430 Vol 16

The Athenian System  / Outline and Principles pg 431-434 WC Exhibit 98 Vol 16

[Greg Doudna]

16 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Ben, I'd encourage you to read samples of Oswald's 1963 writing as a benchmark, compare both the content and vocabulary to a 12  year old.  There are several pieces available in Warren Commission materials:

The Collective Life of a Russian Worker – WC Exhibit 92,   pg 287-336 Vol 16,

 

On Communism and Capitalism – WC Exhibit 25, pg 106-122 Vol 16

 

The Communist Party of the United States – WC pg 422-430 Vol 16

 

The Athenian System  / Outline and Principles pg 431-434 WC Exhibit 98 Vol 16

Trivia question Larry, but on that final title of Oswald, "The Athenian System", is it at all possible that is a misspelling (which Oswald's writing has in abundance) for "Atheian" as in "atheist" system? Oswald had no use for religion, that is known, but I know of no interest or theme in Oswald of fascination with ancient Greece. Nor is there anything in Oswald's "Athenian System" which relates to ancient Greece. And Oswald misspelled a lot. Of course "Atheian" from "atheist" is a made-up word, but why not. 

Has this ever been suggested before? It is what occurred to me when I saw it. That Oswald misspelled his own made-up word lol!  

Speaking of the content of these political writings, misspellings aside, it is striking that there is nothing outlandish, and the ideas themselves are coherent and sensible. No calls for violence or terrorism. A sort of limited-government socialism as an alternative to both Communism and American status quo (capitalism). It seems Oswald was more critical of Communism in contrast to seeing America as capable of being reformed in his vision. No calls to overthrow America, differing from most Marxists on that? 

Michael Paine said Oswald advocated violent overthrow of the US, but that does not seem confirmed in anything written by Oswald. And was Michael Paine's account corroborated by anyone else who knew Oswald? Not by de Mohrenschildt, not by Titovets, to my knowledge--and not in his writings. 

Not the writing of a 12 year old is right. Oswald was not educated, but was not stupid either. The notion that Oswald was barely literate or stupid is nonsense. 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:

Ben, I'd encourage you to read samples of Oswald's 1963 writing as a benchmark, compare both the content and vocabulary to a 12  year old.  There are several pieces available in Warren Commission materials:

The Collective Life of a Russian Worker – WC Exhibit 92,   pg 287-336 Vol 16,

 

On Communism and Capitalism – WC Exhibit 25, pg 106-122 Vol 16

 

The Communist Party of the United States – WC pg 422-430 Vol 16

 

The Athenian System  / Outline and Principles pg 431-434 WC Exhibit 98 Vol 16

Thanks Larry will do.

 

[Michael Crane]

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Michael Crane said:

BTW, my dad had that exact same camera. Teeny-weeny little film. Absolutely a beautiful instrument. 

[Larry Hancock]

Greg, Oswald had an abiding interest in social political structures and had come to believe  that both the Capitalist and Communist systems were "rigged" against the common man and kept individuals essentially abandoned individuals like his mother and himself and depressed economic levels with no way up and no political voice. He had expected better in Russia but found it rigged too - Titovits writes about that. So I suspect he was using the word literally in its classic political sense. 

"Greek democracy created at Athens was direct, rather than representative: any adult male citizen over the age of 20 could take part, and it was a duty to do so. The officials of the democracy were in part elected by the Assembly and in large part chosen by lottery in a process called sortition."

One of the things we have inherited is a very artificial view of Oswald's intelligence, when he was interested in something he tested quite well...in school, in the Marines (getting a relatively advanced job placement in Marine Air) and even in his job placement tests.  In the Marines his officers commented on his advanced level of knowledge of world politics and affairs and several people commented that he knew as much or more than his officers and was a jerk by bringing that up in conversations and making them look bad..intentionally. 

In at least one instance his job placement counselor commented that he was suited for much better jobs than he was getting but the problem was that he always needed jobs  urgently and was out of work and had to take more menial jobs than his tests indicated he might have gotten otherwise. He came across quite well in job interviews but reference were a problem for him given that he cycled though the jobs and most all of them were relatively menial.

On your last point, all of his writing suggests violence but it does support political change....and some sort of compromise in government systems, a position between Capitalism and Communism, which is why he leaned towards Socialism (he seems to have equated Marxism with Socialism not Communism).

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:

Greg, Oswald had an abiding interest in social political structures and had come to believe  that both the Capitalist and Communist systems were "rigged" against the common man and kept individuals essentially abandoned individuals like his mother and himself and depressed economic levels with no way up and no political voice. He had expected better in Russia but found it rigged too - Titovits writes about that. So I suspect he was using the word literally in its classic political sense. 

"Greek democracy created at Athens was direct, rather than representative: any adult male citizen over the age of 20 could take part, and it was a duty to do so. The officials of the democracy were in part elected by the Assembly and in large part chosen by lottery in a process called sortition."

One of the things we have inherited is a very artificial view of Oswald's intelligence, when he was interested in something he tested quite well...in school, in the Marines (getting a relatively advanced job placement in Marine Air) and even in his job placement tests.  In the Marines his officers commented on his advanced level of knowledge of world politics and affairs and several people commented that he knew as much or more than his officers and was a jerk by bringing that up in conversations and making them look bad..intentionally. 

In at least one instance his job placement counselor commented that he was suited for much better jobs than he was getting but the problem was that he always needed jobs  urgently and was out of work and had to take more menial jobs than his tests indicated he might have gotten otherwise. He came across quite well in job interviews but reference were a problem for him given that he cycled though the jobs and most all of them were relatively menial.

On your last point, all of his writing suggests violence but it does support political change....and some sort of compromise in government systems, a position between Capitalism and Communism, which is why he leaned towards Socialism (he seems to have equated Marxism with Socialism not Communism).

Terrific answer Larry. 

As much as I know, I concur. 

LHO also checked out some serious books from the New Orleans Public Library, and of course, conversed with people like Mohrenschildt and Titovets, both of whom held his intellect is reasonably high regard. 

I am surprised that some members of JFKA community have a dimmer view of LHO's intellectual capacities. A vestige perhaps of the Warren Commission presentation of LHO as a "leftie, loner, loser."  

I have finished reading his report on The Collective Life of a Russian Worker. 

For a 23-year-old, not a bad piece of work---and LHO was not a professional writer, and moreover the article reads like it might be intended as a first draft. With some cleaning up, a little editing help---I wonder how many could do better? 

None of this, of course, exonerates LHO.  It is just interesting, and worthwhile to keep in mind how images can be cast by media and government investigations. 

[Larry Hancock]

I agree Ben, I've increasingly come to feel that Oswald was put into a set of boxes...one from the Warren commission, one created as a public image even outside of the details actually in the WC investigation supplements and one by the research community (which I contributed to).  I'm working on breaking my view of him out of all three boxes to a view which includes his own views and agendas as drivers in his actions.  As you say, not that it exonerates him from anything but it may give a lot more nuanced view to just how vulnerable he was becoming during 1963.

And as far as his reading list, it was a lot more sophisticated than many of my contemporaries at his same age back then - certainly comparable to what some of us were reading at college level. 

[Greg Doudna]

Thanks Larry-- in support and agreement with your explanation that "Athenian" is what Oswald meant, apart from that is the word he wrote, is that Athenian democracy is a political term that Oswald would have read, whereas "atheism" has no obvious direct political system connotation. And as you say Oswald was seeking a third path that was neither Soviet communism nor American capitalism.  

From Nelson Delgado's WC testimony ...

Mr. Delgado.

Yes; and then he had this other book. I am still trying to find out what it is. It's about a farm, and about how all the animals take over and make the farmer work for them. It's really a weird book, the way he was explaining it to me, and that struck me kind of funny. But he told me that the farmer represented the imperialistic world, and the animals were the workers, symbolizing that they are the socialist people, you know, and that eventually it will come about that the socialists will have the imperialists working for them, and things like that, like these animals, these pigs took over and they were running the whole farm and the farmer was working for them.

Mr. Liebeler.

Is that what Oswald explained to you?

Mr. Delgado.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you tell the FBI about this?

Mr. Delgado.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did they know the name of the book?

Mr. Delgado.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

The FBI did not know the name of the book?

Mr. Delgado.

No. 

[Larry Hancock]

It appears the FBI agent was not as well read as Lee Oswald...hard to miss the reference to Orwell's Animal Farm..

[Matt Allison]

21 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Recently, an excellent JFKA researcher described LHO as having the writing skills of a 12-year-old, and not a bright one at that. 

Well that's rubbish.

His spelling was atrocious, but the ability to be a good speller and the ability to convey thoughts via writing are two different things.

Oswald was without question well above average in intelligence and wrote briefs about what he saw in Russia that just happened to end up in CIA files...