Hornberger, FFF on the "Fraudulent" JFKA Autopsy

[David Josephs]

On 7/17/2023 at 3:24 AM, Benjamin Cole said:

If I had to guess, the bullet that passed through JBC's back then penetrated his thigh, perhaps after fragmenting. 

His surgeon, Dr. Shaw, who had worked on literally hundreds (700+) of bullet wounds in WWII, thought it likely JBC's wrist wound resulted from a separate slug. 

Oddly, the bullet the entered JBC's wrist entered on the wristwatch side on the wrist, which would be nearly impossible from a slug passing through JBC's chest. 

Sheesh, an objective argument could be made that JBC alone was struck by two separate slugs. 

I am fuming that the Dictator-Puppet-in-Chief can get away with the snuff job on the JFK Records. 

You thoughts on JC got me remembering a graphic I did that i am sure you will appreciate...

Hope this helps with your thinking about when

[Benjamin Cole]

18 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

You thoughts on JC got me remembering a graphic I did that i am sure you will appreciate...

Hope this helps with your thinking about when

Yes---you see in Z-277 that JBC has done a 180-degree turn in his seat, just as he testified---after hearing the first shot (and after JFK shows signs of being shot). 

Some EF-JFKA'ers have said, "Yes, JBC turned around, did the 180-degree turn after being shot." 

Really? A slug ripped through JBC's back, took out four inches of rib, exited and took out three-four square inches of his front chest skin and flesh (a very large exit hole) --and then JBC turned around to check on JFK? 

JBC's testified he heard a shot, thought JFK might have been struck, turned to his own right and, saw nothing, and was turning forward again when he was stuck and pushed forward and incapacitated. Very believable. 

JBC is pushed forward about Z-295. Z-313 is when JFK was struck. Less than one second later. Bang....bang-bang. 

I don't understand why people argue for an earlier shot to JBC. 

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I don't understand why people argue for an earlier shot to JBC. 

Looking again at this graphic, one would be hard pressed not to see LC in what appears to be agony starting at z236 and especially after z244.

I am more of the opinion he was hit at least twice...  @W. Niederhut  Would Kellerman repeatedly and consistently stating he was aware of more than 3 shots, that Hill climbs on after the 2nd shot, that he accelerates after the 2nd shot and was in the car not 5 feet from JFK - would you say that helps debunk the WCR fable?

People, we gotta stop thinking along the lines of debunking the WCR - that is an incredibly easy task.  The ARRB laid the WCR to rest long ago.  By definition, showing what was actually going on, from Sponsor to Facilitator to Mechanic, destroys the WCR fable.  The April 1964 Redlich to Rankin memo shows us how far they had gone astray by that time and what the FBI and SS had done to the evidence, the lawyers knew about it and actually suggested the FBI and SS correct their work.

In June 1964 the FBI request surveyor Robert West to remove the 3rd shot down by the steps. CE585 is the result... but the trail of this deception is also easy to follow - if you have the source materials.

RANT ON: 
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WE HAVE IS WE ALL DO NOT SEE OR HAVE ACCESS TO THE SAME QUALITY EVIDENCE; OR EVEN THE SAME EVIDENCE FOR THAT MATTER.  NOT UNIFORMLY HAVING ACCESS TO HIGH QUALITY VERSIONS OF CRITICAL EVIDENCE LEAVES US FORMULATING CONCLUSIONS ON AMBIGUOUS AND IN MOST CASES FAR INFERIOR VERSIONS OF THE EVIDENCE THAN SHOULD BE THE CASE 60+ YEARS ON.

WILL THERE EVER BE A DAY WHEN RESEARCHERS NEW AND OLD CAN LOOK AT THE BEST VERSIONS AVAILABLE OF THESE CRITICAL ITEMS OF EVIDENCE AND BE ABLE TO COLLABORATE  WHILE ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD?

AND WHEN, FINALLY, WILL WE ACCEPT AS A COMMUNITY THAT THE EVIDENCE WE HAVE IS THE RESULT OF THIS CONSPIRACY, IN FACT THE CONSPIRACY ITSELF.  INSTEAD OF DEBUNKING, THOSE WHO SEE IT CAN USE IT TO DISCOVER THE TRUTHS HIDDEN BENEATH MILES OF DIRT
RANT OFF. 

 

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, you said earlier that there were at least two additional shots. Is there any area in your mind or possibility, as you recollect that situation, that there could have been more than two shots, or are you able to say with any certainty?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen.
Senator COOPER. What is that answer? What did he say?
Mr. SPECTER. Will you repeat that, Mr. Kellerman?
Mr. KELLERMAN. President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There have got to be more than three shots.

Remember we have at least 18 frames per second -JC's movements should bring up images of Kellerman's head turn in 2 frames - no missing frames here 

[Charles Blackmon]

Agreed it looks like JC is starting to display pain about Z-236. Also believe he was hit again with a second slug. 

[Micah Mileto]

On 7/16/2023 at 4:34 PM, James DiEugenio said:

 

Could a low-velocity exiting bullet have created the metallic tracings on the back hole in the shirt and coat?

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Looking again at this graphic, one would be hard pressed not to see LC in what appears to be agony starting at z236 and especially after z244.

I am more of the opinion he was hit at least twice...  @W. Niederhut  Would Kellerman repeatedly and consistently stating he was aware of more than 3 shots, that Hill climbs on after the 2nd shot, that he accelerates after the 2nd shot and was in the car not 5 feet from JFK - would you say that helps debunk the WCR fable?

People, we gotta stop thinking along the lines of debunking the WCR - that is an incredibly easy task.  The ARRB laid the WCR to rest long ago.  By definition, showing what was actually going on, from Sponsor to Facilitator to Mechanic, destroys the WCR fable.  The April 1964 Redlich to Rankin memo shows us how far they had gone astray by that time and what the FBI and SS had done to the evidence, the lawyers knew about it and actually suggested the FBI and SS correct their work.

In June 1964 the FBI request surveyor Robert West to remove the 3rd shot down by the steps. CE585 is the result... but the trail of this deception is also easy to follow - if you have the source materials.

RANT ON: 
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WE HAVE IS WE ALL DO NOT SEE OR HAVE ACCESS TO THE SAME QUALITY EVIDENCE; OR EVEN THE SAME EVIDENCE FOR THAT MATTER.  NOT UNIFORMLY HAVING ACCESS TO HIGH QUALITY VERSIONS OF CRITICAL EVIDENCE LEAVES US FORMULATING CONCLUSIONS ON AMBIGUOUS AND IN MOST CASES FAR INFERIOR VERSIONS OF THE EVIDENCE THAN SHOULD BE THE CASE 60+ YEARS ON.

WILL THERE EVER BE A DAY WHEN RESEARCHERS NEW AND OLD CAN LOOK AT THE BEST VERSIONS AVAILABLE OF THESE CRITICAL ITEMS OF EVIDENCE AND BE ABLE TO COLLABORATE  WHILE ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD?

AND WHEN, FINALLY, WILL WE ACCEPT AS A COMMUNITY THAT THE EVIDENCE WE HAVE IS THE RESULT OF THIS CONSPIRACY, IN FACT THE CONSPIRACY ITSELF.  INSTEAD OF DEBUNKING, THOSE WHO SEE IT CAN USE IT TO DISCOVER THE TRUTHS HIDDEN BENEATH MILES OF DIRT
RANT OFF. 

 

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, you said earlier that there were at least two additional shots. Is there any area in your mind or possibility, as you recollect that situation, that there could have been more than two shots, or are you able to say with any certainty?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen.
Senator COOPER. What is that answer? What did he say?
Mr. SPECTER. Will you repeat that, Mr. Kellerman?
Mr. KELLERMAN. President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There have got to be more than three shots.

Remember we have at least 18 frames per second -JC's movements should bring up images of Kellerman's head turn in 2 frames - no missing frames here 

Tough to read what JBC is feeling at Z-236. If he heard a gunshot, and a bullet smashed into the cab at the point, he could be showing alarm. 

Besides which, he does a 180-degree turn in his seat after that. 

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Besides which, he does a 180-degree turn in his seat after that. 

A body moving toward the direction of a shot after being hit is not so uncommon

Pinpointing reactions and their meanings is very difficult if not impossible.  From their testimonies though, it is evident that a bit of time elapsed between JFK being hit and JC being hit (1st time)... the first shot was pushed back to 190 to allow enough frames to pass for the 2nd shot "behind the sign" 

https://www.quora.com/What-makes-the-person-fall-towards-the-direction-of-a-bullet-that-shot-him-or-her-Does-bullet-force-cause-that#:~:text=People tend to fall in,would also move the shooter.

Jeffrey Williams
Former UH 60 Blackhawk Standardization Instructor at U.S. Army (2004–2016)

Typically people fall in various directions after being shot. Two things can cause a person to fall forward toward a shot. First is the pain reflex, think if you get punched in the stomach which way does your body curl up? This is to protect the wounded area, allow muscles to constrict harder providing protection from follow up injury, and to reduce the tension on the injured tissues. The other reason someone my fall forward is more physiological, depending on what the round damages, parts of the body providing support fail. This would cause the body to fall in the direction of the most significant loss of support. Think of a building demolition; you can control the direction the building falls by removing more supports on one side, something similar happens to the human body.

I read a fascinating article about the most effective place to shoot an enemy to remove the threat. The advice given was the pelvic girdle (basically belly button to the groin, hip to hip square) because it doesn't move much and it's the foundation for the entire body. From what I have seen, this type of injury causes the person to crumple directly to the ground. So bullet placement and the damage it does to the body greatly influences the bodies reaction, and final position.

One final thing, unless killed instantly or physically disabled, humans tend to end up rolling into the fetal position. This is an evolutionary reflex as we protect the soft front and is a last-ditch attempt from the body trying to protect itself by putting the hard back toward the threat.