Hornberger, FFF on the "Fraudulent" JFKA Autopsy

[James DiEugenio]

I don't believe we are arguing about something that never happened again.

Please show me how that back wound, which is larger than the anterior neck wound, connected up with it?

None of the HSCA declassified documents prove this.  At least six witnesses said that the angle of declination for the malleable probe was too downward to connect. (The JFK Assassination: The Evidence Today, by James DiEugenio, p. 141) And this is one reason they were classified.  In fact, Jenkins told Wiliam Law that it was simply not possible.The two FBI agents said that no one could find a passage through the body.  And that is one reason why Specter did not interview them for the WC.

But, if there had been a passage, why did Finck testify at the Shaw trial that they were stopped from dissecting the back wound?

That, to me, is the strongest evidence that there was no passage.

[David Josephs]

5 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I don't believe we are arguing about something that never happened again.

no arguments here Jim.  The Silly Bullet Theory has gone the way of Kellerman's pistol and the AR-15.

As I don't care to bother with whatever their responses were, viewing members can decide for themselves.  The images i posted and unanswerable questions asked make their "arguing" a worthless endeavor 

[James DiEugenio]

1 minute ago, David Josephs said:

no arguments here Jim.  The Silly Bullet Theory has gone the way of Kellerman's pistol and the AR-15.

As I don't care to bother with whatever their responses were, viewing members can decide for themselves.  The images i posted and unanswerable questions asked make their "arguing" a worthless endeavor 

I agree on each count.

[Gerry Down]

20 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I don't believe we are arguing about something that never happened again.

Please show me how that back wound, which is larger than the anterior neck wound, connected up with it?

None of the HSCA declassified documents prove this.  At least six witnesses said that the angle of declination for the malleable probe was too downward to connect. (The JFK Assassination: The Evidence Today, by James DiEugenio, p. 141) And this is one reason they were classified.  In fact, Jenkins told Wiliam Law that it was simply not possible.The two FBI agents said that no one could find a passage through the body.  And that is one reason why Specter did not interview them for the WC.

But, if there had been a passage, why did Finck testify at the Shaw trial that they were stopped from dissecting the back wound?

That, to me, is the strongest evidence that there was no passage.

According to Richard Lipsey, JFK had rigor mortis at the beginning of the autopsy. This may have affected the ability of the pathologists to manipulate the muscles of the back and neck to get the probe through. JFKs hand was in a raised position at the time of the SBT but was obviously in a position down by his side as rigor mortis was setting in while he was in the casket on the way to Bethesda. This would have moved the shoulder muscles downwards more than they were during the SBT when JFKs arm was in a raised position. This could account for then why the autopsy doctors were finding that the probe was going down at a 45 degree angle, but then hitting a dead end. 

[David Josephs]

13 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

the strongest evidence that there was no passage.

1. If the bullet continues on a downward trajectory it cannot exit the throat and hits the back of the front seat
2. if the bullet was deflected upward by hitting bone and exits the throat, it cannot hit Connally. on a 25 degree downward trajectory

What people said or not, who was controlling the autopsy, or even what they did simply no longer matters.  They dug their own graves the moment the reports were published.

The Evidence proves the Conspiracy.  "the WC and HSCA confirmed the SBT". 

 

(image reversed). Specter's pointer is resting on the man's shoulder when the proposed hole is 5+ inches below the collar.  Our man Ryberg shows the bullet descending thru JFK....   the rest is self-evident

Hope you and yours are well..

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Uh, yeah, not so much.

Difficulty in recreating the SBT is that it never happened, the bullet would need to rise by 11 degrees as it goes back to front after being shot from what you claim to be a 6th story building on a heavily downward trajectory.  Humes was specific in that it supposedly did not hit anything hard on the way thru.

JC's wound, after the bullet needs to rise by 11 degrees, as well as move right to left by 10 degrees; now switches to a downward angle of 25 degrees.

A 6.5mm bullet would leave a 1/4 inch hole from front to back as well as greatly disturb the tissues and organs it passes...  none of that happened.

Looking at this WCR evidence and frame 222, @Gerry Down - explain how shooting from this angle and hitting JFK where they showed... the bullet rises to exit the throat and does not exit his chest and hit the back of the front seat?

 

DJ-

Thanks for your comments. 

I believe there were at least two gunman in Dealey Plaza, or if one, then armed with a semi-automatic. 

Still, Humes and Boswell had no experience doing autopsies, and Finck had two years service in peacetime Germany. 

They may have not have known how to manipulate a probe through a human body, or perhaps an experienced pathologist would tell us, "Yes, sometimes that happens, the probe gets blocked by shifting muscles and body organs." 

I cannot find anyone asking an experienced pathologist is this ever happens. 

I think it is also possible the shot that passed through JFK came from lower, the second floor of the TSBD and Dal-Tex buildings. 

I strongly suspect JBC was shot by a separate slug, and possibly shot twice by separate slugs (the back and the wrist). 

In conclusion, highly intelligent people think JFK was shot from the front, and highly intelligent people think he was shot only from the rear----and both groups are CT'ers. 

IMHO, it is the timing of shots that is more conclusive of at least two shooters in Dealey Plaza.

My assessment is the autopsy was monkeyed with, and so too extant x-rays and photographs. Ergo, what we do we know from those sources? 

[David Josephs]

2 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

IMHO, it is the timing of shots that is more conclusive of at least two shooters in Dealey Plaza.

And what is the definitive source of information on the timing of the shots when the WCR comes out?

As opposed to this from January 1964

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10699 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

And what is the definitive source of information on the timing of the shots when the WCR comes out?

As opposed to this from January 1964

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10699 

 

Not sure what I should look for in linked doc.

My source for the timing of shots is myself, from viewing Z-film, and JBC's testimony, and testimony from Dr. Robert Shaw JBC's surgeon, and the small round hole in the rear of JBC's shirt worn on 11/22. 

I contend JBC is shot ~Z-295, and JFK is indisputably shot at Z-313. That is less than one second apart.

Others disagree with me, and think JBC was shot earlier. 

But JBC's testimony, in particular about being pushed forward and becoming immediately incapacitated, fit with Z-295.

Just IMHO. 

 

[David Josephs]

1 minute ago, Benjamin Cole said:

My source for the timing of shots is myself, from viewing Z-film

The link is the source for my article on Warren Comm Doc 298 - the FBI's explanation of the assassination so accurate one not need go to Dealey Plaza to comprehend what occurred... (para-phrased)

So yes, the Z-film. 

So when alteration is laid bare, like so many other deceptions, I'm pretty confident we'll see your 2, if not 3, sources of shots, as Dino told us so eloquently and Kellerman put bluntly

"6-8 shots from 3 directions"          "a flurry of shots"

 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 minute ago, David Josephs said:

The link is the source for my article on Warren Comm Doc 298 - the FBI's explanation of the assassination so accurate one not need go to Dealey Plaza to comprehend what occurred... (para-phrased)

So yes, the Z-film. 

So when alteration is laid bare, like so many other deceptions, I'm pretty confident we'll see your 2, if not 3, sources of shots, as Dino told us so eloquently and Kellerman put bluntly

"6-8 shots from 3 directions"          "a flurry of shots"

 

JBC testified shots were entering the cab of the limo as if from automatic weapons fire. 

Initially I thought he had misspoken, and meant "semi-automatic" weapons fire. 

But he repeated the phrase a few times, on film and to the HSCA. 

So JBC believed bullets entered the cab as if from automatic weapons fire. 

JBC is a curious character. He stuck to his testimony, which radically conflicted with WC findings. But he supported the WC conclusions.

I suspect JBC knew he had to, to have a subsequent political career. 

See what is happening to RFK Jr., who said out loud he suspects the CIA is connected to the JFKA. 

That would have happened to JBC. 

[David Josephs]

1 minute ago, Benjamin Cole said:

That would have happened to JBC. 

If he did know beforehand, and agreed to sit in front of Kennedy, as a soldier wouldn't you rather have someone shoot the man behind you from the front and reduce the chance of being hit, as opposed to from the rear with you virtually directly in front of him? 

Nobody seems to say it, wouldn't he have been a bit p issed about almost dying whether he knew before OR after.

Supreme loyalty to the cause (or fear) to tow the company line even after that.

[Benjamin Cole]

7 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

If he did know beforehand, and agreed to sit in front of Kennedy, as a soldier wouldn't you rather have someone shoot the man behind you from the front and reduce the chance of being hit, as opposed to from the rear with you virtually directly in front of him? 

Nobody seems to say it, wouldn't he have been a bit p issed about almost dying whether he knew before OR after.

Supreme loyalty to the cause (or fear) to tow the company line even after that.

IMHO, JBC knew nothing beforehand. 

Afterwards, JBC said what he thought was true, but toed the official story line as he was a career political operative. 

I am surprised JBC told the truth, as he saw it, about the actual shooting.

Others, as you know, thought the shots had come from the front, and then under pressure either reversed direction or became mute. 

 

 

[Michael Crane]

3 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Not sure what I should look for in linked doc.

My source for the timing of shots is myself, from viewing Z-film, and JBC's testimony, and testimony from Dr. Robert Shaw JBC's surgeon, and the small round hole in the rear of JBC's shirt worn on 11/22. 

I contend JBC is shot ~Z-295, and JFK is indisputably shot at Z-313. That is less than one second apart.

Others disagree with me, and think JBC was shot earlier. 

But JBC's testimony, in particular about being pushed forward and becoming immediately incapacitated, fit with Z-295.

Just IMHO. 

 

Being pushed forward could have been a result of braking (enough to allow Hill to get to JFK's limo)

When do you suppose the bullet that went into Conally's left thigh hit?

Edited July 17, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Michael Crane said:

Being pushed forward could have been a result of braking (enough to allow Hill to get to JFK's limo)

When do you suppose the bullet that went into Conally's left thigh hit?

If I had to guess, the bullet that passed through JBC's back then penetrated his thigh, perhaps after fragmenting. 

His surgeon, Dr. Shaw, who had worked on literally hundreds (700+) of bullet wounds in WWII, thought it likely JBC's wrist wound resulted from a separate slug. 

Oddly, the bullet the entered JBC's wrist entered on the wristwatch side on the wrist, which would be nearly impossible from a slug passing through JBC's chest. 

Sheesh, an objective argument could be made that JBC alone was struck by two separate slugs. 

I am fuming that the Dictator-Puppet-in-Chief can get away with the snuff job on the JFK Records. 

[Michael Crane]

13 hours ago, Michael Crane said:

Being pushed forward could have been a result of braking (enough to allow Hill to get to JFK's limo)

I should never have posted this.

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