Harvey Lee Oswald # 50

[Steve Thomas]

Item# 50 on my countdown of Harvey Lee Oswald document references:

50. Marine Corps Enlistment Card dated October 24, 1956. The name of the enlistee, Oswald, Harvey Lee is erased and Lee Harvey is typed over it.

This can be found on the Harvey and Lee website https://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html

This Enlistment Card is not found in the Marine Corps Records Warren Hearings and Exhibits, Folsom Exhibit Current Section: Folsom Ex 1 - Copy of U.S. Marine Corps record on Lee Harvey Oswald Volume XIX beginning on Page 656, https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136#relPageId=674

Fort Worth Star Telegram Updated November 23, 2018

https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/article3837441.html

“Attorney John T. Chidgey’s father, Marine 1st Sgt. John G. Chidgey, was head of recruiting for the Marines in the Fort Worth office at the Federal Courthouse. Shortly after the president was killed, he heard that Oswald had been a Marine and had signed up in Fort Worth. The elder Chidgey went to the basement of the building, found Oswald’s original “APPLICATION FOR ENLISTMENT AND INDIVIDUAL DATA CARD,” retrieved it and kept it.“

Steve Thomas

 

[Gerry Down]

3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Item# 50 on my countdown of Harvey Lee Oswald document references:

50. Marine Corps Enlistment Card dated October 24, 1956. The name of the enlistee, Oswald, Harvey Lee is erased and Lee Harvey is typed over it.

This can be found on the Harvey and Lee website https://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html

This Enlistment Card is not found in the Marine Corps Records Warren Hearings and Exhibits, Folsom Exhibit Current Section: Folsom Ex 1 - Copy of U.S. Marine Corps record on Lee Harvey Oswald Volume XIX beginning on Page 656, https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136#relPageId=674

Fort Worth Star Telegram Updated November 23, 2018

https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/article3837441.html

“Attorney John T. Chidgey’s father, Marine 1st Sgt. John G. Chidgey, was head of recruiting for the Marines in the Fort Worth office at the Federal Courthouse. Shortly after the president was killed, he heard that Oswald had been a Marine and had signed up in Fort Worth. The elder Chidgey went to the basement of the building, found Oswald’s original “APPLICATION FOR ENLISTMENT AND INDIVIDUAL DATA CARD,” retrieved it and kept it.“

Steve Thomas

 

Could this be an indicator that some people, when they hear the name Lee Harvey Oswald, they place emphasis on the name Harvey and then proceed to put the name out of order as Harvey Lee Oswald?

Could also be that Oswald occasionally went by the name Harvey. Though I don't believe there are any witnesses who state Oswald used do that 

[Bill Brown]

 

Was "Lee Harold Oswald" really the name of the person shot by Jack Ruby?  People get names wrong.  Sh*t happens.

[Gerry Down]

It's possible that as Lee had begun reading about communism when he was 15, he had become sensitive of racial injustice. Then from possibly reading a biography of his namesake, Robert E. Lee, that Oswald became aware of his attitudes to slavery and racism. This, on entering the marines, may have caused Oswald to want to use the first name of Harvey rather than Lee. And to continue using the name Harvey going forward. However when the marines realised Oswald had given them the wrong first name of Harvey, that did not match his birth cert, they made Oswald use his proper first name of Lee rather than his preferred first name of Harvey.

This theory could explain why the name was changed on that marine form.

[Bill Brown]

27 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

It's possible that as Lee had begun reading about communism when he was 15, he had become sensitive of racial injustice. Then from possibly reading a biography of his namesake, Robert E. Lee, that Oswald became aware of his attitudes to slavery and racism. This, on entering the marines, may have caused Oswald to want to use the first name of Harvey rather than Lee. And to continue using the name Harvey going forward. However when the marines realised Oswald had given them the wrong first name of Harvey, that did not match his birth cert, they made Oswald use his proper first name of Lee rather than his preferred first name of Harvey.

This theory could explain why the name was changed on that marine form.

 

Makes way more sense than the looney theory that Harvey and Lee were two different people.

 

[David Josephs]

..

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by David Josephs

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said:

 

Makes way more sense than the looney theory that Harvey and Lee were two different people.

 

Bill,

My research centers arund the use of the name, "Harvey Lee Oswald". It is not connected to the Harvey and Lee theory.

To me, Harvey Lee Oswald is a name, a file, a dossier that appears in State Department, FBI, CIA, Russian Government, Secret Service, U.S. Navy, and local Police Department files.

I have compiled a list of 50 such occasions where the name appears.

You can find a mostly complete bibliography of that list on page 39 of this Thread posted July 19, 2020 :

Was it really just a MOLE HUNT about "Oswald?"

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26529-was-it-really-just-a-mole-hunt-about-oswald/page/39/#comment-424788

Since then, I have found 6 others.

PS: I have to apologize to James Norwood. I just realized he brought this Marine Aapplication Card to my attention back on July 18, 2020 in the Thread I just referenced, and I completely missed it.

James, if you see this, my apologies.

Steve Thomas

Edited July 21, 2023 by Steve Thomas

[Jim Hargrove]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:38 PM, Bill Brown said:

Makes way more sense than the looney theory that Harvey and Lee were two different people.

Looney, you say?  How AWFUL it must be to be looney.  But... just asking...  Would you like to debate the evidence right here for the following statements?  Or would you just prefer to provide links claiming to debunk it all?  WHY NOT DEBATE HERE, ON THE JFK ASSASSINATION DEBATE FORUM?  Please, be brave and pick your topic from the statements below.

1.  Way back in 1948, one LHO was living at 101 San Saba in Benbrook while the other was at 3330 Willig St. (and then 7408 Ewing) in Fort Worth.

2. In 1953 the Russian-speaking LHO (Harvey) was sent to Youth House for truancy, fled to Stanley, North Dakota to avoid further entanglement with the NYC legal system, and started attending Beauregard JHS in New Orleans that fall, all the while the American-born LHO (Lee) had good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC.

3.  During the fall semester of 1954, Harvey attended Stripling School in Fort Worth while Lee attended Beauregard School in New Orleans,.

4. By the mid-1950s, both Oswalds had various sometimes conflicting jobs, which eventually required the FBI to destroy all the original employment (and school) records for both young men and to create a false employment and education legend.  The Social Security Administration refused to corroborate the Official Story® of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."

5. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: My favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.  Other examples from USMC unit diaries and testimony show how the two LHOs associated with completely different groups of Marines both early and late in their enlistment periods.

6. While Russian-speaking HARVEY was in the Soviet Union, American-born LEE was active briefly as an agent provocateur in NYC, working with Marita Lorenz and anti-Castro Cubans in and around Florida, visiting Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans, and much more.

7.  One Oswald never had a driver’s license and could not drive while the other had a valid Texas driver’s license and could drive, including doing work for Jack Ruby in 1963 involving cars.

8.   American-born LEE Oswald appeared in Baytown, TX on Labor Day weekend in 1963 attempting to purchase rifles from Fidel Castro’s friend and gun supplier Robert McKeown.  At the time, Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald and his family were on holiday with the Murrets at Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana.

9. In October 1963, two different young men, both claiming to be “Lee Harvey Oswald,” appeared before Texas Employment Commission employee Laura Kittrell, the first on October 3 and again a few days later, the second on October 22.   Ms Kittell told the HSCA’s Gaeton Fonzi that the second Oswald “looked the same,” and had “the same general outline and coloring and build, but there was something so different in his bearing.”

10. While the other Oswald was elsewhere, LEE Oswald visited the Sports Drome Rifle Range on Oct. 26, Nov. 9, Nov. 10, and again on Nov. 17, several times creating a scene and once shooting at another guy's target;

11. On Nov. 2 one LHO visited Morgan's Gun Shop in Fort Worth.

12. Also on Nov. 2 LEE Oswald visited the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership where he test drove a car at recklessly high speeds saying he would soon come into enough money to buy a new car.  (Remember that Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald did not have a driver’s license.)

13. On Nov. 6 or 7 LEE Oswald visited the Irving Furniture Mart for a gun part and was referred by the ladies there to the shop where Dial Ryder worked.

14. On Nov. 15, LEE Oswald went to the Southland Hotel parking garage (Allright Parking Systems) and applied for a job and asked how high the Southland Building was and if it had a good view of downtown Dallas.

15. On Nov. 20 “Oswald” hitch-hiked on the R.L. Thornton Expressway while carrying a 4 foot long package wrapped in brown paper and introduced himself to Ralph Yates as “Lee Harvey Oswald,” discussed the President's visit, and asked to be dropped across the street from the Texas School Book Depository (where Russian-speaking “Lee Harvey Oswald” was already working).

16. On Nov. 22, both LHOs were in Dealey Plaza.  One left in a bus and then a taxi; the other got into a Nash Rambler station wagon.

 

By all means, don't visit HarveyandLee.net!

[Ron Bulman]

Nice to see you post again after a long break Jim.  Regarding the looney tunes, lets put on some scooby doo and roll a couple of doobie do's.