Allen Dulles' Weekend at the Farm

[James DiEugenio]

This was for awhile lost.  But as I explain it was relocated.

I think this, combined with Dulles' visit to Truman to get him to retract his December 22, 1963 editorial about the CIA, are quite incriminating.

Dulles never got over being humiliated and exposed  by RFK during the Taylor Commission, and then being canned by JFK.

"That Kennedy, he thought he was a god!"

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/allen-dulles-weekend-at-the-farm 

[Paul Brancato]

Jim - have you read John Loftus book The Secret War Against the Jews? Much of the book is about Kim Philby’s  father! It’s astounding. Do you consider Loftus an important researcher? I bring this up here of course because Allen Dulles, and McCloy too, had extensive history with Nazis and their connections to American Corporate and Banking interests. I’m going to read your article - reread is probably more accurate. Do you think any study of the Dulles brothers can ignore their connections to Industrial pre and post war Germany? 
After reading, I see that it is a short article explaining that lost Dulles files have been relocated. Have you looked into any other important figures whose personal notes have gone missing? 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Paul Brancato

[James DiEugenio]

These were not missing.  They were "lost" for years.

The excuse was that the Dulles archive was reorganized. To the point that even the old reference numbers were not useful.

But Morrow kept on them until they relocated it.

As per Allen Dulles and his back story, I am pretty well informed on that.  Going all the way back to people like Lansing.

I read parts of the Loftus book.  I had problems with the sourcing.

[Steve Thomas]

18 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Dulles never got over being humiliated and exposed  by RFK during the Taylor Commission, and then being canned by JFK.

 

Jim.

Back in 2017, I addressed a post to Paul Brancato in a thread on Lyman Lemnitzer here:

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24205-the-finger-finally-points-to-pentagon-chief-lemnitzer/#comment-359751

In my post, I speculated on the idea of "Revenge as Motive" for JFK's assassination. At the time, I wrote:

"Lately, I've been speculating lately on "revenge as motive" for the hit on JFK.

Not so much for what he "might" do with respect to getting out of Vietnam, or eliminating the oil depletion allowance, etc., but for what JFK "had" done; and looking at the people who had been "exiled to the frontier". So far, I've come up with Lyman Lemnitzer and William King Harvey, who was transferred to Rome after the Cuban Missile Crisis. Remember his handwritten ZR/Rifle to use Corsicans rather than Mafia. Being CIA Station Chief in Rome would make him pretty well positioned to find some.

I think they sat out there in the boondocks and stewed.

In ancient Roman times, wasn't it the generals who had been banished to Gaul who were always stirring up trouble, with this legion or that legion always seemingly ready to "cross the Rubicon" at any moment?

Although they weren't exiled, I'd add Allen Dulles and Charles Cabell, who were forced into retirement rather than banished to the frontier."

I still wonder.

Steve Thomas

 

[W. Niederhut]

46 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Jim.

Back in 2017, I addressed a post to Paul Brancato in a thread on Lyman Lemnitzer here:

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24205-the-finger-finally-points-to-pentagon-chief-lemnitzer/#comment-359751

In my post, I speculated on the idea of "Revenge as Motive" for JFK's assassination. At the time, I wrote:

"Lately, I've been speculating lately on "revenge as motive" for the hit on JFK.

Not so much for what he "might" do with respect to getting out of Vietnam, or eliminating the oil depletion allowance, etc., but for what JFK "had" done; and looking at the people who had been "exiled to the frontier". So far, I've come up with Lyman Lemnitzer and William King Harvey, who was transferred to Rome after the Cuban Missile Crisis. Remember his handwritten ZR/Rifle to use Corsicans rather than Mafia. Being CIA Station Chief in Rome would make him pretty well positioned to find some.

I think they sat out there in the boondocks and stewed.

In ancient Roman times, wasn't it the generals who had been banished to Gaul who were always stirring up trouble, with this legion or that legion always seemingly ready to "cross the Rubicon" at any moment?

Although they weren't exiled, I'd add Allen Dulles and Charles Cabell, who were forced into retirement rather than banished to the frontier."

I still wonder.

Steve Thomas

 

Steve,

      On the subject of the revenge motive, (and Nazi bankers) I'm reminded of Prescott Bush reportedly saying that he "would never forgive" JFK for what he had done to Allen Dulles.

       Also, Cord Meyer, the former Yale Bulldog running Operation Mockingbird, must have resented JFK for his affair with Meyer's ex-wife, Mary Pinchot Meyer.

       FWIW, E. Howard Hunt had included Cord Meyer (and LBJ) in his death bed list of JFKA conspirators.

[Denny Zartman]

The question that comes to my mind is: was there any skullduggery involving any of the usual suspects regarding LBJ's addition to the ticket in 1960?

Stepping back like a neutral investigator, the traditional first question is "cui bono" who benefits? In my view it's hard to argue against the fact that Johnson the individual that benefited the most and the quickest. Did the conspirators just get lucky in that they had a compliant VP waiting in the wings?

But, as I see it, it can also be correctly asserted that Dulles had means, a motive and that he had a primary role in covering it up. We can't forget Warren and Russell had to be forced onto the commission by LBJ, while in contrast Dulles wanted to do it. From what I understand he assumed a leadership role from the beginning, giving the other members copies of a book that said most political assassinations are done by lone nuts.

And as Jim says, the personal pressuring of Truman and Dulles' presence at a CIA facility the weekend of the assassination when he had no formal employment by the government is also suspicious and incriminating.

[James DiEugenio]

Lisa Pease chimes in:

The dinner with Simpson on Saturday is very interesting since he connects to Rockefeller, Schroder and through that to Clay Shaw and Permindex.

Recall, Dulles' connection to Schroder as general counsel and how they funded Permindex.

Was Dulles meeting on Saturday to check in with the level above the CIA on the progress of the plot?

[Paul Brancato]

11 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Lisa Pease chimes in:

The dinner with Simpson on Saturday is very interesting since he connects to Rockefeller, Schroder and through that to Clay Shaw and Permindex.

Recall, Dulles' connection to Schroder as general counsel and how they funded Permindex.

Was Dulles meeting on Saturday to check in with the level above the CIA on the progress of the plot?

Who is Simpson? 
Linda - once we link Schroeder and Dulles to Permindex we are squarely in the international fascist milieu. Ultimately when I talk about post war Nazi inclusion into US Intelligence I’m thinking that borders lose meaning. Permindex represents that totally. 
Jim - Loftus had both official document sources and whitelblowing sources who he could not name. They corroborate each other. You have Kim Philby’s father in bed with the Saudis. Sounds like we inherited that. Then there is Kim Philby who bamboozled Angleton for a decade. But did he? What about the idea that the Soviets had as many Nazis working for them as we did. Not only was the Soviet Union blown up (where are we now though?) but US empire is self destructing too. Who benefits? Stateless billionaires. Maybe a bit simplistic but Angleton, fascist that he (and Hugh, his father) was, and Kim Philby with his fathers connections, meeting regularly for a decade. Robert Montenegro has indicated that he can trace the funding for Israel’s nuclear program to Nazis. Thinking out loud. 
Steve - good post. Same milieu ultimately. Revenge as motive, Dulles, Harvey, Lemnitzer, European fascists, Gehlen Org. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Paul Brancato

[James DiEugenio]

Who is Simpson?

Simpson was a very creative and important entrepreneur who worked with the Rockefellers a lot, and used them to make Schroders into a major house.  He and Dulles were the best of buds. After his brother, Dulles owed his career really to the Rockefellers. The Rockefellers made both Dulles brothers major players in the CFR.

And no I do not agree that we are somehow in the international fascist milieu with Schroder and Permindex.

As Mr. Metta has pointed out, Permindex had a lot of Israeli influence as well as the CIA.  And Bloomfield was soliciting the richest people in the world, including the Rockefellers and Rothschilds for funding.

Yes, Loftus did have some documents.  He also used a lot of nameless third person sources. Those kinds of sources can always corroborate.

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Steve:

Yes: Lemnitzer, Harvey, Dulles, Cabell.

And Harvey and Cabell were both in Europe at that time: Gladio?

Cabell's brother, Dallas mayor, had a CIA clearance, and somehow the ARRB put that in the NCR category: not considered relevant.

 

 

[Paul Brancato]

Didn’t Metta also prove, with documents, that Hans Globke funded Israel’s nuclear program - Dimona? 

[James DiEugenio]

In the second edition of his book, Metta clearly indicates that it was Soustelle who kept on financing and helping with Dimona even though DeGaulle had called it off. (pp. 347-54)

Let me add, i thought the first edition of that book was good.

The second edition is even better.  A really unique and valuable book about the CMC and modern Italy.

Edited July 31, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Denny,

I have never been able to find anything credible that denotes a sinister skullduggery about LBJ being placed on the ticket at the convention.

The best book on the subject is by Jeff Shesol called Mutual Contempt.

What I get is that JFK's upper level advisors, including Phil Graham, thought that LBJ was needed to carry some of the south. 

Bobby Kennedy really did not like this and he worked at cross purposes to get LBJ off.  Actually going to his suite.  Shesol concluded this was done on his own without JFK's permission.

As far as I can see, Johnson was chosen  for  practical political purposes. 

[Cliff Varnell]

3 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Steve,

      On the subject of the revenge motive, (and Nazi bankers) I'm reminded of Prescott Bush reportedly saying that he "would never forgive" JFK for what he had done to Allen Dulles.       

Prescott Bush (Skull & Bones, Brown Brothers Harriman partner) was a key ally of Allen Dulles.

So was Averell Harriman (Skull & Bones, Brown Brothers Harriman honcho).

Robert Lovett (Skull & Bones, Brown Brothers Harriman partner) tried to get Ike to fire Dulles.

I find this consistent with the speculation that Dulles was most useful to a Harriman/Bush enterprise Lovett knew nothing about.

My bet is on a struggle for control of international narcotics trafficking.

[Paul Brancato]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Who is Simpson?

Simpson was a very creative and important entrepreneur who worked with the Rockefellers a lot, and used them to make Schroders into a major house.  He and Dulles were the best of buds. Dulles owed his career really to the Rockefellers.

And no I do not agree that we are somehow in the international fascist milieu with Schroder and Permindex.

As Mr. Metta has pointed out, Permindex had a lot of Israeli influence as well as the CIA.  And Bloomfield was soliciting the richest people in the world, including the Rockefellers for money.

Yes, Loftus did have some documents.  He also used a lot of nameless third person sources. Those kinds of sources can always corroborate.

 

Jim - how on earth can you quote Metta’s book and deny the international fascist nature of Permindex? I’m 100 pages in and Metta’s research completely proves my point. If you are saying that because Permindex also had Jews in their structure that negates fascist and yes, Nazi ties to Permindex? Please explain!

Edited August 1, 2023 by Paul Brancato