Edwin Lopez: Oswald never visited embassies in Mexico City

[Pamela Brown]

Sandy,

I don't think it's fair to suggest that any of us is "believing the WC."

I hope you will agree with me that weighing and evaluating evidence and then forming a hypothesis is what research is all about...

Right now, I am working on an hypothesis that Lee was in MC, and so were others who, for whatever reason, were impersonating him and possibly also tracking his movements.  

To say that Lee *couldn't* have been at the consulate because there is no photo seems to be jumping to a conclusion.  For example, Lee could have anticipated the possibility of a camera and pulled up a jacket collar or in some other way took action to avoid being photographed.

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Pamela Brown

[Pamela Brown]

49 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Only the one from DURAN as posted above. 

Does this ring true for you Pamela?  Of the 1 or 2 places she sends people for visa photos SHE CAN'T REMEMBER? 

Would you supposed she'd send people miles away or within walking distance ?
Why would the WC not want to show DURAN the application w/photo in 1964?

CORNWELL - And what did you do with the photographs?
TIRADO - Stapled them.
CORNWELL - Stapled them?
TIRADO - Yes.
CORNWELL - On top of the application.
TIRADO - Yes.

 

If the man in the application photo was not the man AZCUE or DURAN describe or testify to, how can photos of our Oswald - the man they say was NOT the man in MX - how can the application photos be of the man they saw?

CORNWELL - So, from all the circumstances, did it appear to your that he just went somewhere locally and had the pictures made?
TIRADO - Yeah. I think that I already explained (to) him where he could take the photographs.
CORNWELL - You told him some locations in town where he could go? Were there some right in the neighborhood of the Consulate there?
TIRADO - That I don't remember.
CORNWELL - All right. But at any rate you knew of some place at the time, mentioned one or two places to him?
TIRADO - Yes.
CORNWELL - Correct?... Did you look at the photos when he brought them back, careful about to be sure that it was the same man who was standing in front of you?
TIRADO - Yes.

(DJ - again interesting they don't ask if the man on the application is the man who came to her desk.. just that the photo and the man matched.  

LOPEZ - Would you do me a favor and describe him for me now?
TIRADO - Yes.
LOPEZ - For example, let's start at the beginning. Was he tall, short?
TIRADO - Short.
LOPEZ - Short. Could you stand up for a minute, Gary?(Laughter.) Would you say he was as tall as Gary?
TIRADO - Yeah, more or less.
LOPEZ - Would you say he was taller than Gary?
TIRADO - No, I think just the same. He was about my size.
LOPEZ - About your height?
TIRADO - Yeah.
LOPEZ - Okay. And what's your height?
TIRADO - 160. I think 160 or 162.
LOPEZ - Was he skinny?
TIRADO - Yes. Skinny.  (DJ: I get the impression she misunderstood and is talking about herself here)
LOPEZ - Could you estimate how much he weighed?
TIRADO - About your weight, more or less.
LOPEZ - About my weight. We already went over...
TIRADO - He has stronger shoulders, perhaps, than yours.
LOPEZ - Just for the record, my weight is 199 pounds. You told us before he had a suit on.
TIRADO - That I don't remember very well. I think he was wearing a jacket but what I can remember is that he was not wearing nice clothers, expensive clothing. He was cheap, perhaps.

Interesting in that they showed DURAN the application (with or without photo in unknown) and she still describes a man possibly wearing a suit, very short, and although she says skinny, a 5'4" man almost 200 lbs is not skinny.

When AZCUE says the man wasn't the Oswald Ruby killed...  is he being honest?
When LITAMIL/9 says he was never there?
When we have reports regarding where he actually was which the FBI stonewalled
 

 

No mention of a sweater. 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

....although [Duran] says skinny, a 5'4" man almost 200 lbs is not skinny.

 

True. But 200 lb on a 5' 4" frame is very stocky. When Duran said the guy was about Lopez's weight, I think she was really saying about his build.

(I was surprised when he said he was 199 lb. I've only seen him once and that was in the mock trial. My recollection is that he looked very fit. He must be a tall guy, or is very muscular.)

So I think Duran meant the guy had a build like Eddie Lopez's but was only about 5' 4" tall.

When she said the guy was skinny, I think she meant not fat.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

44 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

I don't think it's fair to suggest that any of us is "believing the WC."

 

Why not? I believe a lot of things reported in the WCR. If somebody asked me why I believe something in particular in the report, I would give them my reasons.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

38 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

Lee could have anticipated the possibility of a camera and pulled up a jacket collar or in some other way took action to avoid being photographed.

 

The man had blond hair.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

56 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

Right now, I am working on an hypothesis that Lee was in MC, and so were others who, for whatever reason, were impersonating him and possibly also tracking his movements.

 

That answered my question. Thank you.

 

[James DiEugenio]

If Eddie weighed that in 1978 then he lost a lot of weight after.  I have met him on four occasions since and there is no way he is that weight.  

Secondly, about Nosenko saying Oswald was in Mexico City.  

In John Newman's book Uncovering Popov's Mole, he makes a good case that Nosenko was not a genuine defector.  That he was in fact sent over by the KGB.  As the KGB told Nagell, they needed to protect themselves from any suspicions about sinister connections with Oswald before the fact.

If that thesis is true then this explains why those three KGB officers did what they did with their Chekovian Oswald tale. 

Nice one David, Peter did not have to wait for long.

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Pamela Brown]

On 9/5/2023 at 3:24 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

The man had blond hair.

 

There could also have been another entrance that did not have surveillance...

[Pamela Brown]

On 9/5/2023 at 5:46 PM, James DiEugenio said:

If Eddie weighed that in 1978 then he lost a lot of weight after.  I have met him on four occasions since and there is no way he is that weight.  

Secondly, about Nosenko saying Oswald was in Mexico City.  

In John Newman's book Uncovering Popov's Mole, he makes a good case that Nosenko was not a genuine defector.  That he was in fact sent over by the KGB.  As the KGB told Nagell, they needed to protect themselves from any suspicions about sinister connections with Oswald before the fact.

If that thesis is true then this explains why those three KGB officers did what they did with their Chekovian Oswald tale. 

Nice one David, Peter did not have to wait for long.

 

Nosenko may have considered himself a genuine defector while being set up by those above him.  

[Pamela Brown]

On 9/5/2023 at 3:29 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

That answered my question. Thank you.

 

I am quite comfortable agreeing-to-disagree.

In fact, I spent an entire day with Ken Rahn some time ago, at the Minnesota State Fair, where we agreed on absolutely nothing but had a great time...

[Pamela Brown]

On 9/4/2023 at 3:47 PM, Steve Roe said:

The photo that was used on Oswald's Cuban Visa application was found in Oswald's possessions. They are one and the same (a copy). It was shown to Marina, and she didn't recognize it, but she recognized the tan pullover sweater.

The Visa photo was stapled to the application when it was sent off to Havana. The other photo found in Oswald's possessions, naturally did not have a staple mark.

The plausible answer was Oswald had one or more of those photos with him and took it down to Mexico City. That would explain why the FBI could not find any local photo shops in Mexico City that remembered him taking pictures. Even though Duran told him where to go take a visa photo, most likely he went back to his room and submitted the photo in his possession for his application. The clothes Oswald wore at the Cuban Consulate did not match what he had on in the visa photo. 

The tan pullover sweater is CE 161 (FBI Q188). It was found at Beckley.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=544 

Oswald was in Mexico City, and there's plenty of evidence to back it up. 

Something else that intrigues me is the Russians' description of their experience with Lee, agitated, emotional, claiming the FBI was tracking him, and the Lee James Hosty experienced, who wrote a note complaining about the FBI contacting his wife, and who was agitated and emotional to the point of refusing to take Hosty's questions after he asked him about Mexico City...

 

[Steve Roe]

39 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

Something else that intrigues me is the Russians' description of their experience with Lee, agitated, emotional, claiming the FBI was tracking him, and the Lee James Hosty experienced, who wrote a note complaining about the FBI contacting his wife, and who was agitated and emotional to the point of refusing to take Hosty's questions after he asked him about Mexico City...

 

Hi Pamela. I think Oswald was growing impatient with getting nowhere with the Soviets or the Cubans for his transit visa. I can see Oswald getting agitated and frustrated about it, especially when Hosty brought up Mexico City. I'm sure Oswald was angry about that, confirming his belief the FBI was tailing him. 

[Pamela Brown]

53 minutes ago, Steve Roe said:

Hi Pamela. I think Oswald was growing impatient with getting nowhere with the Soviets or the Cubans for his transit visa. I can see Oswald getting agitated and frustrated about it, especially when Hosty brought up Mexico City. I'm sure Oswald was angry about that, confirming his belief the FBI was tailing him. 

He was. It is hard to imagine what Lee thought he was doing, expecting to get a visa for Cuba right away.  I can't imagine his frustration, knowing he had only a few days...

Lee was angry with Hosty before he even met him, so, yes, it all came out in the interview with Hosty on 11.22.63.  I think Mexico City was just the final straw...

Edited September 10, 2023 by Pamela Brown

[David Josephs]

3 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

There could also have been another entrance that did not have surveillance...

Rif#104-10185-10266. 175 pages of LITAMIL/9 reports

Edited September 10, 2023 by David Josephs

[James DiEugenio]

In addition to the declassified record above produced by Mr. Josephs, the day after the assassination, no one at the Russian Embassy mentioned Oswald being there.