VIDEO: Firing the Mannlicher-Carcano Rifle

[Gil Jesus]

Notice how the rifle ejects the shells backwards and to the right. All of the shells found on the sixth floor of the TSBD were located in FRONT of the alleged shooting position. Notice also that although the clip is in the rifle, it is not visible in the ejection port at the bottom of the weapon. And finally, the clip is ejected when the last round is chambered.

 

 

[Gerry Down]

The shells look to be coming out directly to the side of the rifle to me. As the rifle was angled about 45 degrees laterally in the horizontal plane in the snipers nest, this would send the shells forward into the boxed off area of the snipers nest where they were later found.

[Mark Ulrik]

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

The shells look to be coming out directly to the side of the rifle to me. As the rifle was angled about 45 degrees laterally in the horizontal plane in the snipers nest, this would send the shells forward into the boxed off area of the snipers nest where they were later found.

Yeah, but with the spent shells bouncing off the boxes and rolling on the floor, it's hard to predict where they're going to come to rest.

The video that Gil uploaded to his own channel is a small portion of an original video by an uncredited content creator. Here's another portion where the shells are clearly coming out to the side:

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Mark Ulrik

[Gerry Down]

As the clip was found in the rifle after the assassination, does this mean LHO never cycled bullet #4 into the chamber? 

I had always thought LHO had automatically cycled bullet #4 into the chamber getting ready for a 4th shot but on seeing Kennedy's head explode decided not to fire. But if the clip was still inside the rifle then LHO must not have cycled bullet #4 into the chamber.

So when Fritz said he ejected the 4th bullet, what did he have to do to eject that bullet?

[Mark Ulrik]

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

As the clip was found in the rifle after the assassination, does this mean LHO never cycled bullet #4 into the chamber? 

I had always thought LHO had automatically cycled bullet #4 into the chamber getting ready for a 4th shot but on seeing Kennedy's head explode decided not to fire. But if the clip was still inside the rifle then LHO must not have cycled bullet #4 into the chamber.

So when Fritz said he ejected the 4th bullet, what did he have to do to eject that bullet?

Check out this portion where the guy has to "help" the clip fall out:

 

[Gerry Down]

4 minutes ago, Mark Ulrik said:

Check out this portion where the guy has to "help" the clip fall out:

 

Thanks 👍

So maybe Oswald did cycle that last round afterall. And then Fritz ejected it which was a good thing to do from a safety point of view.

[Mark Ulrik]

[Bill Brown]

Harold Norman heard:

 

Boom.  Click click.

Boom.  Click click.

Boom.  Click click.

[Gerry Down]

7 minutes ago, Mark Ulrik said:

A picture is worth a thousand words. 

[Gil Jesus]

17 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

The shells look to be coming out directly to the side of the rifle to me. As the rifle was angled about 45 degrees laterally in the horizontal plane in the snipers nest, this would send the shells forward into the boxed off area of the snipers nest where they were later found.

Except that Capt. Fritz picked up the shells and examined them before Lt. Day arrived and could take pictures and dust them for fingerprints.

Which means that unless Fritz placed them in the EXACT spots they were when he picked them up, the locations of the shells in the crime scene photographs are not accurate. The photos were taken AFTER Fritz had picked up the shells.

The fact that Day and Studebaker arrived AFTER Fritz is reflected in the testimony of Det. Richard Sims, who arrived at the scene with Fritz and testified that they, "waited for the arrival of Lt. Day with the Crime Lab to take pictures of the scene" ( 7 H 163 ).

The question then becomes why did Fritz contaminate the crime scene by picking up the shells ?

It also brings to mind the question: if Fritz picked the shells up, how can we be sure the shells he dropped back on the floor were the same shells he picked up ?

Why wasn't Deputy Mooney required to mark the shells he found ?

Why weren't the shells marked by Lt. Day at the scene ?

Why did Lt. Day dust the same shells TWICE ?

Why were they placed in an unsealed envelope, where they remained for the next 8 1/2 hours ?

Why did Lt. Day wait until 10 pm that evening to mark the shells ?

There's plenty of opportunity here for evidence substitution. It's hard to imagine a professional law enforcement agency handling the evidence so poorly, especially in the biggest murder case in the history of the country.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Gil Jesus

[Gerry Down]

48 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

Except that Capt. Fritz picked up the shells and examined them before Lt. Day arrived and could take pictures and dust them for fingerprints.

Which means that unless Fritz placed them in the EXACT spots they were when he picked them up, the locations of the shells in the crime scene photographs are not accurate. The photos were taken AFTER Fritz had picked up the shells.

The fact that Day and Studebaker arrived AFTER Fritz is reflected in the testimony of Det. Richard Sims, who arrived at the scene with Fritz and testified that they, "waited for the arrival of Lt. Day with the Crime Lab to take pictures of the scene" ( 7 H 163 ).

The question then becomes why did Fritz contaminate the crime scene by picking up the shells ?

It also brings to mind the question: if Fritz picked the shells up, how can we be sure the shells he dropped back on the floor were the same shells he picked up ?

Why wasn't Deputy Mooney required to mark the shells he found ?

Why weren't the shells marked by Lt. Day at the scene ?

Why did Lt. Day dust the same shells TWICE ?

Why were they placed in an unsealed envelope, where they remained for the next 8 1/2 hours ?

Why did Lt. Day wait until 10 pm that evening to mark the shells ?

There's plenty of opportunity here for evidence substitution. It's hard to imagine a professional law enforcement agency handling the evidence so poorly, especially in the biggest murder case in the history of the country.

So the shells might have been photographed after they were moved. Doesn't change the fundamentals of the case.

The evidence in the OJ Simpson case was mishandled too. Does that mean OJ was innocent?

[Gil Jesus]

50 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

So the shells might have been photographed after they were moved. Doesn't change the fundamentals of the case.

 

ROFLMAO

It most certainly does. Once as crime scene is contaminated, any evidence collected from it is inadmissable.

Aren't you the guy who said, "As the rifle was angled about 45 degrees laterally in the horizontal plane in the snipers nest, this would send the shells forward into the boxed off area of the snipers nest where they were later found" ?

Well the shells weren't sent forward, as told by newsman Tom Alyea.

This post from researcher Jerry McLeer:

Former WFAA newsman Tom Alyea entered the Texas School Book Depository before it was sealed off, and was the only newsman on the scene as the Dallas Police searched the building. Alyea has stated:

The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows extending in an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the first and second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a minimum of 5 ft. I Looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings laying on the floor in front of the second window in the two window casement. They were scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel basket. They were located about half way between the inside of the barricade and the low brick wall under the windows. No shell casings were touching the wall or the inside of the barricade.

But the crime scene photographs show a wider dispersion and two of the three shells against the wall.

Alyea goes on: 

I set my lens focus at the estimated distance from the camera to the floor and held the camera over the top of the barricade and filmed them before anybody went into the enclosure. I could not position my eye to the camera's view finder to get the shot. After filming the casings with my wide angle lens, from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz, who was standing at my side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a close-up shot of the casings. He told me that it would be better if I got my shots from outside the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and entered the enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the barricade and the windows.

Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in his hand over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the evidence. I filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell casings in Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do not recall if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the floor, because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime scene. I have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the Captain of Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was the first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that he was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and photo records.

Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window by Connie Kritzberg

I notice that you didn't answer any of the questions I raised. Feel free to anytime.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Gil Jesus

[Gerry Down]

51 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

ROFLMAO

It most certainly does. Once as crime scene is contaminated, any evidence collected from it is inadmissable.

Aren't you the guy who said, "As the rifle was angled about 45 degrees laterally in the horizontal plane in the snipers nest, this would send the shells forward into the boxed off area of the snipers nest where they were later found" ?

Well the shells weren't sent forward, as told by newsman Tom Alyea.

This post from researcher Jerry McLeer:

Former WFAA newsman Tom Alyea entered the Texas School Book Depository before it was sealed off, and was the only newsman on the scene as the Dallas Police searched the building. Alyea has stated:

The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows extending in an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the first and second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a minimum of 5 ft. I Looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings laying on the floor in front of the second window in the two window casement. They were scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel basket. They were located about half way between the inside of the barricade and the low brick wall under the windows. No shell casings were touching the wall or the inside of the barricade.

But the crime scene photographs show a wider dispersion and two of the three shells against the wall.

Alyea goes on: 

I set my lens focus at the estimated distance from the camera to the floor and held the camera over the top of the barricade and filmed them before anybody went into the enclosure. I could not position my eye to the camera's view finder to get the shot. After filming the casings with my wide angle lens, from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz, who was standing at my side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a close-up shot of the casings. He told me that it would be better if I got my shots from outside the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and entered the enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the barricade and the windows.

Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in his hand over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the evidence. I filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell casings in Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do not recall if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the floor, because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime scene. I have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the Captain of Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was the first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that he was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and photo records.

Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window by Connie Kritzberg

I notice that you didn't answer any of the questions I raised. Feel free to anytime.

 

 

So what might have happened is that Fritz picked up the shells and then put them back down in the same area where they were then photographed. That would make them the same shells. 

[Tom Gram]

15 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Harold Norman heard:

 

Boom.  Click click.

Boom.  Click click.

Boom.  Click click.

Even if Norman really did and was able to hear the bolt action of a rifle and shells hitting the floor from his position, which is debatable, this is misleading. Norman clearly states in his Dec. 4th Secret Service affidavit that he did not hear three evenly spaced shots. He heard one shot then “several seconds later” heard “two more shots”, which makes him a bang…bang bang witness like the majority of ear witnesses in DP. Norman also gave the same timing sequence in an earlier statement to the FBI. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Sean Coleman]

Fritz……picked up the shells???!!!!

Is he a real copper?… evidence, crime scene, fingerprints???

What a crank. Unless HIS fingerprints negated all others on the shells?

UN…believable.