Paul Landis could be right after all. Here's how.

[Sandy Larsen]

On 9/17/2023 at 4:09 AM, Paul Bacon said:

When I saw Landis on CNN last Tuesday, he said (aside from putting CE-399 in his pocket) that there were two bullet fragments sitting in a pool of blood on the back seat.  He said he picked one up, and then put it back down.

 

When I read this, I had an Aha! moment. There were both a whole bullet and a fragment! (And a second fragment.)

I have a hypothesis that requires only two simple speculations to explain all of the differing Landis stories.

 

Following is my hypothesis. Ive highlighted in red the parts that are speculative.

On Nov. 22, 1963, Secret Service Agent Paul Landis found a whole bullet and two bloody fragments on the top of the back of the rear seat, where the top of the limo attaches to the body. He picked one of the fragments up and then put it back. He put the whole bullet in his pocket and later placed it on JFK's gurney, near his feet.

The 1983, an AP reporter interviewed Landis for a news article. At that time, Landis was wondering if the whole bullet he'd found could be the controversial magic bullet. So he decided not to mention it or the stretcher incident. Instead, he said that he pocketed a fragment.* When the reporter asked what he did with it, quick-thinking Landis said he gave it to someone. The New York Times published the article.

That would essentially be the untrue story Landis used to protect himself from then on. As indicated by a later 1988 article where Landis is quoted as saying, "I distinctly remember there was a bullet fragment on the seat which I picked up and handed to somebody." Though later on the story evolved into putting the fragment back down on the seat, and instead pocketing a Zippo lighter with a presidential seal on it. As indicated by the 2010 book, The Kennedy Detail.

In 2014 Landis told the true story to Clint Hill. He told him that he placed the whole-bullet on Kennedy's gurney. Clint Hill thought at the time that gurneys were left in the hallway when patients were taken into emergency rooms. (That's exactly what I thought.... until now.) So nine years later, 2023 comes along and Clint Hill (incorrectly) recalls that Landis said the Gurney was in the hallway when he placed the bullet

 

*Another possible reason why Landis hid the whole-bullet incident is that he was embarrassed that he'd taken evidence. He wasn't embarrassed saying he pocketed a fragment because he could say that he was concerned the fragment might get lost. That is actually what he said in the 2010 book, that the fragment could get blown off the seat by the wind.

 

[James DiEugenio]

Nice work Sandy.  

 

 

[Craig Carvalho]

If Landis is telling the truth, it could explain many things that until now made little sense.

According to many of the Warren Commission critics, myself included, a trajectory through both the president and governor Connally would have indeed required some "magic" as Kennedy's back wound, documented by his personal physician Admiral Berkley, and it's location in the autopsy photograph, was anatomically lower than the wound in his throat when observed and described as an entrance wound by Dr. Malcolm Perry at Parkland Memorial Hospital. Viewed as a "back to front" wound this resulted in an upwards trajectory through Kennedy's body of approximately 12 degrees. Anyone who has ever heard Dr. Cyril Wecht speak on this understands the rest of the argument.

This revelation allows us to see the mirror image of this scenario, making the throat wound a wound of entrance as Dr. Perry surmized, and the back wound as it's point of exit. According to Paul Landis this "whole" bullet came to rest on the top of the vertical seat cushion, where the seat meets the rear deck of the car.

Thus, instead of the Warren Commissions "back to front" trajectory we can see for the first time what it may truly have been... a "front to back" trajectoy with a downward angle of approximately 12 degrees. If we trace this wound backwards from the point of impact, (frame 226 of the Zapruder film), it leads us back to where the acoustics evidence placed the second gunman. Governor Connally can now be struck simultaneously by a shot from the Texas School Book Depository without the need for "magic" of any kind.

I have in my possession a full-size copy of the "corrected" surveyors plot of Dealey Plaza used during the HSCA's hearings in 1978. I am in no way an expert on this topic, but I will be closely examining all the available data therein in an attempt to calculate and verify if such a shot was possible.

I have pre-orederewd a copy of Mr. Landis' new book. I look forward to reading it. 

[David Von Pein]

7 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Furthermore, he [Landis] found a whole bullet on top of the seat (where one's butt sits).

Did you mean for the above sentence to be in red (as "speculative"), Sandy? Because if not, then you've got it wrong, because Landis is definitely NOT saying he found the whole bullet on the back seat itself (i.e., where a passenger actually sits). He's claiming the whole bullet he found was up on TOP of the back seat "where the cushioning meets the trunk of the car" (direct quote from Landis in his recent NBC interview, below).

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Benjamin Cole]

I think Sandy Larsen does offer a reasonable explanation of Landis' accounts of 11/22. 

In the stresses of that horrible day, Landis made a mistake. 

Then he did not want to highlight his error. 

He quit the Secret Service shortly thereafter. 

I do wonder who really is the author of Landis' book, and it appears to be a guy named Jim Robenalt. 

So, who is Robenalt? 

 

[Steven Kossor]

Landis states at 14:20 in the NBC interview that the bullet he found was "a pristeen bullet" and that it was on the top of the back of the rear seat (where the seat meets the metal of the trunk).  Elsewhere, he says that the two fragments he also found were laying on the rear seat, and bloody.  The bullet he claims to have placed onto JFK's gurney was a whole bullet, marked only by "striations" from the barrel of the rifle (not mushroomed, or otherwise deformed).  It could have been CE 399.  Landis does not describe whether it had a blunt tip or a pointed tip, only that it was a "whole bullet" and he says it several times in this NBC interview. 

The question I have is how this priseen bullet could have managed to locate itself at the top of the back seat, near the junction of the seat back and the metal of the trunk.  Perhaps it popped out of JFK's back wound while he was bent-over (without getting caught by the shirt and jacket), and flipped itself onto the top of the back of the rear seat for Paul to notice and retrieve from that location.  For me, the most important thing about Landis' account is that the bullet he claims to have placed onto JFK's gurney (in this video he says he put it "near his feet" but elsewhere it's reportedly placed "next to his head"), was a complete bullet, not a fragment, and that needs to be confirmed unequivocally (if such a thing is possible in the JFKA).

(link above)

Edited September 18, 2023 by Steven Kossor

[Steven Kossor]

It's starting to look like everybody who was involved in the "discovery" of a whole bullet on Connelly's gurney, and the proffering of an explanation for it that corroborated the possibility of a single shooter being the only one firing during the JFKA, is implicated in a coordinated cover-up (way above the level of the Mafia) that persisted for 60 years.  The media is complicit in this, for sure, especially CBS, considering all of the research time and effort that went into the various productions that showed how "the single bullet" could have caused all of the wounds in two men within the narrow span of time in which the wounds had to have been inflicted.  And then there's Paul's account of finding the thing just laying around, and thoughtfully putting it "where it wouldn't be lost as evidence."  Yikes.

[Paul Bacon]

Here's a link to Tapper's interview last Tuesday.

I watched it again and I'm incorrect that Landis identified the bullet as CE-399.  That was just CNN repeatedly showing pictures of that bullet.  We still don't know if Landis would describe the bullet as a rounded tip or a pointy tip.

He does say that he placed the bullet at JFK's feet on an "exam" table, not gurney.  

https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2023/09/13/the-lead-paul-landis-jake-tapper-live.cnn

Edited September 18, 2023 by Paul Bacon
add sentance

[David Von Pein]

38 minutes ago, Paul Bacon said:

He does say that he placed the bullet at JFK's feet on an "exam" table, not gurney.  

But it's really CNN host Jake Tapper who identifies it (incorrectly) as an "exam table". Landis just seems to follow Tapper's incorrect lead, for some reason. *

* It's incorrect because we know that JFK was never put on any "exam table" in Trauma Room One, a fact confirmed by various Parkland witnesses, including Dr. Robert McClelland, as I discuss at another forum here.

In various other interviews, Landis unquestionably says he put the bullet on JFK's stretcher, right next to Kennedy's feet.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

8 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Did you mean for the above sentence to be in red (as "speculative"), Sandy? Because if not, then you've got it wrong, because Landis is definitely NOT saying he found the whole bullet on the back seat itself (i.e., where a passenger actually sits).

 

Thanks for pointing that out, Dave. At least one thing I'd read made it sound like the whole bullet came from the top of the seat, where one sits. Or at least that was the impression I got. I will adjust my hypothesis to account for that.

 

[Pamela Brown]

I think we should take a step back and realize we need to put all this 'new' info from Landis into the context of the Ongoing Coverup.  Is there really something to be learned, or are we just supposed to go around in circles for the next few months...

It has go to through the 'possibly real or designed to distract us' litmus test...

Major cable networks seem to be pushing this book.

These are the same outlets that trolled conspiracy in 2013, for example, only to end up with 'the man Jackie called "that silly little Communist"'...(Geraldo Rivera's words)

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Paul Bacon said:

I'm incorrect that Landis identified the bullet as CE-399.  That was just CNN repeatedly showing pictures of that bullet.  We still don't know if Landis would describe the bullet as a rounded tip or a pointy tip.

In some of Mr. Landis' recent spate of interviews, he has definitely implied that it's his opinion that the whole bullet he allegedly found in the limo was, indeed, Bullet CE399. He says as much in the interview below from four days ago (Sept. 14th). In this interview, at the 4:50 mark, Landis says that the whole bullet found by Darrell Tomlinson is "my bullet; that's the bullet I found".

So, based on those remarks, Mr. Landis certainly seems to be of the opinion that the whole bullet he (allegedly) found was CE399.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Michael Griffith]

16 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

When I read this, I had an Aha! moment. There were both a whole bullet and a fragment! (And a second fragment.)

I have a hypothesis that requires only two simple speculations to explain all of the differing Landis stories.

Following is my hypothesis. Ive highlighted in red the parts that are speculative.

On Nov. 22, 1963, Secret Service Agent Paul Landis found a whole bullet and two bloody fragments on the top of the back of the rear seat, where the top of the limo attaches to the body. He picked one of the fragments up and then put it back. He put the whole bullet in his pocket and later placed it on JFK's gurney, near his feet.

The 1983, an AP reporter interviewed Landis for a news article. At that time, Landis was wondering if the whole bullet he'd found could be the controversial magic bullet. So he decided not to mention it or the stretcher incident. Instead, he said that he pocketed a fragment.* When the reporter asked what he did with it, quick-thinking Landis said he gave it to someone. The New York Times published the article.

That would essentially be the untrue story Landis used to protect himself from then on. As indicated by a later 1988 article where Landis is quoted as saying, "I distinctly remember there was a bullet fragment on the seat which I picked up and handed to somebody." Though later on the story evolved into putting the fragment back down on the seat, and instead pocketing a Zippo lighter with a presidential seal on it. As indicated by the 2010 book, The Kennedy Detail.

In 2014 Landis told the true story to Clint Hill. He told him that he placed the whole-bullet on Kennedy's gurney. Clint Hill thought at the time that gurneys were left in the hallway when patients were taken into emergency rooms. (That's exactly what I thought.... until now.) So nine years later, 2023 comes along and Clint Hill (incorrectly) recalls that Landis said the Gurney was in the hallway when he placed the bullet

*Another possible reason why Landis hid the whole-bullet incident is that he was embarrassed that he'd taken evidence. He wasn't embarrassed saying he pocketed a fragment because he could say that he was concerned the fragment might get lost. That is actually what he said in the 2010 book, that the fragment could get blown off the seat by the wind.

Even Landis's account of the two back-seat bullet fragments is problematic for the lone-gunman theory, because the only two fragments in the official record, CE 567 and CE 569, were found on the floor in the front of the limousine.

So whether Landis saw a whole bullet or two fragments in the back seat, he saw ballistics evidence that the lone-gunman scenario cannot explain. 

Are WC apologists going to claim that Landis saw neither a bullet nor two fragments? That he imagined or made up all of his accounts? One way or another, they will find excuses to dismiss this historic evidence.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[David Von Pein]

15 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

Even Landis's account of the two back-seat bullet fragments is problematic for the lone-gunman theory, because the only two fragments in the official record, CE 567 and CE 569, were found on the floor in the front of the limousine.

So whether Landis saw a whole bullet or two fragments in the back seat, he saw ballistics evidence that the lone-gunman scenario cannot explain. 

Are WC apologists going to claim that Landis saw neither a bullet nor two fragments? That he imagined or made up all of his accounts? One way or another, they will find excuses to dismiss this historic evidence.

Allow me to re-post something I said five days ago.....

[Quote On:]

"FWIW....

Here's what I think happened....

Paul Landis really did see and pick up a bullet fragment (not a whole bullet) off of the back seat of the Presidential limousine at Parkland Hospital on November 22, 1963. He then might very well have given that fragment to someone else nearby, with that person never being identified.

And, it would seem, that particular bullet fragment which Mr. Landis handled never came to light as evidence either. But we must keep in mind that a lot of tiny fragments from the fatal head shot that were probably scattered all over the car and in Dealey Plaza were never introduced as official evidence either. After all, more than half of the bullet that struck President Kennedy in the head was never found or recovered at all.

But now, in 2023, for some unknown reason, that bullet fragment (which he gave to someone else at Parkland on 11/22/63) has now been embellished by Mr. Landis and has morphed into a whole bullet (the CE399 "stretcher bullet" or so-called "magic bullet"), with Landis embellishing things further by also now saying he took that whole bullet into the hospital himself and placed it on JFK's stretcher in the emergency room.

So, in my opinion, Mr. Landis' current story probably does contain a layer of truth in it, which is very common among witnesses who have, shall we say, enhanced or added things to their assassination stories over the years (with Jean Hill, Roger Craig, and Buell Wesley Frazier coming to mind as three such examples).

I think Paul Landis probably did see (and perhaps also pick up) a small bullet fragment in the limousine. That's the "layer of truth" that exists in his account. And the two newspaper articles from the 1980s cited HERE tend to confirm that "layer of truth". But the remainder of Landis' current 2023 story just simply cannot be believed, in my opinion."

-- DVP; September 13, 2023

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Michael Griffith]

22 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Allow me to re-post something I said five days ago.....

[Quote On:]

"FWIW....

Here's what I think happened....

Paul Landis really did see and pick up a bullet fragment (not a whole bullet) off of the back seat of the Presidential limousine at Parkland Hospital on November 22, 1963. He then might very well have given that fragment to someone else nearby, with that person never being identified.

And, it would seem, that particular bullet fragment which Mr. Landis handled never came to light as evidence either. But we must keep in mind that a lot of tiny fragments from the fatal head shot that were probably scattered all over the car and in Dealey Plaza were never introduced as official evidence either. After all, more than half of the bullet that struck President Kennedy in the head was never found or recovered at all.

But now, in 2023, for some unknown reason, that bullet fragment (which he gave to someone else at Parkland on 11/22/63) has now been embellished by Mr. Landis and has morphed into a whole bullet (the CE399 "stretcher bullet" or so-called "magic bullet"), with Landis embellishing things further by also now saying he took that whole bullet into the hospital himself and placed it on JFK's stretcher in the emergency room.

So, in my opinion, Mr. Landis' current story probably does contain a layer of truth in it, which is very common among witnesses who have, shall we say, enhanced or added things to their assassination stories over the years (with Jean Hill, Roger Craig, and Buell Wesley Frazier coming to mind as three such examples).

I think Paul Landis probably did see (and perhaps also pick up) a small bullet fragment in the limousine. That's the "layer of truth" that exists in his account. And the two newspaper articles from the 1980s cited HERE tend to confirm that "layer of truth". But the remainder of Landis' current 2023 story just simply cannot be believed, in my opinion."

-- DVP; September 13, 2023

So, according to you, Landis is just lying when he says that he purposely did not mention the bullet earlier and that he is revealing it now because he believes its existence should be known.

The lone-gunman theory cannot even explain the one back-seat fragment that you are willing to acknowledge. The nose and tail of the head-shot bullet were found on the floor in the front seat. Two more fragments were acknowledged as having been removed from JFK's head during the autopsy, and the autopsy x-rays show a snowstorm of dozens of tiny fragments in the right-front part of the skull. Plus, HSCA radiologic experts detected another fragment in the back of the skull at least 1 cm from the now-debunked cowlick entry site, and there's no way that an FMJ bullet could have deposited that fragment.

And shall we mention the deformed bullet that two Navy petty officers found in the rear of the limo and that Dr. Young saw before it was handed to Dr. Humes? 

Just admit it: More than one gunman fired at JFK.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Michael Griffith