Bang up job, folks...

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

CV-

You have the last word. 

If you could be so kind, could you identify the composition of the "ice" bullet? 

And what would be the weight of the "ice" bullet? 

If you can’t bother to read the material I link why would I bother with you?

[W. Niederhut]

It's kind of a shame that this thread devolved into yet another debate about JFK's shirt, because the 2017 survey data about JFK assassination beliefs in the U.S. raises some interesting sociological questions.

Most People Believe In JFK Conspiracy Theories | FiveThirtyEight

Beliefs about whether Oswald was a Lone Nut (WCR) were not statistically differentiated by age, gender, or even political party affiliation.

But Blacks and Hispanics were more likely to believe (correctly) that JFK was murdered by a conspiracy.

And there was an odd, statistically significant, difference in beliefs between white college graduates and white non-college grads.

It seems counter-intuitive that the more highly "educated" college grads would be more delusional about the fraudulent Warren Commission Report (48%) than non-college grads (33%.)

My theory is that this anomaly is a result of the college grads being more effectively duped by "sophisticated" WCR propaganda in "reputable" newspapers, (NYT, WaPo, et.al.) magazines, and other mass media.

I mentioned some personal observations about several highly-educated people telling me that they consider Oliver Stone to be a "flake," (based, presumably, on articles that they have read in "high end" news sources like NYT.)

It's a classic case of the old adage that, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Here's a testable hypothetical.

How many college grads in the U.S. understand the pervasive, powerful influence of CIA propaganda in the mainstream media -- including prestigious newspapers like NYT and WaPo-- since the 1940s?

I told a friend of mine several years ago that, IMO, understanding the Operation Mockingbird phenomenon in the U.S. media is a kind of Rosetta Stone for the proper interpretation of America's "Untold History."

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Sandy Larsen]

11 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

It seems counter-intuitive that the more highly "educated" college grads would be more delusional about the fraudulent Warren Commission Report (48%) than non-college grads (33%.)

 

What I believe is that when a person gets his undergraduate degree, he thinks of himself as being smarter than his average neighbors. He's more likely to become an atheist because smart people don't believe in fairy tales. Same thing with conspiracy theories.... other fairy tales that only average people believe.

The ones who continue on to advanced degrees realize that they aren't as smart as they'd thought the are. They reconsider religion and wonder if there might be something to it. After all, even the big bang theory is rather hard to believe. (Everything came from nothing??) One shouldn't summarily dismiss conspiracy theories without even studying them. Etc.

I think that something similar happened to Mike Lindell, The Pillow Guy. Except that it wasn't getting an undergraduate degree that turned him into a know-it-all. It was his first successful business. I'll never forget how excited he got when he "discovered" the (fake) plot that resulted in Dominion rigging their voting machines in Biden's favor. Of course, he had just merely read the same false conspiracy theory that thousand of others had read.

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

13 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

If you can’t bother to read the material I link why would I bother with you?

I ask an earnest question:

 

If you could be so kind, could you identify the composition of the "ice" bullet? 

And what would be the weight of the "ice" bullet? 

[Cliff Varnell]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I ask an earnest question:

I’ve experienced enough bad faith.

[Benjamin Cole]

2 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

I’ve experienced enough bad faith.

I take it you do not know the composition of the putative "ice" bullet, and have not bothered to calculate what the weight of a "ice" bullet would be.

Nor have you tried to determine if ever experienced forensic pathologists have encountered bodies  in which they find a bullet pathway is blocked by shifting muscles or organs, and thus cannot be probed. 

These are earnest observations. No bad faith. 

If you posit a theory regarding the JFKA, you have to be able to tolerate---no, encourage---reasonable inquiries and debate. 

 

 

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I take it you do not know the composition of the putative "ice" bullet, and have not bothered to calculate what the weight of a "ice" bullet would be.

Nor have you tried to determine if ever experienced forensic pathologists have encountered bodies  in which they find a bullet pathway is blocked by shifting muscles or organs, and thus cannot be probed. 

These are earnest observations. No bad faith. 

If you posit a theory regarding the JFKA, you have to be able to tolerate---no, encourage---reasonable inquiries and debate. 

 

 

It’s the height of bad faith to repeatedly ask questions already answered again and again.  

This is the third or forth time for this —

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/6e/2c/f1/b7f57725cf38b1/US6705194.pdf

<q>

EXAMPLE 4

The fluid consists of the medicine to be injected into the tissue of the patient. The ice slug containing the exact amount of the medicine to be injected is expelled from the gun so it penetrates into the patent [sic?] body at a precisely controlled site and the medicine is delivered to a patient.

EXAMPLE 5

The invented device is used as a traceless gun, firing lethal or non-lethal bullets.  After impacting the surface of the substrate the ice bullet is melted and no traces of the bullet remains. </q>

You refuse to read the material posted regarding a technology you can’t wrap your head around.

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Nor have you tried to determine if ever experienced forensic pathologists have encountered bodies  in which they find a bullet pathway is blocked by shifting muscles or organs, and thus cannot be probed.

More bad faith.

The bullet holes in the clothes are too low for the bullet to transit.

Op Mock Adjacent shills pretend the physical evidence doesn’t exist.

[Cliff Varnell]

On 9/21/2023 at 3:56 PM, W. Niederhut said:

This is a fascinating data Cliff.

I would draw people's attention to the rather surprising fact that MORE college graduates (48%) than non-graduates (33%) in this 2017 survey believed the LONE NUT theory!

Let’s take a look at the 2001 Gallup poll which found 81 - 13 to the conspiracy side.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1813/Most-Americans-Believe-Oswald-Conspired-Others-Kill-JFK.aspx

<quote on>

Interestingly, those with more formal education tend to have the lowest belief in a possible conspiracy in the JFK assassination. Among those with a post-graduate education, 71% believe others were involved in the assassination, compared with 78% among those with some college education and 84% among those with a H.S. education or less.  </q>

That’s an incredible drop in 16 years.

On 9/21/2023 at 3:56 PM, W. Niederhut said:

More college grads are likely to regularly read prestigious news sources-- e.g., New York Times, Washington Post, etc.-- which have been at the forefront of the Operation Mockingbird disinformation.

After 2001?  ABC ran a less-than-full-throated Oswald Did It Alone special in 2003.  What else from The NY Times et al would spur such a huge drop among the higher educated?

During the 90’s, when the MSM was most virulently Lone Nut (in that decade on three occasions I read Oswald acted alone — in the SF Chronicle Sporting Green), polls show skepticism of the Official Story at it’s highest.

In this century it’s Internet/social media with the widest reach.  The JFKA CT rabbit holes appear to be off-putting.

[Cory Santos]

7 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Let’s take a look at the 2001 Gallup poll which found 81 - 13 to the conspiracy side.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1813/Most-Americans-Believe-Oswald-Conspired-Others-Kill-JFK.aspx

<quote on>

Interestingly, those with more formal education tend to have the lowest belief in a possible conspiracy in the JFK assassination. Among those with a post-graduate education, 71% believe others were involved in the assassination, compared with 78% among those with some college education and 84% among those with a H.S. education or less.  </q>

That’s an incredible drop in 16 years.

After 2001?  ABC ran a less-than-full-throated Oswald Did It Alone special in 2003.  What else from The NY Times et al would spur such a huge drop among the higher educated?

During the 90’s, when the MSM was most virulently Lone Nut (in that decade on three occasions I read Oswald acted alone — in the SF Chronicle Sporting Green), polls show skepticism of the Official Story at it’s highest.

In this century it’s Internet/social media with the widest reach.  The JFKA CT rabbit holes appear to be off-putting.

Cliff, as I ponder great things on a Saturday before the game-which you are too good to watch- I present you this query:   Has the JFK fan boy base in the research community affected the national poling and interest in the truth?

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Cory Santos said:

Cliff, as I ponder great things on a Saturday before the game-which you are too good to watch- I present you this query:   Has the JFK fan boy base in the research community affected the national poling and interest in the truth?

I haven’t seen any data to indicate that.  I think where JFK blind-love has impact is in the views of historians.

[Cory Santos]

3 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

I haven’t seen any data to indicate that.  I think where JFK blind-love has impact is in the views of historians.

Really do tell!    Are you suggesting that because these JFK fanboys never see anything wrong that JFK did or even criticize him on anything, that in a sense they see him as pure good and therefore the motivation to get him was merely that the alleged conspirators were simply evil?  Thus, this bias is hurting their ultimate conspiratorial views because if evil is all it took for motivation the LHO could have motivation if he was simply evil.  Was it that simple?

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Cory Santos said:

Really do tell!    Are you suggesting that because these JFK fanboys never see anything wrong that JFK did or even criticize him on anything, that in a sense they see him as pure good and therefore the motivation to get him was merely that the alleged conspirators were simply evil?  Thus, this bias is hurting their ultimate conspiratorial views because if evil is all it took for motivation the LHO could have motivation if he was simply evil.  Was it that simple?

Yes.  Regime change plots are evil whether they were directed at JFK or by him.

[Cliff Varnell]

On 9/22/2023 at 9:03 AM, W. Niederhut said:

It's kind of a shame that this thread devolved into yet another debate about JFK's shirt,

There’s been no debate about the clothing evidence in this thread.  The bullet holes in the clothes are too low for the SBT — an unchallenged fact.

Devolved?  The title of this thread is a sarcastic back-of-my-hand to the JFKA Critical Community for its collective failure to grasp the significance of physical evidence in a cold case murder investigation.

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

There’s been no debate about the clothing evidence in this thread.  The bullet holes in the clothes are too low for the SBT — an unchallenged fact.

Devolved?  The title of this thread is a sarcastic back-of-my-hand to the JFKA Critical Community for its collective failure to grasp the significance of physical evidence in a cold case murder investigation.

Yes, devolution.

Here we have a rare opportunity to discuss the impact of 60 years of CIA-funded disinformation in the U.S. mainstream media promoting the WCR, yet 90% of the thread ends up focusing on more of the endless, redundant forum minutiae about ballistics, autopsy evidence, etc. 

Geez... Don't we all know by now that JFK was murdered by a head shot from the Grassy Knoll area?

The only guys who still dispute that are Fred Litwin and the professional WCR ad men.

Yet, people keep whipping that dead horse.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by W. Niederhut