Billy Lovelady is NOT leaning over (much) in Altgens 6.

[Alan Ford]

48 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I'll bet that even Jeremy and the boys at ROKC could believe that somebody monkeyed around with the the Darnell clip at the SFM. If they discovered that Hackerott was right about the feminine collar.

 

Indeed so. Their capacity for doublethink is impressive!

[Paul Rigby]

For the benefit of those new to the debate, the suspicion that Doorman, as the motorcade passed the TSBD, was holding something other than a drink, arose no later than late February 1964, according to the gadfly first generation researcher Jones Harris, as he recalled in an interview with Jim Fetzer, broadcast, as part of the latter’s Real Deal series, on 21 December 2012.

Harris, his curiosity piqued by the version of Altgens 6 which had appeared in Four Dark Days, a hastily compiled photographic record of the assassination published in December 1963, acquired two copies of the same photo from Wide World Pictures, a commercial arm of Altgens’ employer, the Associated Press*. He then sent one of the two – oddly, the one AP was happy to sell him, not the better one he had so much trouble obtaining - to the Bernard Hoffman Laboratory in New York. There, Hoffman, by common consent an outstanding figure in his field**, produced enlargements of the entrance to the TSBD, which he then subjected to examination by microscope. According to Harris, “…in the blow-ups that Hoffman made, this hand had a card in it that was sort of being shown, as though the person in the doorway was not only looking out and everything, but had his hand out with a card in the palm of the hand. It was very vague at that point, but you could clearly see the edge outline that the hand held a card. I just pass that on to you for what it's worth.”

The interview continued: 

Jim Fetzer: Which hand would this be? I mean, in the doorway.

Jones Harris: He's pretty well pinned to his right. I would say it was his left hand. The left hand is reaching down in front of even the profile of a black man that's at mid torso, which is one of the very peculiar features. It's just in the vicinity of that. It couldn't be the black man's hand, obviously, and the white man off to the left with his elbows and so forth. It couldn't be his hand. It looked to us as though that was the hand of the man in the doorway, and I remember we asked Lovelady about the thing, and he said he didn't remember anything like that and so forth and so on, so there was no point trying to pursue that, because it was quite vague even in the blow-up.

All of which is surpassing strange, as the CBS-TV version of Altgens 6, as broadcast at circa 1830hrs on 22 November, clearly showed that the limb in question belonged to Carl Jones, not Oswald. Which version of Altgens 6 had AP sold to Harris? How had a limb so clearly differentiated from Doorman’s shirt on television become an integrated component of Doorman’s shirt under Hoffman’s microscope a matter of months later?

The mystery becomes even stranger when one considers that both the Associated Press and CBS shared the two most powerful motives media organisations could possess for disseminating Altgens 6 as quickly and in as finer form as they could: money and reputation. In Altgens 6, the single-most dramatic still photograph of the assassination, the AP had stolen a march on its major rival, UPI, and handed a scoop to its customers, most importantly, television broadcasters, a growing market at a time when a large traditional mainstay, afternoon newspapers, were falling like skittles. CBS, in its turn, was offered a chance to demonstrate the superiority, in speed and quality, of its news-gathering, particularly over industry-leading NBC. So what happened? It took nearly four and half hours for an image transmitted from Dallas at 1pm CST to appear on CBS at circa 1830hrs EST. How to account for such a delay, one so contrary to the commercial and reputational interests of both? The answer almost certainly lies in the strong relationship of both to the CIA, which had every incentive to delay - for scrutiny, manipulation, or erasure - images every bit as much as text; and the CIA’s necessarily obsessive interest in its patsy’s locations and movements during the assassination.

CBS’s closeness to Langley is well-documented. Not so the AP. There is sufficient available material, nevertheless, to confirm what common-sense would suggest: the ties between AP and CIA were profound, enduring, and used to facilitate coups. Consider the case of the Agency’s overthrow of Iran’s Mossadegh in 1953.  Here we find that Archie Roosevelt “sent a message through CIA headquarters to the New York office of the Associated Press explaining what the Shah had done. The Associated Press then disseminated this information, and it was later picked up by the Iranian newspapers.” Much of this collaboration was unconcealed, as in the case of Don Schwind, the AP man on the ground, through whom the CIA ran many of its tightly controlled reports on events to the US public. He was granted “the use of Tehran radio facilities, owned by the government, to broadcast direct dispatches to the AP Monitoring facilities in London.”***

Both the AP and UPI were used extensively to heighten tensions with Cuba during JFK’s presidency:   “On August 3, 1961, wire services (using suppositions shared by the police) inaccurately reported that two Cubans were in the process of hijacking an American jet airliner in Texas. Members of Congress kept running back to the tickers all afternoon and some worked themselves into such fury that they proposed resolutions all but declaring war on Cuba. The hijackers turned out to be a pair of Americans from Arizona.” Two years later, in the summer of 1963, the pair had again between used by CIA to promote an entirely false story about Cuba, rushing  “to the teletypes with bulletins quoting the Cuban Revolutionary Council in Miami as saying that commandos had landed in Cuba in an invasion effort.” This latter fabrication occasioned a public apology from UPI’s managing editor, who conceded that ‘on the basis of experience with announcements from the exiles, the services should not have been so eager to shoot from the hip.’”

Perhaps the best indictment of the wire-services' subservience to the CIA came from the latter. The dispatch merits quoting in full:

010326 CIA Boasts of Manipulating News

http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y01/mar01/26e1.htm

Yahoo! March 26, 2001

HAVANA, 24 (AP) - The CIA boasted in a recently declassified section of its propaganda plan for the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba 40 years ago that it would be able to place stories about the operation "directly on international wire services.''

"Should military action be extended over a long period of time, the radio and leaflet operations previously described will be augmented by all the regular propaganda apparatus,'' read the document, which was shown for the first time Friday to key figures in the Bay of Pigs drama, who gathered here this week to compare notes.

"This will include press placement throughout the hemisphere through CIA assets; through Miami exile contacts with Florida papers; and through Headquarters placement directly on international wire services,'' read the newly declassified sections of the propaganda plan passed among conference participants in Havana.

The document did not indicate how the Central Intelligence Agency (news - web sites) would accomplish getting its information on news wires.

Much of the propaganda plan had previously been declassified in large part as an attachment to the government's Taylor Commission report, which examined the U.S. role in the April 17-19, 1961 armed invasion of Cuba by CIA-trained exiles.

The three-day invasion ended in disaster. Without U.S. air support and running short of ammunition, more than 1,000 invaders were captured. Another 100 invaders and 151 defenders died.

The propaganda plan was also included in a briefing book supplied to conference participants. But a section on wire services was blacked out, leaving it unreadable, even though it had been declassified through the efforts of the National Security Archive at George Washington University, one of the conference organizers.

Jon Ellington [sic: should read Elliston - PR], a former National Archive Security employee who used the Freedom of Information Act to gather U.S. documents for his book "PsyWar on Cuba: The Declassified History of U.S. Anti-Castro Propaganda,'' said he received the more complete version of the document upon request from the John F. Kennedy Library in Boston.

"It may have been a mistake,'' Ellington said of the passages that were not blacked out." This shows how far they were willing to go, even to reach a domestic audience.''

The document said that the placement of news stories on the international wire services "deserves special comment.''

"For in spite of all elaborate planning to reach the Cuban people and the rest of the world directly, it is the output of the established wire services which most effectively do the job,'' it said. "One report on United Press International, for example, will be repeated on nearly every radio station and most of the newspapers of the Caribbean area. UPI was the only news agency mentioned by name.

"Because of the importance of this, military planners should be aware of Headquarters capability of placing items directly on the wire service tickers,'' the document continued.

"During a period of fighting, especially in the first few days,'' the document said, "we will be in a position to place specific messages and propaganda lines. This will be enormously important in influencing the actions of Cuban government leaders and stimulating sympathetic support of the patriotic rebellion from other countries.''

Those opposed to any suggestion of photographic manipulation in this case have long done signal service to the CIA by assiduously masking the integration of the US media into Langley’s totalitarian system. Those interested in the truth of the matter need have no such reservations.

Quote

 

*”When it comes to the Associated Press, the clearest statement I have read was made by Charles Edward Russell in "Pearson's Magazine," April, 1914:

About nine hundred daily newspapers in the United States, comprising the great majority of the journals of influence and circulation, receive and print the news dispatches of the Associated Press. This means that concerning any event of importance an identical dispatch is printed about fifteen million times and may be read by thirty million persons. According to the construction and wording of that dispatch, so will be the impression these thirty million persons will receive, and the opinion they will form and pass along to others.

Here is the most tremendous engine for Power that ever existed in this world. If you can conceive all that Power ever wielded by the great autocrats of history, by the Alexanders, Caesars, Tamburlaines, Kubla Khans and Napoleons, to be massed together into one vast unit of Power, even this would be less than the Power now wielded by the Associated Press.”

Charles Edward Russell, Pearson’s Magazine, April 1914, from Upton Sinclair’s The Brass Check, 243

 **In the same interview with Fetzer, Harris paid tribute to Hoffman as “a tremendous craftsman, tremendous craftsman. His work was so good that NASA was sending him stuff to develop up in New York and everything like that, so he was a perfectly wonderful man.” Hoffman’s Wikipedia entry suggests Harris’ estimation of Hoffman’s abilities was no exaggeration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Hoffman

***AP, “Royalists Oust Mossadegh,” The Daily Iowan, Thursday, August 20, 1953, 2

http://dailyiowan.lib.uiowa.edu/DI/1953/di1953-08-20.pdf

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

Thanks Paul.

The "touch up artists" (wink wink) were at it again.

Provenance!!!!

[Michael Crane]

Oswald was probably outside somewhere other than the steps and probably went back inside after the film stops.

He might of heard the early gunshots and scrambled back into the building.Hell,he might have scrambled away.

A unpopular opinion I know.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Alan Ford]

17 hours ago, Paul Rigby said:

It took nearly four and half hours for an image transmitted from Dallas at 1pm CST to appear on CBS at circa 1830hrs EST. How to account for such a delay, one so contrary to the commercial and reputational interests of both?

This------------------------------N.B.!

According to sensibility, one of two answers will be given:

1. There were debates at CBS as to the tastelessness of showing an image of the stricken Pres. Kennedy

2. Something was noticed in the image and a 'request' came through to hold off on airing it pending arrival of a better version.

This is the image that finally was shown by Mr. Cronkite:

[Chris Davidson]

On 10/29/2023 at 2:58 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Sandy,

I'll stick with more of his shoulder should appear, which should be blocking out some of the white shirt? area.

 

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

Sandy Larsen writes:

Quote

What I've said is that that arm belongs to Carl Jones. And that, for some reason, Groden's copy grew a plaid pattern.

But if nefarious alteration isn't the "some reason" that caused Groden's copy to grow a plaid pattern, what is?

What needs to be explained is the fact that, in a version of Altgens 6 which includes a wider tonal range and more detail than all the other versions we've seen here, the pattern on the sleeve matches the pattern on the front of the shirt, as well as on the sleeves of Lovelady's shirt that are visible in other images. A perfectly obvious explanation is available: the Groden image depicts the actual pattern on Lovelady's shirt.

Until Sandy comes up with a plausible, innocent explanation of how "Groden's copy grew a plaid pattern", the only options are that either (a) the Groden image was deliberately faked or (b) it represents what Lovelady's shirt actually looked like. And since no-one has come close to demonstrating that Groden's image was faked, we can rule out option (a).

But!

It gets worse. Paul Rigby writes:

Quote

the CBS-TV version of Altgens 6, as broadcast at circa 1830hrs on 22 November, clearly showed that the limb in question belonged to Carl Jones, not Oswald. ... How had a limb so clearly differentiated from Doorman’s shirt on television become an integrated component of Doorman’s shirt ...?

Attention!

Do Sandy and Alan realise what they've done? Someone who appears to believe in the old Doorman nonsense (i.e. that the figure in Altgens 6 which every sane person recognises to be Billy Lovelady is actually Lee Oswald, but with Lovelady's head pasted on it) is on the loose!

As Andrej Stancak pointed out on the 'those front steps' thread, this new dose of 'Altgens 6 is a fake' craziness is turning the forum into a laughing stock. With the sixtieth anniversary approaching, and newspaper pundits no doubt looking for material to justify articles claiming that all conspiracy theorists are crazy, let's hope they don't stumble across either of these threads.

[Alan Ford]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

With the sixtieth anniversary approaching, and newspaper pundits no doubt looking for material to justify articles claiming that all conspiracy theorists are crazy, let's hope they don't stumble across either of these threads.

It's certainly a worry alright. I can just see an MSM journalist writing a for-laughs story on how a bunch of conspiracy theorists who had their pet theory of LHO on the steps go up in smoke are now muttering dark accusations of nefarious alteration of images by the Sixth Floor Museum.

That would reflect so badly on the rest of us.

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

But if nefarious alteration isn't the "some reason" that caused Groden's copy to grow a plaid pattern, what is?

 

Maybe Groden was on your side, that the shirt is (or should be) plaid. And so he added the plaid.

Or maybe not. Maybe there was something nefarious going on. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

 

4 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Attention!

Do Sandy and Alan realise what they've done? Someone who appears to believe in the old Doorman nonsense (i.e. that the figure in Altgens 6 which every sane person recognises to be Billy Lovelady is actually Lee Oswald, but with Lovelady's head pasted on it) is on the loose!

 

And you're worried about that because?

Oh that's right. You feel the need to intimidate and discredit anybody who doesn't think like you.

 

4 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

As Andrej Stancak pointed out on the 'those front steps' thread, this new dose of 'Altgens 6 is a fake' craziness is turning the forum into a laughing stock.

 

Only amongst the guys at ROKC, who can be counted on one hand.

 

[Pat Speer]

5 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Sandy Larsen writes:

But if nefarious alteration isn't the "some reason" that caused Groden's copy to grow a plaid pattern, what is?

What needs to be explained is the fact that, in a version of Altgens 6 which includes a wider tonal range and more detail than all the other versions we've seen here, the pattern on the sleeve matches the pattern on the front of the shirt, as well as on the sleeves of Lovelady's shirt that are visible in other images. A perfectly obvious explanation is available: the Groden image depicts the actual pattern on Lovelady's shirt.

Until Sandy comes up with a plausible, innocent explanation of how "Groden's copy grew a plaid pattern", the only options are that either (a) the Groden image was deliberately faked or (b) it represents what Lovelady's shirt actually looked like. And since no-one has come close to demonstrating that Groden's image was faked, we can rule out option (a).

But!

It gets worse. Paul Rigby writes:

Attention!

Do Sandy and Alan realise what they've done? Someone who appears to believe in the old Doorman nonsense (i.e. that the figure in Altgens 6 which every sane person recognises to be Billy Lovelady is actually Lee Oswald, but with Lovelady's head pasted on it) is on the loose!

As Andrej Stancak pointed out on the 'those front steps' thread, this new dose of 'Altgens 6 is a fake' craziness is turning the forum into a laughing stock. With the sixtieth anniversary approaching, and newspaper pundits no doubt looking for material to justify articles claiming that all conspiracy theorists are crazy, let's hope they don't stumble across either of these threads.

I get it, Jeremy. It doesn't pass a quick smell test. And opens a Pandora's box. 

But here are some additional points. 

1. The contention is that Lovelady was partially obstructed by an arm, and that this arm was re-touched to match its background. Lovelady. This gives us reason to believe the earliest version shown on CBS, and printed in some papers, was accurate. As this version shows Lovelady, it is simultaneously an argument AGAINST the photo's ever showing Oswald. 

2. The reasons for this re-touch is a separate question. But the fact is that the media routinely re-touched images for unclear reasons because...because...they are capitalists and believe they have a God-given right to exploit THEIR material in any fashion of their choosing to maximize PROFIT. There is no evidence any of this had anything to do with the CIA, but Rigby is correct in that many if not most news agencies would gladly re-touch a photo here and there as part of their ongoing cooperation with what they believed were the good guys--the forces for capitalism and maximum profit. Heck, they might even have considered it their moral and fiduciary duty. 

3. We know as well--from the behavior of CBS and NBC,, etc--that the media considers their original source material an important company asset, and is extremely reluctant to share this asset with researchers or historians. I was a member of the Screen Writers Guild, and got to know a bit about screenwriting. One of the somewhat shocking facts I learned in that world is that the major Hollywood Studios--to this day--sit on a treasure trove of unpublished screenplays, alternate screenplays, and even alternate movie edits from great talents such as William Faulkner, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Dorothy Parker, Orson Welles, etc. They are THEIR property. They think that maybe someday some Spielberg or Scorsese will cough up some dough to get these released, and hold them hostage until that day. The news media is no different. As a consequence it is highly unlikely Groden has first gen prints of anything--that kind of access just isn't provided. What he has are prints made from copies--official copies which may very well vary from the rarely-seen--perhaps not seen for decades--originals. 

[Chris Davidson]

11 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

 

The "Five o Clock" football shadow among other interesting hair aspects.

Lee, tilt the head a little upward and slightly to your right.

[Alan Ford]

Ain't it funny how the 'worthless' Cronkite version boasts greater definition in some respects than the 'first gen' (~grin~) Groden version..................

[Sandy Larsen]

Why is Carl Jones's head missing in the Altgens 6 photo shown by Walter Cronkite early (on the day of the assassination?)? But is present in all other extant copies, including Groden's?

   

 

[Alan Ford]

8 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Why is Carl Jones's head missing in the Altgens 6 photo shown by Walter Cronkite early (on the day of the assassination?)? But is present in all other extant copies, including Groden's?

   

 

And why do we see this?

And, under the near-horizontal object here, what looks for all the world like a continuation of the Lovelady tshirt. AI-level guesswork--------------by 1963 wirephoto technology!

[Sandy Larsen]

33 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

And why do we see this?

And, under the near-horizontal object here, what looks for all the world like a continuation of the Lovelady tshirt. AI-level guesswork--------------by 1963 wirephoto technology!

 

 

To me the oranged thing looks like Carl Jones's arm and hand. It's light-colored for the same reason much of the black faces are white. (Reflection of the sun?) But his pushed back cuffs are the correct shade of gray.

I have no idea what the pea-greened thing is.