Wesley Buell Frazier needs to be asked some serious questions!

[Tom Gram]

7 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Tom this is interesting. But would not “Willie” Randle who the postmaster said Mrs. Roberts had told him had driven Oswald to work be, not Linnie, not Bill Randle, but a misunderstanding/mishearing of “Wesley” (Frazier)? The same postmaster “stated he understood both Randle and Oswald were employed by the Texas School Book Depository” (from the document of your link). Obviously a mistake for “Wesley” misheard as “Willie” (and mistakenly assumed last name was Randle) Its all an error in hearsay transmission and there never was any Bill Randle in this. 

I was just referring to the source of Roberts’ information. Schneider said that Roberts told him she heard about the package etc. from Willie Randle. Dorothy Roberts and Linnie were friends. Unless Buell himself spoke with Roberts that afternoon, which seems pretty unlikely, it had to be Linnie who relayed the bag story. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Ron Bulman]

6 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

I was just referring to the source of Roberts’ information. Schneider said that Roberts told him she heard about the package etc. from Willie Randle. Dorothy Roberts and Linnie were friends. Unless Buell himself spoke with Roberts that afternoon, which seems pretty unlikely, it had to be Linnie who relayed the bag story. 

This is important.  Wes and Linnie Mae may have been covering for Willie Randle.  I've a friend who's wife was at school with her daughter that afternoon that insist they had no connection.  

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

Instances of federal intelligence assets being placed in a neighborhood to influence the decision-making of a specific subject would be highly secretive and typically not disclosed to the public. Such operations, if they exist, would likely fall under covert surveillance or influence operations conducted by intelligence agencies.

However, there are historical examples of intelligence agencies conducting surveillance and influence operations:

1. **FBI's COINTELPRO**: The FBI's Counter Intelligence Program (COINTELPRO) in the 1950s to 1970s targeted various domestic political groups and individuals deemed subversive. While COINTELPRO involved a range of tactics, including infiltration, it's not clear if this extended to agents living in neighborhoods to influence individuals.

2. **CIA Operations**: The CIA has been involved in various covert operations globally, which have included surveillance and influencing political outcomes. While specific methods are often classified, the use of agents in key positions is a known strategy.

3. **Modern Surveillance Techniques**: Modern intelligence agencies often use technology for surveillance, reducing the need for physical presence. This includes electronic monitoring, internet surveillance, and other forms of remote observation.

In conclusion, while historical and current practices of intelligence agencies include surveillance and influence operations, the specific tactic of agents living in neighborhoods to influence an individual's decision-making is not publicly documented and would likely remain classified if it were used.

[Tom Gram]

12 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

This is important.  Wes and Linnie Mae may have been covering for Willie Randle.  I've a friend who's wife was at school with her daughter that afternoon that insist they had no connection.  

It’s an interesting theory, but like Greg D. said, Schneider’s statement regarding TSBD employment suggests that he, Schneider, thought that Roberts was talking about Buell.

According to the Postal Inspectors though, the TSBD statement was Schneider’s alone i.e. it was not a reference to information relayed from Roberts - so all it really tells us is that Schneider didn’t know the Randles very well.

The real questions here are: 1) what information was originally told to Roberts; 2) who did Roberts get it from; and 3) what did Roberts tell Schneider. Roberts was interviewed multiple times, including by the Secret Service, but she was never asked about the hearsay report, at least not on the record. This is more than a little strange, because the SS investigated Bill Randle as an accomplice based on the Postal Inspectors’ report. You’d think they’d want to verify info before launching a full investigation based on third-hand hearsay, but apparently that’s what they did…

Roberts should have known the difference between Buell and Bill, since she was friends with Linnie. It seems like something got garbled by the time the Postal Inspectors arrived at Schneider’s; and I think the most likely scenario is that Linnie told Roberts the same thing she reported to the cops at the Paine’s, but you never know. 

Bill Randle’s whereabouts are completely unaccounted for until he popped up in Austin at 7pm, and a motel manager called the FBI on him because he overheard Randle saying that he knew Oswald personally and that he’d heard rumors JFK would be assassinated if he came to Dallas. Randle denied saying any of this when he was interviewed later by the FBI, and claimed that he’d never met Oswald but knew who he was. 

Austin is a 3-hour drive from Dallas, so it’s not impossible that Randle was in town doing something that day, but it’s hard to prove anything. 

EDIT: This whole angle is discussed in depth in this ROKC thread. Very interesting reading. 

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1456-buell-wesley-frazier-wheres-your-rider-part-a?highlight=rider

Edited November 11, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Joe Bauer]

Speculation about Buell Wesley Frazier being part of any conspiracy has always seemed ridiculous to me.

To those who have had any thoughts that he may have been, I ask you:

When you first saw a 19 year old Frazier being mentioned and photographed in the national press during those days, weeks and months right after 11,22,1963 and even heard him speak, did you and/or do you honestly believe that this young man was sophisticated or intelligent sounding enough to be involved in anything more than a just getting by life with a lowest pay $1.25 an hour job and sleeping on his sister's couch?

The young man had just left his poor rural upbringing for the first time to try and make it in the freeway and tall building big city. His only possession of meaningful and helpful value was a junky older car whose battery failed so many times he would keep it running after he arrived anywhere to hopefully keep it from being dead after work.

His highest fashion clothing piece was a polyester Chinese dragon adorned waist cut jacket.

I'm not mocking Frazier. I always admired what I saw to be genuine honesty and good moral character and especially kindness and generosity, as shown by his friendly and patient mentoring of Oswald on his new job at the TXSBD and even sharing of rides with Oswald without ever asking for a nickel in return.

But involvement with anything more nefarious than his minimum wage book sorting work and couch sharing with his sister and her family is simply ludicrous imo.

Frazier was no young E. Howard Hunt.

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Sandy Larsen]

Since I (firmly) believe that the CIA set up Oswald, Cuba, and Russia to be conspirators for the  assassination (with the goal being to create pretense for an invasion of Cuba)....

I believe that Linnie Mae Randall was a CIA asset and that she was instructed by the CIA to plant the story of the large bag. Just like others were instructed to plant the Mexico City stories (e.g. the $6500 down payment to kill Kennedy).

Or it could be that Ruth Paine's handler asked her to recruit Linnie Mae to do this. And be paid to do so, of course.

As always, my belief is subject to change if a problem is found with it, or a more likely explanation is discovered.

 

[Joe Bauer]

33 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I believe that Linnie Mae Randall was a CIA asset and that she was instructed by the CIA to plant the story of the large bag.

Sandy, you are joking...right?

Too bad Lee Oswald and Wesley Frazier didn't agree to go in together and share an apartment. One closer to Ruth Paine's and Wesley's sister's house than Oswald's dinky, claustrophobic and no privacy room in Oak Cliff.

Wesley F. would have gotten a real bed to sleep on and his sister and her family would have gotten back their couch and privacy in their small home.

Lee O. wouldn't have to take that long bus trip back and forth from the TXSBD every weekday.

What a good thing that arrangement would have been.

 

 

[Tony Krome]

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

sleeping on his sister's couch?

At some point, there were 8 people sleeping in the Randle two bedroom house. Presumably the 2nd bedroom was occupied by Wesley's mother and step-dad (apart from his stay at the medical facility). The main bedroom, I guess, was occupied by both parents, and the 3 daughters were scattered about somehow.  So the couch makes sense, is that something you have heard Wesley mention? 

[Sandy Larsen]

41 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Sandy, you are joking...right?

 

Of course not.

I don't think there was ever a long bag till the coverup artists made one.

I think it's more likely that Ruth Paine was instructed by her CIA handler to offer Linnie May money in return for her fabricating the story of the bag. And that after the coverup began, the coverup artists continued to support the fake story.

 

[Alan Ford]

54 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Of course not.

I don't think there was ever a long bag till the coverup artists made one.

Oh, but there was, Mr. Larsen. It was just found in the wrong place:

[Sandy Larsen]

36 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

Oh, but there was, Mr. Larsen. It was just found in the wrong place:

 

Yes, I know Alan, that you think that is a bag. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong.

But I don't believe that Oswald took that bag to work that day in Frazier's car. The only bag I think he took was the one with his lunch in it.

But I will give that bag (if that's what it is) some consideration.

 

[Alan Ford]

15 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

But I don't believe that Oswald took that bag to work that day in Frazier's car. The only bag I think he took was the one with his lunch in it.

Yes, but we have very good reason indeed to believe that that smaller bag really did contain two curtain rods------------just like he told Mr. Frazier.

Possibly also his lunch. If he told Mr. Frazier he didn't have lunch with him, it was perhaps that he didn't want him tagging on to him around lunchtime------------he had other things to attend to.

The curtain rods were likely for some (now probably unrecoverable-to-history) use in that day's activities. If Mr. Oswald really did deny them in interrogation, then he had very good reason to do so.

[David Von Pein]

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I believe that Linnie Mae Randall [sic] was a CIA asset and that she was instructed by the CIA to plant the story of the large bag. .... Or it could be that Ruth Paine's handler asked her to recruit Linnie Mae to do this. And be paid to do so, of course. As always, my belief is subject to change if a problem is found with it, or a more likely explanation is discovered.

I've got an explanation that is 10,000 times "more likely" to be the accurate one when compared to any alternative theory concerning any alleged conspiratorial involvement of Linnie Mae Randle, Ruth Paine, or Buell Wesley Frazier.

But at this stage in your rapidly developing and accelerating conspiracy-oriented mind, I kind of doubt that my ho-hum explanation would interest you much. But I'll repeat a portion of my thoughts anyway (taken from this 2022 discussion which occurred right here at the EF Forum)....

"There's no way everything connected with the way Lee Oswald got his TSBD job could have been planned in advance by a band of CIA-sponsored housewives on Fifth Street in Irving, Texas." -- DVP; December 18, 2022

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Ron Bulman]

On 11/8/2023 at 8:29 PM, Ron Bulman said:

I've posted the FBI pictures on this before somewhere on here.  They are Warren Commission exhibits.  Of the kitchen window, carport and Wes's car on the other side of it.  From the carport/kitchen door of the slats you can see nothing through.

Here they are.

History Matters Archive - Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XVII, pg (history-matters.com)

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Ron Bulman

[Sandy Larsen]

26 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

"There's no way everything connected with the way Lee Oswald got his TSBD job could have been planned in advance by a band of CIA-sponsored housewives on Fifth Street in Irving, Texas." -- DVP; December 18, 2022

 

Oswald didn't just happen to get a job in the very building he needed to be working at for him to be made the patsy. The CIA plotters had to have gotten him to work there. There is just no way around that fact.