A Lunch on the Line

[Cory Santos]

3 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

To pay for the Raiders and the stadium? My wallet's quite small.  $800 to see them this year especially, they suck, again, is a ridiculous waste of money.  I love Madden, Stabler, Lamonica and more.  But I'm not an ambulance chaser with money to waste. 

No you’re not a lawyer.  You are an idiot with a lack of common sense apparently.  That’s too bad.  

[Ron Bulman]

1 minute ago, Cory Santos said:

No you’re not a lawyer.  You are an idiot with a lack of common sense apparently.  That’s too bad.  

Cory, I'm, sorry I offended you with the ambulance chaser comment.  The Raiders do suck.  I like to think I have a sense of common decency.  I was recently asked if I would like to become an administrator of this site, after another one needed to leave.  Learning the ropes, the guidelines of the forum specifically address the use of terms, using idiot as an example.  Using it personally directed at another member is a one day suspension from posting.  

Cliff is right.  Hole in the suit coat and shirt at T-3 is absolutely the first evidence that the Magic, Pristine bullet is bullshit.  Whether anyone here or in the msm acknowledges it or not, he deserves a prime rib, imho.   

[Cory Santos]

1 minute ago, Ron Bulman said:

Cory, I'm, sorry I offended you with the ambulance chaser comment.  The Raiders do suck.  I like to think I have a sense of common decency.  I was recently asked if I would like to become an administrator of this site, after another one needed to leave.  Learning the ropes, the guidelines of the forum specifically address the use of terms, using idiot as an example.  Using it personally directed at another member is a one day suspension from posting.  

Cliff is right.  Hole in the suit coat and shirt at T-3 is absolutely the first evidence that the Magic, Pristine bullet is bullshit.  Whether anyone here or in the msm acknowledges it or not, he deserves a prime rib, imho.   

Water under the bridge then.   Thank you.   All is good.  

[Cliff Varnell]

3 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

To pay for the Raiders and the stadium? My wallet's quite small.  $800 to see them this year especially, they suck, again, is a ridiculous waste of money.  I love Madden, Stabler, Lamonica and more.  

Significant portions of my adulthood were spent at the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum Complex.  Raiders and Warriors season tix.  Didn’t need season tickets for the A‘s; I’m a Giants fan primarily anyway.

I’d love to sell bootleg merch in Vegas —

The Oakland Raiders of Las Vegas

 

[Cliff Varnell]

Cory, the good news is we’re in action on the brat ‘n’ brew with the Reiner/O’Brien podcasts.

In Episode 2 O’Brien brings up the Gaeton Fonzi - Arlen Specter interviews from 1966.

O’BRIEN:  “When Fonzi presses Specter about whether he factored eye witness accounts into the construction of [the SBT],  Specter responded, ‘That’s a good question.  No one has asked me that question.’”

Close, but no brat.  Fonzi pressed Specter about the bullet hole in the shirt, and Specter had a nervous breakdown.

How did they miss that?

[Pat Speer]

On 11/24/2023 at 12:26 AM, Cliff Varnell said:

Significant portions of my adulthood were spent at the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum Complex.  Raiders and Warriors season tix.  Didn’t need season tickets for the A‘s; I’m a Giants fan primarily anyway.

I’d love to sell bootleg merch in Vegas —

The Oakland Raiders of Las Vegas

 

I spent some time at the complex as well, and kinda liked the place. (That BART stop in the parking lot sure was convenient!) I saw Springsteen and U2 in the basketball arena, and Bowie with the Tubes in the Coliseum. I even saw a couple of A's games... Heck, there was a restaurant nearby with a German name where I had a couple of meals. What the heck was the name of that place? Harry's Hofbrau? 

[Roger Odisio]

45 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Cory, the good news is we’re in action on the brat ‘n’ brew with the Reiner/O’Brien podcasts.

In Episode 2 O’Brien brings up the Gaeton Fonzi - Arlen Specter interviews from 1966.

O’BRIEN:  “When Fonzi presses Specter about whether he factored eye witness accounts into the construction of [the SBT],  Specter responded, ‘That’s a good question.  No one has asked me that question.’”

Close, but no brat.  Fonzi pressed Specter about the bullet hole in the shirt, and Specter had a nervous breakdown.

How did they miss that?

O'Brien prefaces their segment on Fonzie and Spector by saying Fonzie's interview with Spector was "hard to follow".   Is that what you think, Cliff?  Fonzie's article seems clear to me, with a devastating conclusion.  .

Then Reiner goes on to lament that in concocting the magic bullet theory, the WC ignored eyewitness accounts, nor did they ask the SS agents who were there.

Reiner never mentions the matching holes in JFK's shirt and jacket that are too low for the bullet to have exited the throat on its way to perform its tricks!  As I mentioned before it was Spector's hemming and hawing, his dissembling and inability to answer the simplest of questions about the holes that really shook Fonzi.  He realized the hoax that was the WR and it sent him on a decades long pursuit for the truth.

I generally agree with Paul that, with the publicity he has generated and many of the details he shines a light on, Reiner is being helpful.  The podcasts are well organized and professionally done to hold the listener's interest   But what a glaring oversight. If anyone can get to Reiner, I'd love to hear his response to the omission.

 

 

 

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Roger Odisio said:

O'Brien prefaces their segment on Fonzie and Spector by saying Fonzie's interview with Spector was "hard to follow".   Is that what you think, Cliff?  Fonzie's article seems clear to me, with a devastating conclusion.  .

Then Reiner goes on to lament that in concocting the magic bullet theory, the WC ignored eyewitness accounts, nor did they ask the SS agents who were there.

Reiner never mentions the matching holes in JFK's shirt and jacket that are too low for the bullet to have exited the throat on its way to perform its tricks!  As I mentioned before it was Spector's hemming and hawing, his dissembling and inability to answer the simplest of questions about the holes that really shook Fonzi.  He realized the hoax that was the WR and it sent him on a decades long pursuit for the truth.

I generally agree with Paul that, with the publicity he has generated and many of the details he shines a light on, Reiner is being helpful.  The podcasts are well organized and professionally done to hold the listener's interest   But what a glaring oversight. If anyone can get to Reiner, I'd love to hear his response to the omission.

My guess is — neither Mantik nor DiEugenio pointed it out.  It’s their omission, too.

Leads me to believe they didn’t read The Last Investigation — Fonzi emphasized the clothing.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

I spent some time at the complex as well, and kinda liked the place. (That BART stop in the parking lot sure was convenient!) I saw Springsteen and U2 in the basketball arena, and Bowie with the Tubes in the Coliseum. I even saw a couple of A's games... Heck, there was a restaurant nearby with a German name where I had a couple of meals. What the heck was the name of that place? Harry's Hofbrau? 

Sam’s Hof Brau.  Been awhile, but I think it’s still there.

[Michael Crane]

Oh man,you guys mention the Oakland Coliseum & fail to mention Bill Graham's Day On The Green?

Shame on you.

I'm only 60,but my first rock concert was 1979 Day On The Green 3 "Monsters of Rock" 

Ted Nugent,AC/DC,Aerosmith & Mahogany Rush.

Tickets were $12.50.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Michael Crane

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Michael Crane said:

Oh man,you guys mention the Oakland Coliseum & fail to mention Bill Graham's Day On The Green?

Shame on you.

I'm only 60,but my first rock concert was 1979 Day On The Green 3 "Monsters of Rock" 

Ted Nugent,AC/DC,Aerosmith & Mahogany Rush.

Tickets were $12.50.

Punk rockers like me didn’t like Bill Graham.

https://www.betweenthecovers.com/pages/books/387542/anti-bill-graham-punk-flyer

<quote on>

Anti-Bill Graham flyer from 1981 distributed after Graham, who had organized a paid Clash show in Berkeley, threatened legal action when the New Youth Organization attempted to put on a "people's" Clash show at a much lower cost. This drew the ire of *Maximumrocknroll* founder Tim Yohannon, who invited Graham to come on air for an interview. His ensuing verbal assault led to Graham storming out in anger. The flyer advertises that appearance on the *Maximumrocknroll* radio show with Graham as an octopus clutching a casket labeled "sixties youth culture" (as well as various music venues). Although Graham was one of rock music's most important and influential promoters, helping the careers of numerous figures through his Fillmore venues and other activities, his business practices were often described as monopolistic. This flyers illustrate that concern, and also demonstrates hardcore punk's break with the hippie movement as clearly as any printed material we've seen. 

</q>

I went to the Bill Graham Clash show, but missed the renegade Clash show at the Temple Beautiful.  Early 1979.
 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Sam’s Hof Brau.  Been awhile, but I think it’s still there.

That's right. Sam's. I remembered the Hofbrau and saw something about a Harry's Hofbrau online, and thought that might have been it. But it was definitely Sam's. 

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Punk rockers like me didn’t like Bill Graham.

Aye.  I went to a Grateful Dead show at the Coliseum Arena New Year’s Eve 1979.  I worked my way close to the stage.  Everyone sat waiting for the Dead, except me.  Bill came out and I flipped him off.  I know he saw me.  He ground his jaws.

His death was spectacular.  His helicopter crashed into a power pole in the fog.  It hung vertically, like Rocknroll Christ on the cross.

When Dave McGowan came out with his ridiculous take on the counter-culture origin story, I stood up for Bill.  McGowan’s tale posited Laurel Canyon as the birthplace of the hippie scene.  

Laurel Canyon was the birthplace of MOR soft rock.

San Francisco was the birthplace of the counter-culture thanks to Neal Cassady, Ken Kesey, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service — and Bill Graham.

[Pat Speer]

37 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Aye.  I went to a Grateful Dead show at the Coliseum Arena New Year’s Eve 1979.  I worked my way close to the stage.  Everyone sat waiting for the Dead, except me.  Bill came out and I flipped him off.  I know he saw me.  He ground his jaws.

His death was spectacular.  His helicopter crashed into a power pole in the fog.  It hung vertically, like Rocknroll Christ on the cross.

When Dave McGowan came out with his ridiculous take on the counter-culture origin story, I stood up for Bill.  McGowan’s tale posited Laurel Canyon as the birthplace of the hippie scene.  

Laurel Canyon was the birthplace of MOR soft rock.

San Francisco was the birthplace of the counter-culture thanks to Neal Cassady, Ken Kesey, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service — and Bill Graham.

I would probably give SF the slight edge, but the Sunset Strip, and its offshoot Laurel Canyon, where many of those walking the strip lived, wasn't far behind. The Byrds, The Doors, Love, Buffalo Springfield, Frank Zappa, and so on. 

FWIW, I got to know Peter Albin, the bass player for Big Brother and the Holding Company, when I was in the record industry. He invited me to a 30th anniversary concert at the Whiskey-a-Go-Go. Although it was a retro thing, the bands all played well, and it was a cheap thrill for me to hang out with members of Big Brother, Iron Butterfly, Moby Grape, and It's a Beautiful Day. I was an honorary hippie for a day. 

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

I would probably give SF the slight edge, but the Sunset Strip, and its offshoot Laurel Canyon, where many of those walking the strip lived, wasn't far behind. The Byrds, The Doors, Love, Buffalo Springfield, Frank Zappa, and so on. 

One year behind, according to Michael Vosse, A&M’s “Man on the Sunset Strip.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vosse

I was a tight friend of Michael’s over the last dozen years of his life.  In ‘65, he and his LA friends would regularly go up north to trip and see Quicksilver.  

Sunset didn’t pop until ‘66.