Bart Kamp's Lancer presentation

[Jonathan Cohen]

In case people have not seen it yet, it can be viewed here. This is one of the most thorough, interesting and well-researched presentations I have seen on an assassination-related topic in many years. Regardless of where you stand on the identity of the Prayer Man figure, it's refreshing to see new work presented by people who are serious about resolving key issues in the case without simply claiming every piece of evidence is fake or altered.

[Sandy Larsen]

7 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

In case people have not seen it yet, it can be viewed here. This is one of the most thorough, interesting and well-researched presentations I have seen on an assassination-related topic in many years. Regardless of where you stand on the identity of the Prayer Man figure, it's refreshing to see new work presented by people who are serious about resolving key issues in the case without simply claiming every piece of evidence is fake or altered.

 

You're okay with Bart's contention that Oswald's alibi was that he was outside watching the motorcade? And that that the second floor encounter between Officer Baker and Oswald never took place? That it was all a fabrication?

 

[Michael Griffith]

11 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

In case people have not seen it yet, it can be viewed here. This is one of the most thorough, interesting and well-researched presentations I have seen on an assassination-related topic in many years. Regardless of where you stand on the identity of the Prayer Man figure, it's refreshing to see new work presented by people who are serious about resolving key issues in the case without simply claiming every piece of evidence is fake or altered.

Nobody claims that "every piece of evidence is faked or altered."

I should add that your side never hesitates to claim that pro-conspiracy evidence has been faked or doctored when you cannot deal with it otherwise. I have lost count of how many witnesses you guys have accused of fabricating their stories for fame and/or gain. You guys have accused some of the medical witnesses of purposely producing false wound diagrams (while claiming that the other troublesome wound diagrams are "mistaken"). You guys claim that the "Dear Mr. Hunt" letter was forged. You guys claim that Jim Garrison and his staff fabricated interview reports (such as Lou Ivon's report on his last interview with David Ferrie). You guys claim that Garrison's office and/or Officer Habighorst fabricated the "Alias: Clay Bertrand" entry on Clay Shaw's fingerprint card. You guys claim that the Lafitte datebook is a hoax. And on and on we could go.

So, it's not that you rule out the possibility of faking and tampering with evidence in all cases. You only rule it out when it comes to evidence you like. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Jonathan Cohen]

5 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

You're okay with Bart's contention that Oswald's alibi was that he was outside watching the motorcade? And that that the second floor encounter between Officer Baker and Oswald never took place? That it was all a fabrication?

 

I never said that. I am merely giving a signal boost to a presentation that is rich with original research and analysis -- the kind of thing we could use a lot more of around here.

[Jonathan Cohen]

1 hour ago, Michael Griffith said:

I should add that your side never hesitates to claim that pro-conspiracy evidence has been faked or doctored when you cannot deal with it otherwise. I have lost count of how many witnesses you guys have accused of fabricating their stories for fame and/or gain. You guys have accused some of the medical witnesses of purposely producing false wound diagrams (while claiming that the other troublesome wound diagrams are "mistaken"). You guys claim that the "Dear Mr. Hunt" letter was forged. You guys claim that Jim Garrison and his staff fabricated interview reports (such as Lou Ivon's report on his last interview with David Ferrie). You guys claim that Garrison's office and/or Officer Habighorst fabricated the "Alias: Clay Bertrand" entry on Clay Shaw's fingerprint card. You guys claim that the Lafitte datebook is a hoax. And on and on we could go.

I'm not going to let you derail this thread. But since you keep making stupid accusations about me, I will point out once again that I don't have a "side" in this case, other than to weed out the "Harvey and Lee"-style, complete and utter nonsense beloved by so many members of this forum.

[Chris Scally]

In his Lancer presentation, and in a recent interview on the Lone Gunman podcast (https://www.spreaker.com/user/thelonegunman/ep-258-more-than-a-fuzzy-picture-w-bart-) Bart Kemp claims that he would be willing to bet his house that the Coke/Coca-Cola bottle which was left at the top of the steps at the entrance to the TSBD would (if found) contain the fingerprints of Oswald/Prayer Man.

But wait ...!

Might not this be the same Coke / Dr. Pepper bottle, but in the hands of DPD Inspector Sawyer? 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Chris Scally

[Pat Speer]

3 hours ago, Chris Scally said:

In his Lancer presentation, and in a recent interview on the Lone Gunman podcast (https://www.spreaker.com/user/thelonegunman/ep-258-more-than-a-fuzzy-picture-w-bart-) Bart Kemp claims that he would be willing to bet his house that the Coke/Coca-Cola bottle which was left at the top of the steps at the entrance to the TSBD would (if found) contain the fingerprints of Oswald/Prayer Man.

But wait ...!

Might not this be the same Coke / Dr. Pepper bottle, but in the hands of DPD Inspector Sawyer? 

Yes, unbelievably, cops get thirsty, too. 

[Steve Roe]

3 hours ago, Chris Scally said:

But wait ...!

Might not this be the same Coke / Dr. Pepper bottle, but in the hands of DPD Inspector Sawyer? 

Chris, this is a great observation. In the Sawyer photo he is clearly holding a bottle of Dr. Pepper. In the other photo, which I enhanced lighting, it clearly shows the iconic white label. So yes, both bottles are Dr. Pepper and most likely was Sawyer's. 

Good to see somebody paying attention. Kamp has made some extremely dubious claims over the years, and now he dismisses the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter which is beyond laughable. 

Good work and let us know when you move into Kamp's home. 

[Chris Scally]

No thanks, Steve! I lived in the UK for 15 great years, but I wouldn't want to go back there now. I enjoy the quiet life in the countryside these days.

[Jonathan Cohen]

31 minutes ago, Chris Scally said:

No thanks, Steve! I lived in the UK for 15 great years, but I wouldn't want to go back there now. I enjoy the quiet life in the countryside these days.

Chris, forgive me if I've missed this in your prior posts, but what's your take on the identity of the Prayer Man figure, and what if anything can be done amongst the research community to help come to a consensus on this point?

[Gerry Down]

Did Sawyer get it out of the same coke machine as Oswald? That seems awfully casual considering the U.S. president has just been assassinated outside the door of the building. 

[Chris Scally]

Jonathan, like you, I don't have a particular side on this issue. There was a time when I thought that access to the original films might provide some better insights, but unless the original films have been properly stored, their value is probably diminishing as every day passes. However, with a body of evidence both for and against Oswald being PM, it is my honest view that unless definitive photo or eyewitness evidence comes to light, the issue will unfortunately remain unresolved.  

[Sandy Larsen]

As Alan Ford has shown, the black guy standing near the west wall of the TSBD steps (I forget his name) was also carrying around a "coke" bottle right after the shooting. In fact he can be seen drinking from it in the early Cronkite version of Altgens 6.

He may have set it down on the steps at some point.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

Speaking of Prayer Man, I used to believe that he is likely to be Oswald. But after Alan Ford brought to light (no pun intended) the "impossible shadow" on Lovelady in the TSBD entrance films, I'm not so sure any more. The only way I can think of for the impossible shadow to be present is that it was painted* by the coverup artists in order to conceal something. What else beside Oswald's presence would they want to conceal?

*The paint job even covers up part of a car antenna! Sloppy painting.

 

[Jonathan Cohen]

42 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 The only way I can think of for the impossible shadow to be present is that it was painted* by the coverup artists in order to conceal something.

I wish you were joking, but I know you aren't. Please explain to all of us here how a conspirator "painted" over the doorway of the Texas School Book Depository? If they would go to those lengths, why not just destroy the entire film? Your insistence on massive fakery of the evidence defies all logic.